What is the explanation for God's foreknowledge and omniscience?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
398
32
28
31
Tied with him being the Creator of all things? I've had people argue and affirming those things and also affirming God's the creator of all things while saying men have authonomy and free will (things the bible never mention).

I'd like to say it's impossible for a Creator to have foreknowledge and omniscience and not foredetermine and predestine all things to happen, now when I say that people usually quote Deuteronomy 29:29 saying that's not revealed to us and it's not our place to fully comprehend God or saying that's not been revealed to us and that we can never understand all things.

I'd like to say that's been revealed to us, if you just accept and affirm all those things, they all make sense, it's when you start throwing in authonomy and free will on man's part that it becomes troublesome. There's no way you can have a compromise there and still affirm all of the other things.

God's a sovereign God and no one can resist his will, he's the creator of all things and foredetermines and predestines all things that come to pass, he's the creator of Lucipher himself, and nothing good or bad can come out of any source that's not God, Lucipher and his angels can't exist as opposition in the sense we know enemies clash against each other because he has no hope of accomplishing what he wants in the first place, what kind of enemy is an enemy that I go up against and foredecrer his end in a fight that is yet to happen so no matter what happens or what he does it's already determined, I argue the only reason that's possible is because God so determined for all things that were to happen happened according to the cousel of his will, same with the cross and Jesus Christ our savior.
 
[h=1]Joshua 24:15(KJV)[/h]15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Sounds like they had the freedom to choose to me...

My friend, God is not the author of sin. Lucifer chose to rebel. Man chose to rebel.

What you're saying is:

"Hey I sin. I didn't choose to sin, it was God's choice. Just go with it and don't try to understand it. God's ways are not our ways."
 
"I'd like to say it's impossible for a Creator to have foreknowledge and omniscience and not foredetermine and predestine all things to happen, now when I say that people usually quote Deuteronomy 29:29 saying that's not revealed to us and it's not our place to fully comprehend God or saying that's not been revealed to us and that we can never understand all things."

This is your words I would like to point out that you yourself have just limited God in your own mind, and frankly you fail to understand what you claim to, my God is unlimited in His power and scope of possibility, (Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.)
now as far as the will of man, lets look at some text that directly show man has choices, limited yes but choices none the less. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
see the words according to their works? if all things were already predestined then why would mankind be judged according to His works? cant have it both ways.. Psa 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
I ask you if this text be true(and it is) could a just God full of mercy predestine some to choose evil and then punish them for it?
the whole idea of calcavism is flawed it goes against the character of the Heavenly Father.
 
Tied with him being the Creator of all things? I've had people argue and affirming those things and also affirming God's the creator of all things while saying men have authonomy and free will (things the bible never mention).

I'd like to say it's impossible for a Creator to have foreknowledge and omniscience and not foredetermine and predestine all things to happen, now when I say that people usually quote Deuteronomy 29:29 saying that's not revealed to us and it's not our place to fully comprehend God or saying that's not been revealed to us and that we can never understand all things.

I'd like to say that's been revealed to us, if you just accept and affirm all those things, they all make sense, it's when you start throwing in authonomy and free will on man's part that it becomes troublesome. There's no way you can have a compromise there and still affirm all of the other things.

God's a sovereign God and no one can resist his will, he's the creator of all things and foredetermines and predestines all things that come to pass, he's the creator of Lucipher himself, and nothing good or bad can come out of any source that's not God, Lucipher and his angels can't exist as opposition in the sense we know enemies clash against each other because he has no hope of accomplishing what he wants in the first place, what kind of enemy is an enemy that I go up against and foredecrer his end in a fight that is yet to happen so no matter what happens or what he does it's already determined, I argue the only reason that's possible is because God so determined for all things that were to happen happened according to the cousel of his will, same with the cross and Jesus Christ our savior.


That's a very "limited" view of the God who is omniscient and omnipotent.
 
::)
"I'd like to say it's impossible for a Creator to have foreknowledge and omniscience and not foredetermine and predestine all things to happen, now when I say that people usually quote Deuteronomy 29:29 saying that's not revealed to us and it's not our place to fully comprehend God or saying that's not been revealed to us and that we can never understand all things."

This is your words I would like to point out that you yourself have just limited God in your own mind, and frankly you fail to understand what you claim to, my God is unlimited in His power and scope of possibility, (Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.)
now as far as the will of man, lets look at some text that directly show man has choices, limited yes but choices none the less. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
see the words according to their works? if all things were already predestined then why would mankind be judged according to His works? cant have it both ways.. Psa 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
I ask you if this text be true(and it is) could a just God full of mercy predestine some to choose evil and then punish them for it?
the whole idea of calcavism is flawed it goes against the character of the Heavenly Father.

I totally agree with this and may I just add that God has set the boundaries on what is good and what is evil.
He has told us what is excepted and what is not. That message rings clear to all mankind.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...all thing seen and un seen.
 
"I'd like to say it's impossible for a Creator to have foreknowledge and omniscience and not foredetermine and predestine all things to happen, now when I say that people usually quote Deuteronomy 29:29 saying that's not revealed to us and it's not our place to fully comprehend God or saying that's not been revealed to us and that we can never understand all things."

This is your words I would like to point out that you yourself have just limited God in your own mind, and frankly you fail to understand what you claim to, my God is unlimited in His power and scope of possibility, (Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.)
now as far as the will of man, lets look at some text that directly show man has choices, limited yes but choices none the less. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
see the words according to their works? if all things were already predestined then why would mankind be judged according to His works? cant have it both ways.. Psa 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
I ask you if this text be true(and it is) could a just God full of mercy predestine some to choose evil and then punish them for it?
the whole idea of calcavism is flawed it goes against the character of the Heavenly Father.

God's word is both testimony for believers and dammnation for unbelievers, can't have it both ways, that's exactly what it is, and in no way does that go against the sovereignity of God or diminishes it somehow.
 
There is no reason to claim that if God knows what choices we are going to make that it means we are not free. It still means that the free choices we will make are free. They are just known ahead of time by God. If we choose something different, then that choice will have been eternally known by God. Furthermore, this knowledge by God does not alter our nature in that it does not change that we are free to make choices. God's knowledge is necessarily complete and exhaustive because that is His nature, to know all things.
 
There is no reason to claim that if God knows what choices we are going to make that it means we are not free. It still means that the free choices we will make are free. They are just known ahead of time by God. If we choose something different, then that choice will have been eternally known by God. Furthermore, this knowledge by God does not alter our nature in that it does not change that we are free to make choices. God's knowledge is necessarily complete and exhaustive because that is His nature, to know all things.

That would be fine if God wasn't also the Creator of all things, God being the Creator of all things means he creates knowing what's going to happen, so he's determining according to his foreknowledge, or creating it so that he knows it happens that way, such is the nature of our God, if you try to fit human authonomy into that equation it doesn't work.
 
::)

I totally agree with this and may I just add that God has set the boundaries on what is good and what is evil.
He has told us what is excepted and what is not. That message rings clear to all mankind.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...all thing seen and un seen.

Anything that's not God, is evil or sin, the moment God separated heavens from earth, relegating man to one realm and Himself to another, God decided where good and evil would stand, the only way to be reconciled with God and the kingdom of heavens is through Jesus Christ, and that's a free gift, it's called grace, man can't have any part in it that's not decided by God's giving it to the man.
 
That's a very "limited" view of the God who is omniscient and omnipotent.

It's only limited because you want your God not to be sovrereign or all knowing, cause that's the only way you get human authonomy, which in itself is impossible seeing how the end has already been foredecreed before the creation of time itself as you know it.
 
Joshua 24:15(KJV)

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.


ISounds like they had the freedom to choose to me...

My friend, God is not the author of sin. Lucifer chose to rebel. Man chose to rebel.

What you're saying is:

"Hey I sin. I didn't choose to sin, it was God's choice. Just go with it and don't try to understand it. God's ways are not our ways."

I always tell people who say that to me to read romans 9 some more and see who they are and who God is, who is the Creator and who is the created.

God's word serves as testimony for those who have believed in Jesus Christ and follow his words, and as condemnation for those who were not to believe as well, and that's the way God in his sovereignity chose to do it.
 
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Everything was already planned out from the foundation of the world.

Isa 41:21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Isa 41:24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.
Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
Isa 41:27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
Isa 41:28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.

God told us the end from the beginning,and said no other religion,or person,would be able to do that.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

The devils know they are defeated,and people will realize that one day that are not right with God,for all knees shall bow,and all tongues confess that Jesus is Lord,to the glory of God the Father.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

But although God had everything planned out,He still gave us the choice whether to follow Him or not,for He wants all people to be saved.

The Bible speaks of the beast kingdom in Revelation,where the world rebels against God,which God knows it is going to happen,because He is allowing it to happen,so that He can cause all people that do not love Him to follow it,so He can put an end to this sin business.

God is not forcing anybody to follow it,but He is allowing them to follow it,so God did not choose them to follow it,but the made that choice,like God did not choose who would be saved,but they chose it,but we would not get to the point of accepting the truth without the assistance of God,but we have to be the final push by accepting it.

The Bible says that God visits all people to cause them to think upon the truth,but what they do with it is up to them,for the Bible says give offense in nothing that the ministry be not blamed,and conduct yourselves properly in the eyes of the world,so that they will glorify God in the day of visitation.

Prophesy will tell of God causing nations to collapse,and warnings to certain areas,and to people,but that is the corruption in the high places,which God knows will happen beforehand,especially given people's nature in those positions,but that does not mean all the people have to be punished,for they can turn to God,like God said concerning the beast kingdom,come out of her,and do not partake of her evil deeds,so prophesy does not mean all people concerning it,for we have a choice,but in general the people in the high positions cause the prophesy to occur,as well as many people that were corrupted by them,but it is not all the people,if the people turn to God.

But that is right,how is Satan an enemy of God in the sense that he has no hope of beating him,and knows he is defeated,and the devils tremble at that which is to come upon them.Satan is only a minor inconvenience that happens in the world only because of the sin nature of people.Once God puts down the sin of the world,Satan has no more influence on the world,and has no more purpose so he is put down,but he is no bother to God at all.
 
The problem is you have tried to put yourself above God in believing only you can comprehend what God has done and why.

You were predestined by God to teach God is not allowed to determine what people will or will not do. In other words, you are trying to put yourself above God by saying only you have the Truth as to why everything is the way they are.
 
Tied with him being the Creator of all things? I've had people argue and affirming those things and also affirming God's the creator of all things while saying men have authonomy and free will (things the bible never mention).

I'd like to say it's impossible for a Creator to have foreknowledge and omniscience and not foredetermine and predestine all things to happen, now when I say that people usually quote Deuteronomy 29:29 saying that's not revealed to us and it's not our place to fully comprehend God or saying that's not been revealed to us and that we can never understand all things.

I'd like to say that's been revealed to us, if you just accept and affirm all those things, they all make sense, it's when you start throwing in authonomy and free will on man's part that it becomes troublesome. There's no way you can have a compromise there and still affirm all of the other things.

God's a sovereign God and no one can resist his will, he's the creator of all things and foredetermines and predestines all things that come to pass, he's the creator of Lucipher himself, and nothing good or bad can come out of any source that's not God, Lucipher and his angels can't exist as opposition in the sense we know enemies clash against each other because he has no hope of accomplishing what he wants in the first place, what kind of enemy is an enemy that I go up against and foredecrer his end in a fight that is yet to happen so no matter what happens or what he does it's already determined, I argue the only reason that's possible is because God so determined for all things that were to happen happened according to the cousel of his will, same with the cross and Jesus Christ our savior.

Knowing what will happen before it happens does not mean you force the happening to happen.. God can create a universe and part of that universe creation can be it's own universe time.. Meaning our universe time is a part of the creation of God.. God is not part of His creation. God exists outside his creation in His own time.. What ever the nature of that time is God knows not us.. So being outside universe time He can see all our times from His time in an instant.. God knows the Beginning and the End and He can also inject Himself into our times at critical times to give His creations ( mankind) choices.. God having foreknowledge of our free willed decision and actions can predestine who will be conformed to the likeness of Jesus because He already knows who will accept and embrace his will, He has known this since the foundation of the universe. It is Gods will to have free willed beings deciding whom they shall believe and follow..

The 5 point TULIP calvinist doctrine is wrong.. God has not created a race of zombies with not free will.. God is greater then that. He does not need to have us mind locked to bring to fruition His eternal Plan.. He can know the universe project will produce His will at the very start even with free willed beings like us..
 
Last edited:
It's only limited because you want your God not to be sovrereign or all knowing, cause that's the only way you get human authonomy, which in itself is impossible seeing how the end has already been foredecreed before the creation of time itself as you know it.

I don't believe we have met, how is it you think you know what I "want"?
 
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Everything was already planned out from the foundation of the world.

Isa 41:21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Isa 41:24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.
Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
Isa 41:27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
Isa 41:28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.

God told us the end from the beginning,and said no other religion,or person,would be able to do that.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

The devils know they are defeated,and people will realize that one day that are not right with God,for all knees shall bow,and all tongues confess that Jesus is Lord,to the glory of God the Father.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

But although God had everything planned out,He still gave us the choice whether to follow Him or not,for He wants all people to be saved.

The Bible speaks of the beast kingdom in Revelation,where the world rebels against God,which God knows it is going to happen,because He is allowing it to happen,so that He can cause all people that do not love Him to follow it,so He can put an end to this sin business.

God is not forcing anybody to follow it,but He is allowing them to follow it,so God did not choose them to follow it,but the made that choice,like God did not choose who would be saved,but they chose it,but we would not get to the point of accepting the truth without the assistance of God,but we have to be the final push by accepting it.

The Bible says that God visits all people to cause them to think upon the truth,but what they do with it is up to them,for the Bible says give offense in nothing that the ministry be not blamed,and conduct yourselves properly in the eyes of the world,so that they will glorify God in the day of visitation.

Prophesy will tell of God causing nations to collapse,and warnings to certain areas,and to people,but that is the corruption in the high places,which God knows will happen beforehand,especially given people's nature in those positions,but that does not mean all the people have to be punished,for they can turn to God,like God said concerning the beast kingdom,come out of her,and do not partake of her evil deeds,so prophesy does not mean all people concerning it,for we have a choice,but in general the people in the high positions cause the prophesy to occur,as well as many people that were corrupted by them,but it is not all the people,if the people turn to God.

But that is right,how is Satan an enemy of God in the sense that he has no hope of beating him,and knows he is defeated,and the devils tremble at that which is to come upon them.Satan is only a minor inconvenience that happens in the world only because of the sin nature of people.Once God puts down the sin of the world,Satan has no more influence on the world,and has no more purpose so he is put down,but he is no bother to God at all.

You were doing well when you were quoting scripture and then you started saying God saves freely and graciously but we need to give a final push, prevenient grace is not biblical. Then your last paragraph is just confirmation of what I said.

I need to say you sound very confused in the end, as if you try to reconcile contradicting doctrines, pray so that God gives you full understanding of what his grace is.
 
The problem is you have tried to put yourself above God in believing only you can comprehend what God has done and why.

You were predestined by God to teach God is not allowed to determine what people will or will not do. In other words, you are trying to put yourself above God by saying only you have the Truth as to why everything is the way they are.

I'm not the only one saying what I'm saying, scripture clearly teaches it, if anyone would hear and see they would understand it, thank God there are people teaching sound doctrine these days or else how would I understand it?
 
Knowing what will happen before it happens does not mean you force the happening to happen.. God can create a universe and part of that universe creation can be it's own universe time.. Meaning our universe time is a part of the creation of God.. God is not part of His creation. God exists outside his creation in His own time.. What ever the nature of that time is God knows not us.. So being outside universe time He can see all our times from His time in an instant.. God knows the Beginning and the End and He can also inject Himself into our times at critical times to give His creations ( mankind) choices.. God having foreknowledge of our free willed decision and actions can predestine who will be conformed to the likeness of Jesus because He already knows who will accept and embrace his will, He has known this since the foundation of the universe. It is Gods will to have free willed beings deciding whom they shall believe and follow..

The 5 point TULIP calvinist doctrine is wrong.. God has not created a race of zombies with not free will.. God is greater then that. He does not need to have us mind locked to bring to fruition His eternal Plan.. He can know the universe project will produce His will at the very start even with free willed beings like us..

Your last sentence is what I hear from a lot of people who can't understand God's sovereign nature, but such is the nature of God, if only you could see and hear you would understand, but you're trying to fit in human categories into God and it doesn't work. God's the only one who has true authonomy because God's the Creator and we are the created.