THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH

[Quasar92]

FYI bluto, I am not one of your grandchildren. Nor do I take lessons in eschatology from unqualified expositors. I have qualified teaching credentials from two separate Bible Colleges with both a BA and a Masters, of many long years past!

Jesus ministry during His first advent was EXCLUSIVELY to Israel, as He made crystal clear in Mt.10:5-6 and Mt.15:24. The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.

According to Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. Jesus will take everyone who ever believes in Him to heaven with Him when He comes for them, in the previously posted Scriptures. That DOES NOT happen when He returns in His second coming to the earth WITH them, seven years later, from their marriage in heaven, as recorded in Rev.19:7-8 and 14. As I previously posted in #339 above.

Explain to me why you deny the Church/everyone who belongs to Christ, got into heaven, and will return with Christ, when He comes in His second coming to the earth, WITH His Church, when the Scriptures clearly tell you they do.


Quasar92

 

[popeye]

Matt 24 is about the trib.

Matt 25 is where Jesus comes,

Then the last judgement.

The order of Matt 24 &25 together prove that Jesus comes after the great trib.

Lol

Then the whole church makes it completely through the GT,and Jesus forgets to deal with the
AC,in lieu of taking his bride into the marriage chamber.

Ridiculous

 

[popeye]

I'll be happy to give you the Bible's interpretation of the 10 virgins. This is Sunday School stuff and I can tell I'm dealing with an amateur because you just (without thinking) insert the pre-trib rapture into the context without you even understanding the context. Look at the first verse of Matthew 25, "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridgroom." My point is the fact that Matthew 25 is a continuation of what was already stated by Jesus Christ at Matthew 24 where the post-tribulation happens before His second coming.

Now, the ten virgins are a picture of those calling themselves Christians. Notice at Matthew 25:2, "And five of them were foolish, and five were prudent." Why popeye? I mean look at what they all had in common. They were all bridesmaids; they all went out to meet the bridegroom, they all had lampls; they all fell asleep while they waited; and all were awakened by the cry at midnight. So again, why were five foolish and the other five wise?

The five foolish ones did bring their lampls but they had no extra supply of oil. In other words, these five were not prepared to meet the bridegroom. This is the point of the parable. The wise Christian is prepared for the Bridegroom's return. So what is the point of all this? Those who are prepared like the 5 wise virgins joined the bridegroom in the wedding banquet and the door was shut. Later, when the foolish virgins arrived, they were denied entrance. As Jesus said before, there is coming a time when it will be "too late" to enter the Kingdom.

And like I said earlier, Matthew 25 is an extension or better yet Jesus is expanding on what He said at Mattehew 24 where we are to be wise and watch the signs. Nothing in Matthew 25 speaks of a rapture of the Church. Now popeye, suppose you explain to all of us here the parable of the Talents and the judgement of the world at Matthew 25:31-46? Why is Jesus speaking of the judgement of the world if were raptured and having this wonderful leg of lamb wedding feast?

IN GOD THE SON,
james

You serious.?

The gathering of the church,who are awaiting the groom,and his taking her into the marriage chamber had nothing to do with the rapture?

Are you saying there is no rapture at all?

And cut the juvenile shots at my character. They will ban you for that mess.
Try to be civil.

 

[popeye]

FYI bluto, I am not one of your grandchildren. Nor do I take lessons in eschatology from unqualified expositors. I have qualified teaching credentials from two separate Bible Colleges with both a BA and a Masters, of many long years past!

Jesus ministry during His first advent was EXCLUSIVELY to Israel, as He made crystal clear in Mt.10:5-6 and Mt.15:24. The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.

According to Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. Jesus will take everyone who ever believes in Him to heaven with Him when He comes for them, in the previously posted Scriptures. That DOES NOT happen when He returns in His second coming to the earth WITH them, seven years later, from their marriage in heaven, as recorded in Rev.19:7-8 and 14. As I previously posted in #339 above.

Explain to me why you deny the Church/everyone who belongs to Christ, got into heaven, and will return with Christ, when He comes in His second coming to the earth, WITH His Church, when the Scriptures clearly tell you they do.


Quasar92

typical postrib tactics . "bluto" wants you arguing with his childish shots at you because his doctrine is so ridiculous

 

[bluto]

I see quasar, you think because of your age you have a valid argument, is that it? Which means that it is impossible for you to be wrong, is that it to? Were past the fact of what Jesus' ministry is because He is directly answering the disciples qestion at Matthew 24:3. You on the other hand have not explained how Israel fits into the question of "Your coming and the end of the age." Why? Instead, your asking me questions to avoid answering my simple question when you say, "Explain to me why you deny the Church/everyone who belongs to Christ, got into heaven, and will return with Christ, when He comes in His second coming to the earth, WITH His Church, when the Scriptures clearly tell you they do." This is nothing but "assumption" on your part.

And then to make matters worse popeye who is not eating his spincach chimes in with nothing more than "blather" because he too can not answer my question? Again, quasar, your "ASSUMING" the church is raptured at you time frame and you incapable of addressing the "when is the end of the age" question the disples ask Jesus about? So when is it, before or after the so-called rapture or after? To base your position on the "laurels" of you being old does not mean you are wiser.

What did the Apostle Paul say to Timolthy, "Do not let anyone despise your yourth." This is what your doing just because I'm younger than you which means in your world I'm happen to be not smarter than you. Wake up quasar. And btw, not to diminish what is going on around here I want to make the following statement. Nobody in their right mind wants to go through the tribulation which means I hope you are right. The fact that Jesus Christ is coming back for His church is good enough for me. None of this is a salvational issue and I hope we can keep in that vain. If either you or "popeye" wants to debate me on this issue I will be glad to accomadate the both of you. I do my homework and I never leave any stone unturned. PS: are you not the guy who denies the Trinity and advocates that God the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit? Mainly because you believe since God is Holy He is the person of the Holy Spirit? Yes of no?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto



IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[popeye]

I see quasar, you think because of your age you have a valid argument, is that it? Which means that it is impossible for you to be wrong, is that it to? Were past the fact of what Jesus' ministry is because He is directly answering the disciples qestion at Matthew 24:3. You on the other hand have not explained how Israel fits into the question of "Your coming and the end of the age." Why? Instead, your asking me questions to avoid answering my simple question when you say, "Explain to me why you deny the Church/everyone who belongs to Christ, got into heaven, and will return with Christ, when He comes in His second coming to the earth, WITH His Church, when the Scriptures clearly tell you they do." This is nothing but "assumption" on your part.

And then to make matters worse popeye who is not eating his spincach chimes in with nothing more than "blather" because he too can not answer my question? Again, quasar, your "ASSUMING" the church is raptured at you time frame and you incapable of addressing the "when is the end of the age" question the disples ask Jesus about? So when is it, before or after the so-called rapture or after? To base your position on the "laurels" of you being old does not mean you are wiser.

What did the Apostle Paul say to Timolthy, "Do not let anyone despise your yourth." This is what your doing just because I'm younger than you which means in your world I'm happen to be not smarter than you. Wake up quasar. And btw, not to diminish what is going on around here I want to make the following statement. Nobody in their right mind wants to go through the tribulation which means I hope you are right. The fact that Jesus Christ is coming back for His church is good enough for me. None of this is a salvational issue and I hope we can keep in that vain. If either you or "popeye" wants to debate me on this issue I will be glad to accomadate the both of you. I do my homework and I never leave any stone unturned. PS: are you not the guy who denies the Trinity and advocates that God the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit? Mainly because you believe since God is Holy He is the person of the Holy Spirit? Yes of no?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto



IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

OK,
1) your post is all over the place.
2) even when you are called on it,you still go personal.

it is as if you have a GREATER ISSUE with those challenging you,that with the eschatology itself.

Anytime I address your "response" I have to wade through the personal landmines galore,and then choose to address what little substance is left to debate.

Why not open a "I have issues with anyone who challenges me" forum to malign and mock us there,and reserve this board for your "superior" debating gifting you're so eager to have us fawning over?

Or,just gather your thoughts,stay ON SUBJECT,and debate the issue at hand,w/o the mocking and maligning,which should be so easy for you ,since we are so stupid.

 

[popeye]

And what about vs14 where Jesus says the following, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall BE PREACHED IN THE WHOLE WORLD FOR A WITNESS TO ALL NATIONS, AND THEN THE END WILL COME." So quasar, what is the gospel that the nation of Israel preached to the whole world and when DID THE END COME?

Now, you just mentioned Matthew 24:31. How do you know that the "elect" in this verse refers only to Israel? And when did this event take place when at vs30 the Son of Man appeared to Israel by coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory? You cannot quasar just arbitrarily pick and choose verses to support a teaching which do not "jive" with the entire context. It's rather obvious in your way of thinking you got this issue all sewed up and all that you post is mostly "cut and paste" (and I understand it just makes it easier for you) but your missing a lot of stitches, i.e context.

You see, I use to believe as you but I was willing to change my position because I was open minded and willing to listen to other views based on the Scriptures. In other words, I employed Acts 17:11, "Now these were more nobleminded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eargerness, EXAMING THE SCRIPTURES DAIL, TO SEE WHETHER THESE THINGS WERE SO." As a side note, notice that the Thessalonians are mentioned here by the Apostle Paul and it is them that Paul took great pains to explain about the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Really? Lets see if that is true.

Give me 4 pretrib rapture verses.

Give me 1 postrib rapture verse. Just one

 

[popeye]

If either you or "popeye" wants to debate me on this issue I will be glad to accomadate the both of you. I do my homework and I never leave any stone unturned.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto



IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Ok,did you read in 1 thes 4 about the dead in christ raised first?
Then those alive (and born again) following?

About Jesus rising from the dead?

And those in paradise also rising from the dead.

1st resurrection?

 

[popeye]

And then to make matters worse popeye who is not eating his spincach chimes in with nothing more than "blather" because he too can not answer my question?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto



IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

A good example of having to wade through your muck.

Sling off slime,wash up,sit back down at keyboard.

Uh,Ok what?
What was your question?

Oh,ok uh,what is this very special question none of us can answer.?

 

[bluto]

OK,
1) your post is all over the place.
2) even when you are called on it,you still go personal.

it is as if you have a GREATER ISSUE with those challenging you,that with the eschatology itself.

Anytime I address your "response" I have to wade through the personal landmines galore,and then choose to address what little substance is left to debate.

Why not open a "I have issues with anyone who challenges me" forum to malign and mock us there,and reserve this board for your "superior" debating gifting you're so eager to have us fawning over?

Or,just gather your thoughts,stay ON SUBJECT,and debate the issue at hand,w/o the mocking and maligning,which should be so easy for you ,since we are so stupid.

In other words, you can't address the substance of my post because your "inept." I already went through Matthew 24 practically line by line without writing every verse and you still have a problem addressing one issue I rasied? Instead of focusing on what you deem personal please focus on the content/context of the verses. And btw, I addressed the virgin issue and you have not yet addressed the parable of the talents or the judgement issue of Matthew 25, why?

Here, let me help you out? Look at Matthew 25:31, "But when the Son of Man comes to His glory, and all the angels with Him then He will sit on His throne." Now watch this at vs32, "And all the nations will be gathered together before Him; and He will sit on His glorious throne." Please pray tell, tell us all here where the wedding feast of the rapture fits into this verse? And look at vs39, "And when did we see you sick or in prison, and come to You? What happened popeye, did some of the saints get sick from the wedding feast and go to prison?

Come on boy, you have to get real and learn to deal with what the scriptures are actually saying and teaching. Please, please please, deal with the context and not with your already formulated opinions you got from others.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[GaryA]

What you have to wade through the most in this thread is PRIDE, PRIDE, PRIDE - from every direction...

350 posts --- and, how many of them are actually about what the title indicates?

How many of them are off-topic rambles and vague suggestions?

How many of you are actually capable of discussing something precisely-and-specifically on-topic?

"As long as I have been on CC --- and, I have yet to see more-than-a-few who seem to be able-and-willing to do it..."

( And, I am being very generous in making this statement - but, only because I believe that there are "a very precious few" on CC who seem to be capable of such... )

"When you full-of-PRIDE people learn how to swallow your PRIDE and have actual discussions on the actual topic of a thread, more people will probably take part in the discussions - thereby making them more interesting discussions..."



SMH

 

[bluto]

Yea gary, I can see everybody is all wind up in pride? Did it ever occur to you that sometimes a little "levity/fun" is in order? Besides, this topic is "NOT" a salvic issue. It has to do with when the coming of the Lord will happen in a general sense because nobody no when it will actually happen. In short, this is not an essential issue that determines where one will spend eternity.

So I suggest you lighten up and quit being a "stuffed shirt." You should know this is not a life and death issue. In fact, I hope the pre-trib believers are right, I for one do not want to be around when the anti-christ appears. I'm pretty sure I'm high on his list because I oppose him so much. So again, enjoy the ride and don't get your shorts all knotted up. Your not going to loose you salvation because you don't know the time of Jesus Christ return, just be prepared and be thankful that He is returning.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Bladerunner]

Well since Noah was just a like any other man a sinner why would there be a need to ignore that event?

Oh PS: I do not believe in the Pre0tribulation rapture.. I believe the rapture will happen on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ..

so you are post-trib

 

[Bladerunner]

What you have to wade through the most in this thread is PRIDE, PRIDE, PRIDE - from every direction...

350 posts --- and, how many of them are actually about what the title indicates?

How many of them are off-topic rambles and vague suggestions?




How many of you are actually capable of discussing something precisely-and-specifically on-topic?

"As long as I have been on CC --- and, I have yet to see more-than-a-few who seem to be able-and-willing to do it..."

( And, I am being very generous in making this statement - but, only because I believe that there are "a very precious few" on CC who seem to be capable of such... )

"When you full-of-PRIDE people learn how to swallow your PRIDE and have actual discussions on the actual topic of a thread, more people will probably take part in the discussions - thereby making them more interesting discussions..."



SMH

I believe I would read Genesis 6 then 7 and study this real good.

 

[popeye]

In other words, you can't address the substance of my post because your "inept." I already went through Matthew 24 practically line by line without writing every verse and you still have a problem addressing one issue I rasied? Instead of focusing on what you deem personal please focus on the content/context of the verses. And btw, I addressed the virgin issue and you have not yet addressed the parable of the talents or the judgement issue of Matthew 25, why?

Here, let me help you out? Look at Matthew 25:31, "But when the Son of Man comes to His glory, and all the angels with Him then He will sit on His throne." Now watch this at vs32, "And all the nations will be gathered together before Him; and He will sit on His glorious throne." Please pray tell, tell us all here where the wedding feast of the rapture fits into this verse? And look at vs39, "And when did we see you sick or in prison, and come to You? What happened popeye, did some of the saints get sick from the wedding feast and go to prison?

Come on boy, you have to get real and learn to deal with what the scriptures are actually saying and teaching. Please, please please, deal with the context and not with your already formulated opinions you got from others.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You have some serious personal issues huh?

You know if you don't love people,and address then like they are some trash,what are you doing putting the son of God at the end of your posts?

 

[Bladerunner]

You have some serious personal issues huh?

You know if you don't love people,and address then like they are some trash,what are you doing putting the son of God at the end of your posts?

??????? don't understand?

 

[GaryA]

"If an individual believes that their man-made-and-man-given 'credentials' somehow exempt them from the possibility of being in error -- I suggest -- that - they are so incredibly deceived -- and, are one of Satan's favorite kind of people..."

( full of PRIDE )

Every born-again Christian - who is taught by the Holy Spirit - should be considered to have the 'credentials' to teach the Word of God.

It is not man-made institutions that have the authority to decide such [ spiritual ] things. That authority rests only in the Word of God.

In most cases -- man-made institutions have done harm to the Churches and to the Great Commission --- by teaching error...


Any Christian - who has been taught error -- and, stands on that error blindly ( because they do not believe that they could possibly have been taught error ) -- is the most dangerous kind of Christian in existence today...


Every Christian needs to continue in the practice of "re-visit, re-study, re-hash" -- to keep themselves out of the error ditch. Any Christian who "so believes" that they are "so right" -- to the point of not being willing to "go back" - to [re-]study to make sure that they are not in error -- is "a lazy fool for a Christian"...


"Just sayin'..."

 

[popeye]

What you have to wade through the most in this thread is PRIDE, PRIDE, PRIDE - from every direction...

350 posts --- and, how many of them are actually about what the title indicates?

How many of them are off-topic rambles and vague suggestions?

How many of you are actually capable of discussing something precisely-and-specifically on-topic?

"As long as I have been on CC --- and, I have yet to see more-than-a-few who seem to be able-and-willing to do it..."

( And, I am being very generous in making this statement - but, only because I believe that there are "a very precious few" on CC who seem to be capable of such... )

"When you full-of-PRIDE people learn how to swallow your PRIDE and have actual discussions on the actual topic of a thread, more people will probably take part in the discussions - thereby making them more interesting discussions..."



SMH

Reread the title

See where it says " pre trib rapture" ?

Most of the posts are on that concept.

Your the first person I have ever seen with a pride police badge.

Is like the spelling police?

 

[popeye]

??????? don't understand?

Referring to bluto.

Wading through his little personal shots is getting tedious.

 

[bluto]

You have some serious personal issues huh?

You know if you don't love people,and address then like they are some trash,what are you doing putting the son of God at the end of your posts?

Oh, so is that how it is popeye? What seer are you consulting to know the extent of how much I love people? Is this the best you have to take issue of my signature line, "IN GOD THE SON" as if I don't mean it or I don't love people? Now you have crossed the line with me and shows me your small character.

Let me tell you something! I've been married 48 years now and have three daughters ages 47,42, and 40. I have eight grandchildren who I have taught to follow the Lord Jesus Christ. I have been a Christian for 54 years now and my mentor was the late Dr. Walter Martin. Do you know who he is? I'm a Vietnam veteran that went there in January of 1968 and two weeks later was the Tet offensive. I saw many of my friends die including me almost. God spared me just in time to talk with you.

So don't you lecture me about love and how to be a Christian. Did you ever read Matthew 23:27-37 where love incarnate Jesus Chirst is talking? And no, I am not putting you in that category but rather making the point that what I say about people is not the same as how I feel about them. In short, grow up and deal with the issues at hand and not with the person boy.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto