FALLING FROM GRACE; WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW YOU FALL

[know1]

Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

Quote from article...

Joseph Prince's license to sin doctrine.

I don't agree with some of Prince's doctrines, but seriously, isn't this the case of the pot calling the kettle, black?
Jesus was a little more tactful, He simply called the people, hypocrites. Then proceeded to tell them to first remove the blank or log from their own eye so that they could see clearly to remove the spec from their brother's eye.
Isn't that what OSAS does?
That is, to give the born again child of God a license to sin?
Don't you all say that you're just a SINNER saved by grace, and that you sin every day?
And once you're saved, isn't your salvation guaranteed, regardless of what you do?
Didn't God say, all who come to Him, He will in no wise cast out? And all who believe on Him will have everlasting life?
In the eyes of those who agree with the OSAS doctrine, don't you believe that everyone who has truly been born again, CANNOT lose their salvation. Even to say that it is impossible for them to lose it?
Anyone who believes and tells others that they are a sinner, when they were sanctified, washed, and made clean, righteous, and holy, by the blood of Jesus, has given that person a license to sin.
There is no one I know, who promotes or gives a license to sin more, than those who believe in the OSAS doctrine.
As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he and so he does.

 

[know1]

If we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, then wouldn't it stand to reason that anyone who steps out of that said faith, would fall from the grace that the faith brought us into?
All I see is, those who are in faith, are in the grace of God.
And those who are out of faith, are out of or fallen from grace.
Can we lose faith for more than one thing?
I speaking to those who can think outside the box of salvation only.
There's more to the gospel than salvation alone.
Can't we believe in Christ's finished work on the cross for our salvation, yet fail to believe or have faith for our healing or deliverance?
So my question would be, can't we be in the grace of God in some areas, such as for salvation, and not be in the grace of God in other areas, such as for healing? Or is the grace of God an all encompassing thing, like you're either saved or not, and therefore are completely in or completely out of the grace of God?
I have another question. What happens to those who have "fallen from grace"?
Does the curse of God now rest on them, to where everything they do is cursed, or what?
What affect does that have on the one who has fallen from grace?

 

[Bladerunner]

Nonsense...all believers in the grace of God say that it is only grace that teaches us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11.

The teaching of the grace of Christ is no more of a license to sin then the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation are Daffy Duck and Donald Duck.

Let's hear from the horses mouth exactly what he does say about grace being a license to sin and is frequently being falsely accused of. Then these lies and slander can be exposed for what they really are. - again and again and again.



[video=youtube;5fIqZ5sPSEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg[/video]

Amen!

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

I don't agree with some of Prince's doctrines, but seriously, isn't this the case of the pot calling the kettle, black?
Jesus was a little more tactful, He simply called the people, hypocrites. Then proceeded to tell them to first remove the blank or log from their own eye so that they could see clearly to remove the spec from their brother's eye.
Isn't that what OSAS does?
That is, to give the born again child of God a license to sin?
Don't you all say that you're just a SINNER saved by grace, and that you sin every day?
And once you're saved, isn't your salvation guaranteed, regardless of what you do?
Didn't God say, all who come to Him, He will in no wise cast out? And all who believe on Him will have everlasting life?
In the eyes of those who agree with the OSAS doctrine, don't you believe that everyone who has truly been born again, CANNOT lose their salvation. Even to say that it is impossible for them to lose it?
Anyone who believes and tells others that they are a sinner, when they were sanctified, washed, and made clean, righteous, and holy, by the blood of Jesus, has given that person a license to sin.
There is no one I know, who promotes or gives a license to sin more, than those who believe in the OSAS doctrine.
As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he and so he does.

Whether you agree with him or not , you need to see the video on #4. Good Luck
Blade

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Personally I don't agree with any teacher on every subject but as far as the gospel of the grace of Christ goes - Joseph Prince is right on. It may "conflict" with your religious beliefs from your own teachings or church affiliate.

But to say that Joseph Prince is a false teacher is spiritual ignorance gone to seed and he is no more a false teacher then you are one of the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation. I do understand your "subtle" way of trying to make him look like a false teacher but many of us know the difference.

The gospel of the grace of Christ will prevail over man's traditions no matter how much they fight against it. Some people think that they are "defending the faith" but in reality they are just "defending their religious traditions".

Interesting, what conflicts with my "religious" beliefs would be anything that conflicts with what the word of God says in correct context. Did I subtly call him a false teacher? The litmus test of a false teacher would be one that teaches and in any way differs from the scriptures given to us. In fact we use the same litmus test for all false teachers, not just Joseph Prince. However, there are a myriad of posts that do expose false teachers in this forum and we don't need to continue to address them.

The truth of God will always prevail over man's interpretations and traditions no matter how much they fight against it even according to their religious beliefs from their own teachings or church affiliate.

"Some people think they are "defending the faith" but in reality they are just "defending their religious traditions." A very true quote that can be applied from both sides.

Grace777x70, I would also be careful about how you address people who believe differently from you. Sometimes the language you use only serves to drive a wedge in the discussion to incite further bickering rather than continue a biblical discussion by saying things like: "what is stated is right vs your religious beliefs as taught in your church" or "what you believe.... but we know better, or we grace believers know better. Just because we have a different biblical understanding given to us by the Holy Spirit doesn't mean that we don't understand God's word. Just a heads up

Now let's get this topic back on track and not delve further into the teachings of Joseph Prince.

 

[Ariel82]

When He is of effect to them, He is their healer and they get healed. He is their wisdom and they are wise before man. He is their good success and they experience good success in all that they do.

I think it off because God's wisdom,is often thought as foolishness by men.

Yes it is a sin and falling from grace to be prideful enough to think your works or actions makes God owe you anything.

However it is a lie that God promises you praise for your wisdom before men or success in everything you do if you measure it before men.

 

[Ariel82]

If we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, then wouldn't it stand to reason that anyone who steps out of that said faith, would fall from the grace that the faith brought us into?
All I see is, those who are in faith, are in the grace of God.
And those who are out of faith, are out of or fallen from grace.
Can we lose faith for more than one thing?
I speaking to those who can think outside the box of salvation only.
There's more to the gospel than salvation alone.
Can't we believe in Christ's finished work on the cross for our salvation, yet fail to believe or have faith for our healing or deliverance?
So my question would be, can't we be in the grace of God in some areas, such as for salvation, and not be in the grace of God in other areas, such as for healing? Or is the grace of God an all encompassing thing, like you're either saved or not, and therefore are completely in or completely out of the grace of God?
I have another question. What happens to those who have "fallen from grace"?
Does the curse of God now rest on them, to where everything they do is cursed, or what?
What affect does that have on the one who has fallen from grace?

Grace is unmerited favor....you can't fall in and out of it. Its not a state of being.

It is when God moves in the life of a sinner, touches their heart and gives them enough faith to believe the gospel of what Christ has done for us upon the cross.

We don't add to our grace, we add to our faith....

Still trying to understand how anyone can "fall from grace".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I heard it said like this; Religion is about trying to make bad men good., Jesus came to make dead men alive.

The problem with many in the so called "church" and even many in here is the standard of what is considered "good" and what is considered "evil"

Humans tend to protect self, it is our nature. so we water down Gods perfect standard. The pharisee did it, The religious do it, It is the mainstream.

The sad part is it sounds good. They come screaming we love sin, because we reject their righteousness, And attempt to follow Gods righteousness. They say they are the ones who love God because they work so hard to do his will. When in reality, they reject his will, because they attempt to replace Gods righteousness (perfection) with their own (fallen short of the glory of God) and claim it is what God wants.. And anyone who does not follow right along with them are evil false teachers who love sin.

Until a person realises, It is God's standard we must attain to if we want to be righteous (of our own power and work) to be acceptable to God.. they will not repent, and seek out Gods righteous gift of his son, and the cross..

 

[valiant]

If we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, then wouldn't it stand to reason that anyone who steps out of that said faith, would fall from the grace that the faith brought us into?
All I see is, those who are in faith, are in the grace of God.
And those who are out of faith, are out of or fallen from grace.
Can we lose faith for more than one thing?
I speaking to those who can think outside the box of salvation only.
There's more to the gospel than salvation alone.
Can't we believe in Christ's finished work on the cross for our salvation, yet fail to believe or have faith for our healing or deliverance?
So my question would be, can't we be in the grace of God in some areas, such as for salvation, and not be in the grace of God in other areas, such as for healing? Or is the grace of God an all encompassing thing, like you're either saved or not, and therefore are completely in or completely out of the grace of God?
I have another question. What happens to those who have "fallen from grace"?
Does the curse of God now rest on them, to where everything they do is cursed, or what?
What affect does that have on the one who has fallen from grace?

If we are saved entirely by the GRACE OF GOD, then we cannot 'step out of grace'.

The problem is that we look at salvation as though it is our work. But His grace, His active unmerited favour, makes it entirely GOD's work. We may 'fall from grace' doctrinally, but we can never fall from grace ACTUALLY. He works all things after the counsel of His own will, not of our will.

He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not of our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace - and that NEVER fails

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Teachings of Joseph Prince....
source....Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

I guess that's why "rebellious sinners" like yourself love his teachings and say they are "right on!" ROFL!!!

In his own words.

ISIT just admitted, or professed one of these two standards..

1. He is perfect. (without sin)
2. His sin is so insignificant, it really does not matter to a holy and righteous God, God loves him anyway. That his sin (although classified by God as rebellion) somehow falls short of the rebellious stage.

smh

There is absolutely no other way to interpret this.

 

[Ariel82]

In his own words.

ISIT just admitted, or professed one of these two standards..

1. He is perfect. (without sin)
2. His sin is so insignificant, it really does not matter to a holy and righteous God, God loves him anyway. That his sin (although classified by God as rebellion) somehow falls short of the rebellious stage.

smh

There is absolutely no other way to interpret this.

Totally didn't get either of those from his statement...just got that he didn't like Prince and thinks those who do teach a lictenous doctrine....


Legalism and lictenious is two sides of the same false doctrine coin.

Why don't we just talk about the true gospel and then show how it's different from either of those instead of labeling others?

 

[Zmouth]

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:14-15


If sin is transgression of the law then how can one justify saying someone else is a sinner unless they are under the law themselves?

 

[popeye]

I've been in churches where people say "boy,pastor can make us squirm" and they love it. The problem I see is that nailing people over sin,and I mean relentlessly,produces despair. They are forever working past aquired condemnation.

Swing pendulum the other way.

Lets never examine ourselves,or repent,cause God will be offended at the affront to the finished work. That outcome never gets their heart plowed by the Holy Spirit.

I like prince. His ministry appears to me to be encouragement,revelatory teaching,and kingdom building.

Falling from grace is like a neglected house. Run down,no maintenance,or a frog slowly boiled in water.

Has to do with sin,neglect,and walking carnally.

 

[Ariel82]

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:14-15


If sin is transgression of the law then how can one justify saying someone else is a sinner unless they are under the law themselves?

Sinner is someone who sins....even those who are under grace are told to avoid sin. That doesn't mean they are under the law. That means they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and are not condemned to death or "fall out of grace" by their actions. However God chastens those He loves.

If God isn't convicting your heart when you sin or disobey Him, then you should examine to see if you are truly His adopted child or just a slave to sin. (generic you, not you specifically zmouth)

 

[Zmouth]

Falling from grace is like a neglected house. Run down,no maintenance,or a frog slowly boiled in water.

Has to do with sin,neglect,and walking carnally.

So those who have no house, what are they then?

Sinner is someone who sins....even those who are under grace are told to avoid sin. That doesn't mean they are under the law. That means they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and are not condemned to death or "fall out of grace" by their actions. However God chastens those He loves.

If God isn't convicting your heart when you sin or disobey Him, then you should examine to see if you are truly His adopted child or just a slave to sin. (generic you, not you specifically zmouth)

"...for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Totally didn't get either of those from his statement...just got that he didn't like Prince and thinks those who do teach a lictenous doctrine....

Take prince out of the equation, and that is exactly what he said.

As I said, there is no other way to explain it.. (I responded to the meat of his post. Not his anti Joseph Prince Rant. which I refuse to even discuss)

Legalism and lictenious is two sides of the same false doctrine coin.

Yes. we agree.. Both are based on Pride. One says I can sin all I want (they lower the standard of the law) one says I am saved because of what I do (again, they must lower the standard of the law)

Why don't we just talk about the true gospel and then show how it's different from either of those instead of labeling others?

I do not know why.. Thats one of the reasons I stopped posting for awhile. this became a joseph prince attack forum, and not a Bible Discussion Forum.

oh but if we could just get back to the bible..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gods standard..perfection (confirm and obey ALL the words written in this law, otherwise, you are cursed, what is the curse? Death)

Thus, All men are sinners, and fall short of Gods standard.

Legalism.

Some mysterious level of sinfulness which makes you a sinner, and thus fallen from the grace of God, or unable to receive grace.. Those above this mysterious level are ok. And if anyone says anything to them, they are seen as licentious judgmental people who hate God and love sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

Interesting, what conflicts with my "religious" beliefs would be anything that conflicts with what the word of God says in correct context. Did I subtly call him a false teacher? The litmus test of a false teacher would be one that teaches and in any way differs from the scriptures given to us. In fact we use the same litmus test for all false teachers, not just Joseph Prince. However, there are a myriad of posts that do expose false teachers in this forum and we don't need to continue to address them.

The truth of God will always prevail over man's interpretations and traditions no matter how much they fight against it even according to their religious beliefs from their own teachings or church affiliate.

"Some people think they are "defending the faith" but in reality they are just "defending their religious traditions." A very true quote that can be applied from both sides.

Grace777x70, I would also be careful about how you address people who believe differently from you. Sometimes the language you use only serves to drive a wedge in the discussion to incite further bickering rather than continue a biblical discussion by saying things like: "what is stated is right vs your religious beliefs as taught in your church" or "what you believe.... but we know better, or we grace believers know better. Just because we have a different biblical understanding given to us by the Holy Spirit doesn't mean that we don't understand God's word. Just a heads up

Now let's get this topic back on track and not delve further into the teachings of Joseph Prince.

And what teachings you call false also bear witness of being true in other's hearts about what the word of God says on some subjects and in "correct context". It's all a matter of how one views what is said "in light of the finished work of Christ" or not.

If you are going to call people in the body of Christ false teachers because what they teach conflicts with your beliefs - I will stand against that if I think it violates the scriptures and if it waters down the work of Christ.

I have no problem discussing scriptures which I have done by directing you to the solid scriptures on "forgiveness" that we have in Christ and also that "falling from grace" is actually going back to the law for living. This is an anti-Christ belief system which violates the word of His grace and I make no bones about it.

I personally could care less if you believed Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but when it comes to the gospel of the grace of Christ - that I will defend and by bashing Prince as a false teacher about the gospel - this is exactly what you are doing - fostering a disparaging view on the gospel because of your attacks saying that it is false teaching.

I agree that sometimes language can put a wedge between people - I have read in the gospels Christ doing it all the time with the religious Pharisees and scribes of the law.

We have been religiously taught on many subjects instead of New Testament Christ-centered taught and I am still getting my mind cleared from many religious fallacies that I have been taught from my church upbringing - so I just call it for what it is - my/others religious teachings. Remember Jesus said that we make the word of God of no effect because of our traditions. I would also read Col. 2:6-8 again too. "See to it that no one takes you captive..."

I'm not saying that us grace believers know everything but we have been shown the truth by the Holy Spirit of the beautiful finished work of Christ and that any law added to grace - leavens the whole lump - which makes us fallen from grace.

So, it's kind of important to live by grace through faith in Christ's work which is why believers in what Christ has done stand firm in that area against religious beliefs that nullify the word of God in our lives.

I would be very careful if I were you about calling people whom Christ has set in the body as teachers - to be calling them false because some of their teachings is not the way you view them or because they still "conflict" with what you were taught.

 

[popeye]

Falling from grace is like a neglected house. Run down,no maintenance,or a frog slowly boiled in water.

Has to do with sin,neglect,and walking carnally.

So those who have no house, what are they then?

Making an analogy to illustrate a point,not some all encompassing promotion of doctrine.

Maintenance is something we do,and is not framed under losing or not losing salvation. Falling from grace is God's bit. I don't have to decide their fate.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace is unmerited favor....you can't fall in and out of it. Its not a state of being.

It is when God moves in the life of a sinner, touches their heart and gives them enough faith to believe the gospel of what Christ has done for us upon the cross.

We don't add to our grace, we add to our faith....

Still trying to understand how anyone can "fall from grace".

Well...we can grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ as Peter says in 2 Peter 3:18.


We also do "fall from grace" - which means "to drop away" because we are depending on the law for righteousness ( the law is anything we do to justify ourselves )

Galatians 5:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

You have been severed from Christ means that we are not receiving what Christ's grace provides because of our own self-effort in trying to obtain things. These people are still saved and going to heaven - just that grace does not "work" for them because they are trusting in their own works.