So what about the fourth commandment?

[Hawkins]

What is the purpose?

Sabbath shows the sovereignty of God over our world. That's why the Jews observe the Sabbath, Christians attend Sunday services, each and every human rests in the weekends. Virtually all mankind are observing the Sabbath. It all originated from the Sabbath observed by ancient Jews.

That being said, the 10 commandments are the core commandments in a Covenant granted to the Jews.

Matthew 19:18-19 (NIV)
“Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,
honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Jesus didn't skip Sabbath by a mistake. His words are teachings effective in our New Covenant, and with the Jewish Sabbath excluded. In the New Covenant, there's no longer the Law. We rely on faith to be saved instead of our works such as observing Sabbath. All left is we need to follow Jesus Christ teachings and to be Jesus-like.

 

[abcdef]

well of course it is sin.
violation of God's law is sin. (1 John 3:4)

So you MUST perform the ritual of not working on the Sabbath perfectly in order not to sin,

You cannot do it!

 

[KohenMatt]

Then you are guilty of sin and cannot enter into His rest.

What's the difference between breaking one of the laws of the OT and one of Jesus' commands?

 

[KohenMatt]

So you MUST perform the ritual of not working on the Sabbath perfectly in order not to sin,

You cannot do it!

Why not? What are the rules and regulations of the Sabbath?

 

[abcdef]

Why not? What are the rules and regulations of the Sabbath?

Good question,

Which ones are in force?

Which ones are not in force?

Which laws about the Sabbath have you chosen to follow?

 

[abcdef]

What's the difference between breaking one of the laws of the OT and one of Jesus' commands?

Since Jesus is God both are His commands.

The difference is,

that one is sin under the old covenant, covered with the blood of sheep,

and the other is sin under the new covenant, covered with the blood of Jesus.

But you are teaching that there is only one covenant,

a blending of the two.

All Sabbaths are shadows, of the substance, of the rest IN the body and blood of Jesus.

A "new testament/contract" is exactly that,

You cannot CHANGE the law and still say that it is the same law,

Now it is a new law, different from the old law,

The old is no longer in force.

 

[KohenMatt]

Good question,

Which ones are in force?

Which ones are not in force?

Which laws about the Sabbath have you chosen to follow?

I follow the Biblical rules and regulations of the Sabbath, which are pretty easy enough.

 

[abcdef]

I follow the Biblical rules and regulations of the Sabbath, which are pretty easy enough.

So you follow every rule and regulation in the Bible about the Sabbath?

Or just some?

 

[KohenMatt]

Since Jesus is God both are His commands.

The difference is,

that one is sin under the old covenant, covered with the blood of sheep,

and the other is sin under the new covenant, covered with the blood of Jesus.

It's not the blood of sheep that forgave sins, it was God's mercy allowing that. It is still God's mercy that forgives, now through Jesus.

But you are teaching that there is only one covenant,

a blending of the two.

Kind of.

There are multiple covenants within Scripture that are applicable and valid today. (Adamic, Abraham, Noah, etc.) There is one covenant for the forgiveness of sins though: Jesus and the New Covenant. The Law was never intended to offer salvation, which is why it doesn't compete with the New Covenant. So there is room for both when each are put in their proper purpose.

All Sabbaths are shadows, of the substance, of the rest IN the body and blood of Jesus.

Shadows to be sure, but the existence of the substance doesn't negate the purpose of the shadow. God says the feasts are meant to serve as reminders of something greater. It is similar to christmas and easter for Christians (although I don't believe in those days.) Why do Christians remember and celebrate Jesus's birth since it's already happened? Why remember and celebrate His resurrection if it's already happened? Those days are just shadows to the substance. But reminders still.

The other thing is that while there truly is rest in Jesus, the rest He proclaimed and gave was never a rest meant to replace a physical sabbath. That was never part of the Biblical instruction.

A "new testament/contract" is exactly that,

You cannot CHANGE the law and still say that it is the same law,

Now it is a new law, different from the old law,

The old is no longer in force.

It depends on what someone thinks it is "in force" for. Is it "in force" for salvation? No. Never was.
Is it valid and applicable to help know how to live today? Absolutely.

 

[KohenMatt]

So you follow every rule and regulation in the Bible about the Sabbath?

Or just some?

What are the Biblical rules and regulations about the Sabbath? Not the man-made additions or interpretations, but the straight-up Biblical instructions as given by God.

 

[lv2ski]

OK, so if I've accepted that atonement for sin through Jesus' sacrifice as my salvation, but I look to follow the Law with no intent of gaining favor from God, what happens when I break one of the laws? What happens?

Christ is the end of the law for him that believes. Paul
Notice it said law, not commandments. Galatians chastises us for coming to the cross to be saved and then returning to the law to be perfected. Confess and turn from your sin daily and be washed in the blood of Jesus. B then move on. You are free from the law thru the blood of Jesus.

 

[KohenMatt]

Christ is the end of the law for him that believes. Paul
Notice it said law, not commandments. Galatians chastises us for coming to the cross to be saved and then returning to the law to be perfected. Confess and turn from your sin daily and be washed in the blood of Jesus. B then move on. You are free from the law thru the blood of Jesus.

Note what you said. "Galatians chastises us for coming to the cross to be saved and then returning to the law to be perfected." You're absolutely correct. But the kind of obedience to the Law I'm talking about isn't meant to do that, nor was it intended to do. And Paul never spoke against that kind of obedience to the Law.

 

[beta]

Personally, I freely admit that I can't keep the entire law. So what happens if I break one of the commandments, and are therefore guilty of breaking all of it? What then?

I think when James refs to the whole law he means the 10 Commandments only which are one selfcontained law given by God personally and has survived into the NT, being eternal, spiritual, holy, just and good Rom 7. Deut 5v22. James is not ref to the 'commandments/requirements contained in ordinances/works which Jesus abolished on the cross Eph 2v15.
And these 10 Commandments are not impossible to keep 1Joh 5v3 with the help of God's Holy Spirit.

Since we are only disciples/learners/apprentices God does not yet expect perfection....so when we sin we repent and are forgiven. But should not let this be the norm....a 'covered sin is not the same as a sin overcome....which is what to aim for. And YES - GOD does it ...not we by ourself !

 

[beta]

What is the purpose?

To give us 'spiritual insight and understanding of God's plan and work for humanity !

 

[beta]

Sabbath shows the sovereignty of God over our world. That's why the Jews observe the Sabbath, Christians attend Sunday services, each and every human rests in the weekends. Virtually all mankind are observing the Sabbath. It all originated from the Sabbath observed by ancient Jews.

That being said, the 10 commandments are the core commandments in a Covenant granted to the Jews.

Matthew 19:18-19 (NIV)
“Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,
honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Jesus didn't skip Sabbath by a mistake. His words are teachings effective in our New Covenant, and with the Jewish Sabbath excluded. In the New Covenant, there's no longer the Law. We rely on faith to be saved instead of our works such as observing Sabbath. All left is we need to follow Jesus Christ teachings and to be Jesus-like.

You should not call it the 'jewish sabbath - that is not true !!! It is the Sabbath of the Lord Lev 23 !!!
The Jews did/do not keep it correctly and we are not to do after them. We are to follow JESUS !!!

 

[Dan_473]

I agree with the 'good works....and because we are saved !

But we are to do more than 'rest on the Sabbath....we are to 'remember the Sabbath to keep it holy, and to 'assemble before God (to be instructed by HIM) Lev 23. It's a special time/appointment set aside for intimate communication with His own people who hold dear what is holy to God. Any other time you assemble before MEN from whom you HEAR 'about God 'secondhand !
I have already quoted Lev 10v10 once today !

If you are God's own like you say, you will be happy not only to DO what God says but 'go the extra mile ! Creation is 'ongoing and we are expected to move ahead with it-until we are perfect....the 7 days are not up yet !

anytime at least two Christians are gathered together, that's a holy assembly because Jesus is there.

there is no special time/appointment set aside for intimate communication. the Spirit is inside of Christians 24/7.

 

[Hawkins]

You should not call it the 'jewish sabbath - that is not true !!! It is the Sabbath of the Lord Lev 23 !!!
The Jews did/do not keep it correctly and we are not to do after them. We are to follow JESUS !!!

I simply tried to indicate that it is the Sabbath the Jews tried to observe. Anyhow I admit that I don't reckon the importance of observing the Sabbath today as Jews shall do before. In the past 2000 years how many saved Christians actually seriously observed the Sabbath? I believe that this is foreseen 2000 year back thus Jesus didn't mention it in His teaching of the commandments.

In contrary, in the past 2000 years how many saved Christians actively attended gatherings such as our Sunday services?

 

[Dan_473]

Personally, I freely admit that I can't keep the entire law. So what happens if I break one of the commandments, and are therefore guilty of breaking all of it? What then?

well... not if you break a commandment. We are all breaking the whole law because, for example, there is no levitical preist that we can show our moldy jacket to.


realizing that the entire law is being broken all the time, the Christian rejoices to read

14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[beta]

Since Jesus is God both are His commands.

The difference is,

that one is sin under the old covenant, covered with the blood of sheep,

and the other is sin under the new covenant, covered with the blood of Jesus.

But you are teaching that there is only one covenant,

a blending of the two.

All Sabbaths are shadows, of the substance, of the rest IN the body and blood of Jesus.

A "new testament/contract" is exactly that,

You cannot CHANGE the law and still say that it is the same law,

Now it is a new law, different from the old law,

The old is no longer in force.

It is the same law/commandments but kept differently by a new Creation
motivated by LOVE first - law second !

 

[beta]

anytime at least two Christians are gathered together, that's a holy assembly because Jesus is there.

there is no special time/appointment set aside for intimate communication. the Spirit is inside of Christians 24/7.

Agree with the first (partly).... any scripture for the second statement ?