A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

[InSpiritInTruth]

The word “Christian” by definition is a follower of Jesus Christ, which means a follower of Jesus Christs teachings. Notice the word Christian in 1 Peter 4:16…

Yet [SUP]G1161[/SUP] if [SUP]G1487[/SUP] any man suffer as [SUP]G5613[/SUP] a Christian, [SUP]G5546[/SUP] let him [SUP]G153[/SUP] [SUP]G0[/SUP] not [SUP]G3361[/SUP] be ashamed; [SUP]G153[/SUP] but [SUP]G1161[/SUP] let him glorify [SUP]G1392[/SUP] God [SUP]G2316[/SUP] on [SUP]G1722[/SUP] this [SUP]G5129[/SUP] behalf. [SUP]G3313[/SUP]


The word Christian G5546 is defined as Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian.


But many who proclaim themselves to be “Christians” are not really “followers” of Jesus Christs teachings. As a matter of fact many of them proclaim Jesus’ teachings and sayings were not for them to follow, but only to the Jews, as some M.A.D. doctrine teaches. And some also go on to teach that Jesus and the Apostles before Paul taught a works based gospel message for salvation, and that it was not until Paul became a Christian that the body of Christ first began, and the true message of grace was first being taught, basically saying Paul taught a different gospel message than Jesus. This is also one reason they reject Jesus Christs teachings, sayings, and commands as for them to follow.


But there is also a movement called “hyper grace” which is spin off of the same false grace message which includes the early beliefs of “Antinomianism.” Here is what their cult leader Joseph Prince teaches about following Jesus Christ’s DOCTRINE= teachings, sayings, and commands…... “21- We can’t take doctrine from the gospels because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead yet.”(end quote)


So in effect they disregard the very words of Jesus Christ and His doctrine, and even in some cases they reject OT scripture and all the other apostles besides Paul as being “legalism” or “works based”. And by disregarding and by not keeping the doctrine, teachings, commands, words, and sayings of Jesus Christ, they are in Truth not really “followers” of Jesus Christ and His teachings. Therefore by definition they are not truly “Christians” but just followers of the doctrines of men, like Joseph Prince.


This theology of not following Jesus’ doctrine, even by their own confession, proves they are not truly “followers” of Jesus Christ and His teachings. To follow Jesus Christ and his teachings, commands, and sayings is action word, as to follow and to keep, and to do God’s will, and to obey as is an act of obedience by being a righteous servant of Jesus Christ.

Jesus says to follow me, to do the will of His Father, to keep His words, commandments, and sayings. This is repeated over and over again by the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


Matthew 16:24 “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 7:21 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 8:15 “But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”

Luke 11:28 “But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.


John 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

John 14:24 “He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”

1 John 2:5 “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.”

John 14:15 “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
John 14:21 “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”

John 15:10 “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”

John 8:51 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

John 8:52 “Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.”

John 15:20 “Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.


Beware of these cult followings, which in truth are not truly Christian by definition.

 

[Grace777x70]

More mis-representation of what is being said of those that do believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ., - as usual but this is always expected of you. So, in order to keep the lies, malice and slander down to a minimum - here below is what believers in the grace of Christ "actually do believe."

I'll trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to those that have an open heart for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is an article that reveals the truth about what is really being said:

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections

Is Hyper-Grace “dangerous” or “imbalanced”?

Author: Jeremy White/Thursday, August 21, 2014/Categories: Jeremy White, Top Picks


Introduction:

In recent times, a label has surfaced regarding what some view as a “dangerous” or “imbalanced” teaching of the grace of God. “Hyper-Grace” is now a term being used to suggest that there are some folks (such as myself) who “take God’s grace too far” and in so doing either ignore or minimize other significant teachings of the Bible.

What follows is an attempt to address a few of the most common “warnings” some have offered regarding those of us who make much of the finished work of Christ.

Objection #1: The Hyper-Grace Gospel is Unbiblical

For starters, you may be shocked to discover that “hyper-grace” is really the only adequate description for grace in the first place, according to the Bible. For example, when Paul wrote in Romans 5:20 that “…where sin increased, grace increased all the more” he was literally referring to God’s grace as “hyper.”

The Greek term for the phrase “increased all the more” (NIV) is huper-perisseuo which literally means “super-abounded.” Hyper is simply a transliteration of the prefix “huper” in Greek and means “above and beyond” in scope or quality. The term “perisseuo” refers to that which is “in far excess of what might be expected, superfluous or gratuitous.”

So in Paul’s description of God’s amazing grace, he is literally saying that because of the abundance of sin in this world, God’s grace has super-abounded in order to rescue us from sin! Paul literally describes God’s grace as HYPER in this passage. It is super-abundant and unfathomably plentiful and powerful. In fact, a few verses later Paul would state that the very reason sin is no longer our master is because we are no longer under law, but under this hyper-abounding grace (Rom. 6:14)!

If this is what one means by “hyper-grace,” then count me in as one of the “grace-heretics!” It is a label that was applied to both Paul and Jesus by the Pharisees of their day, so I am more than happy to wear it in ours. As the late scholar D. Martin Lloyd-Jones famously pointed out (andthis is my paraphrase), "If people do not sometimes misunderstand and falsely accuse you of being soft-on-sin or against God’s law, you are not preaching the real gospel!"


Objection #2: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Soft on Sin

This is a common one, of course. The idea here is that because of our high esteem of the finished work of Christ and our insistence upon keeping our eyes fixated on Jesus as Author and Finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:2), we are either afraid to preach against sin or do not take sin seriously enough.

Far from being “soft on sin” – we who preach grace are extremely big on Jesus. Any gospel worthy of the hyper-grace label is a gospel which points all fingers toward Jesus rather than judgmentally pointing them at those He came to save.

There are definitely many contexts in which it is appropriate to talk about sin, warn about sin and preach against sin. I do this routinely in my preaching ministry, as do my friends who are also labeled as hyper-grace preachers. Sin is bad. It is ugly. It brings death to everything it touches. It grieves God. It makes us miserable. It comes with a variety of consequences.

No legitimate grace-preacher that I am aware of minimizes the reality that sin is evil, wrong, bad, unproductive and unfitting for a new creation in Christ. What we DO focus on, however, is the Answer to sin, which is Jesus – and the fact that His grace alone is precisely what delivers us from its penalty (death), its power (enslavement) and eventually even its very presence (when we live in the fullness of His heavenly kingdom one day).

I talk about sin all the time, but not as a means of manipulating, judging or condemning people. I talk about sin so as to help people understand both their daily and eternal need for Jesus as Savior and Lord. We hyper-grace preachers are simply standing with Paul on the promise that it is the grace of God which “teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously and godly in the present age…” (Titus 2:11-13).

Paul taught that the power of sin is the law (1 Cor. 15:56). If a person wants to ensure that they will remain in slavery to life-dominating sin and addiction, one simple way to do that is to live under a law-based mentality. A grace-saturated life, however, frees us from the grip of sin’s mastery over us. Far from being soft on sin, we take sin very seriously. So seriously that we are pointing people unapologetically to the only Source of rescue from it! That Source is not trying harder to be a good person, culturally-espoused self-help tactics or pop-psychology.

That Source is Jesus Christ and the grace He alone offers.


Objection #3: Hyper-Grace Preachers Don’t Believe in Repentance

Not only do we believe in repentance, but we seek to understand and teach it thoroughly and accurately. In the New Testament, “to repent” is a translation of the Greek verb “metanoeo” meaning “to change one’s mind or perspective.” Obviously, when we receive Christ, we have repented in the genuine sense of the term – changing our minds about our need of a Savior and receiving Christ.

Before Christ, we lived as self-sufficiently as possible, thinking that God would probably grade on a curve and accept us at least partly on the basis of our own best efforts and self-generated goodness. When we came to understand our spiritual bankruptcy and our desperate need for Christ’s forgiveness and new life, we repented (had a change of perspective) and received Christ by trusting in Him alone to rescue us.

Beyond this initial experience of “getting saved” (as we often call it), repentance is a daily lifestyle in which an ongoing “renewal of the mind” process is taking place within us. As we grow in faith and in our understanding of God through His Word and our union with His Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17), we begin to replace old thinking with new thinking and false thinking with true thinking. This renewal of the mind (Rom. 12:1-3) is an integral part of the transformative process of the Spirit’s work in our lives. This is the essence of a lifestyle of repentance – taking false thoughts captive, making them obedient to (in conformity with) Christ (2 Cor. 10:5).

Paul affirmed in no uncertain terms that God’s kindness (His expressed grace toward us) is what leads to repentance (Rom. 2:4). Far from being anti-repentance, hyper-grace theology affirms repentance and the ongoing renewal of the mind as an integral part of what it means to follow Jesus under His New Covenant.


Objection #4: Hyper-Grace Preachers Are Against Confession of Sin

This is one of the most common misrepresentations of hyper-grace theology. The Biblical term “to confess” simply means “to speak the same thing as” or “to agree with.” We teach that confession is important because we should yield our minds to agreement with God about everything He reveals – including, but not limited to, sin.

What we often also teach (and this is where the rub is with some people) is that confession is not about triggering any transaction between us and God that would issue forth more forgiveness, as though God were dispensing forgiveness in various doses based upon our confessions. Forgiveness of sin is something that was provided objectively ONE time by ONE act of grace through ONE Savior who shed His blood on the cross for us 2000 years ago. As the book of Hebrews repeatedly emphasizes, He is the “once for all” sacrifice for sin.

Confession of sin then, is about humility and walking in agreement with God – not about getting more forgiveness from Him. Some will suggest that God’s forgiveness is dispensed using a “two-tiered” approach. On one level, they say, God has forgiven our sins judicially and objectively through the cross. On the second tier, however, we need to confess our sins in order to receive “relational” or“experiential” forgiveness in order to maintain close fellowship with God.

This two-tiered approach is nowhere taught in the New Testament, and has only been popularized because of two basic levels of rationale. The first is based upon a misinterpretation of two passages in the New Testament, both of which have been clearly explained in books and sermons by a host of solid gospel teachers. These two passages are Matthew 6:12 (where Jesus appears to be commanding His followers to ask for God’s forgiveness) and 1 John 1:9 (which seems to link forgiveness to confession of sin).

In my book “The Gospel Uncut: Learning to Rest in the Grace of God” I deal with these passages quite clearly, as do other authors such as Bob George, Andrew Farley, Ralph Harris, Paul Ellis, Cathy Hildebrand and Andrew Nelson. I encourage you to investigate these writings for yourself in order to understand the context in which these passages were intended to be understood.

The bottom-line is this. We hyper-grace preachers DO value confession of sin. We also practice confession of sin in our own lives. However, we understand confession to be about agreeing with God concerning the foolishness of our sin rather than begging for forgiveness based upon a humanly-invented two-tiered approach to somehow "maintaining close fellowship" with Him.

Our fellowship with God was purchased unconditionally and irreversibly by Jesus at the cross. Once we receive that fellowship by simple faith in Christ, it is our eternal possession regardless of our recent performance or track-record. As I’ve written in my book, The Gospel Uncut:

"The way I now approach confession is to simply agree with God about the foolishness of my sin. I admit to Him that my sin hurts me as well as others and that it fails to bring glory to His Name. Often I am sorrowful over the foolishness of my actions. The Apostle Paul wrote that there is a “godly sorrow that brings repentance” (2 Cor. 10:7). When I know I have sinned, I humbly admit that my sinful behavior is out of step with my new nature and identity in Him, and I ask Him to help me rest in His completed work. Now here comes the best part! After agreeing with God about my sin, I begin thanking Him for the fact that this sinful act was already forgiven at the cross. Understanding these realities has literally transformed my practice of confession, changing the experience from a guilt-ridden begging session into a dynamic, worshipful encounter in which my conscious mind (and behavior) is realigned with the grace and truth of Jesus.

So yes! By all means confess your sin to God! Agree with Him about sin and everything else He has revealed. But don’t think of confession as a means of obtaining something that Jesus Christ died “once for all” to secure for you. Remember that confession is about humility and the ongoing renewal of the mind process – and never about getting something from God that is already yours in abundance through the finished work of Christ. If you are a believer in Christ, you are NEVER out of fellowship with God. Fellowship is an identity issue, meaning that you now share "all things in common" with God as a joint-heir with Christ (Rom. 8:17)! This never has been and never will be based upon your behavioral performance and is not something that you must confess sin in order to have reinstated! Because of Christ, you are always clean and God is always close!


Objection #5: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against God’s Law

Some take this claim so far as to suggest that we even want to throw out or ignore the Old Testament. Wow! What wild imaginations these accusers have! The truth is that we are by no means antinomian (against the law of God), nor do we disbelieve or avoid teaching the Old Testament. Most of us actually esteem the power and purpose of God’s law so highly that we understand grace to be the only way of escape from its impossibly stringent demands.

Paul shared in Romans 3 and elsewhere that God’s purposes for the law were two-fold: 1) to stop our self-righteous excuses, minimizations and justifications of our sin and 2) to reveal our desperate need of a Savior by grace through faith. The entire thrust of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount was to bury His very self-righteous audience under the weight of one inescapable reality: “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the world’s most stringent law-keepers (the Pharisees and teachers of the law) you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt.5:20).

That Jesus came to “fulfill” the Law (Matt. 5:17) means that He came to keep its demands perfectly because He knew that we couldn’t and wouldn’t. He fulfilled the stringent demands of the Law on our behalf as our Substitute so that His record of perfection could be credited to our spiritual account when we received Him by grace through faith. He did what you and I couldn’t and wouldn’t, and the Sermon on the Mount is a damning indictment of anyone who thinks they can measure up to God’s standards on their own effort.

And have you heard of this “cheap grace” idea? Sometimes the term is ripped off and redefined from Bonhoeffer’s vocabulary to insinuate that the hyper-grace movement has cheapened the grace of God by making it “too easy” for people to attain. After all, we live in a world where there’s no such thingas a free lunch, right? We certainly don't believe or teach that grace is cheap. It cost Jesus His life! But we DO agree with the New Testament that His grace is FREE to those who receive it freely by faith.

The truth of the matter is that hyper-grace teachers are not guilty of promoting cheap grace at all. Rather, our critics are often guilty of promoting cheap Law! Far from being anti-law, WE are the ones who esteem God's Law so highly as to conclude that there is no escape from its condemnation apart from faith in Christ alone! The Law is an all-or-nothing proposition. To stumble in just one aspect of keeping it is the equivalent of breaking all of it (James 2:10). The Law is a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7-11). The Law is not the bad guy, however. It simply points out who the bad guys are (the world, the flesh and the devil)! The Law is holy and pure and designed to show us what sin is (Rom.7:7).

But living under Law cannot save, change or transform a single heart – only grace can! And this is why we are so adamant about never mixing a law-based mentality with a grace-based mentality toward spiritual life or growth under God’s New Covenant. The New Testament repeatedly affirms that our salvation and sanctification are either completely by law or completely by grace, but cannot be a result of mixing the two.


Conclusion:

With all of that said, the idea of trying to somehow “balance grace” with anything is ludicrous according to both Scripture and plain reason. Grace, by definition, is radically IMBALANCED in our favor! If it were not, it would cease to be grace on that very basis! The term “hyper-grace” is far from insulting! It is in fact the ONLY kind of grace taught, supported and promoted in the Bible.

God understands that His grace is open to the possibility of abuse by those who might misunderstand it. He understands that people may take His grace for granted or even at times misrepresent it as a license to sin. Paul addressed those concerns very clearly, as did Jesus and the other New Testament writers.

However, the fact that grace is open to misinterpretation and the possibility of abuse does not give us license to water it down, explain it away or cheapen its glory by adding a single measure of law into it as an attempt to stay "balanced." There is nothing balanced whatsoever about the grace of God! We rejoice in that! We celebrate that! We proclaim that without apology!

May God reveal His hyper-grace more clearly to you in the days ahead! Feel free to chime in with your thoughts below.
(For a more exhaustive treatment of this critical subject, check out the book "The Hyper-Grace Gospel" by my friend Paul Ellis )

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is a link below for those who want to know what these cult followers really believe, and the lies and heresy they spread being followers of carnally minded men's doctrine, and not "followers" of the teachings and doctrines of Jesus Christ.

Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

 

[Grace777x70]

When someone never talks about Jesus and His love and grace but in all posts there is nothing but condemnation, demonic, death, sin and accursedness and evil and hatred - there is something wrong.

The gospel of the grace of Christ is never spoken of - the Lord Jesus and His beauty is never spoken about. All this speaks volumes to me.

Jesus in His own words had this to say about "this spirit".

Luke 9:54-56 (NASB)
[SUP]54 [/SUP] When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"

[SUP]55 [/SUP] But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

[SUP]56 [/SUP] for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

When someone never talks about Jesus and His love and grace but in all posts there is nothing but condemnation, demonic, death, sin and accursedness and evil and hatred - there is something wrong.

Right from the Joseph Prince playbook.....

37-We shouldn’t talk about sin, repentance or judgment from the pulpit, we should only talk about the goodness of God

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the devil, his lies, and his brood of vipers= many deceivers. Jesus gave me power over the enemy, and power to tread on serpents and scorpions.


Luke 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

 

[FreeNChrist]

A Christian is a Christ-one who is led by the living indwelling Christ....and we follow where He leads.

 

[PrynceNY]

Right from the Joseph Prince playbook.....

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the devil, his lies, and his brood of vipers= many deceivers. Jesus gave me power over the enemy, and power to tread on serpents and scorpions.


Luke 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

You can probably include that as the Joel Osteen playbook as well. I dont think i ever heard him preach about repentance & judgement. He tries so hard to not "offend" people instead of preaching the word of God. As the scriptures tells us not to be ashamed of Gods word.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

A Christian is a Christ-one who is led by the living indwelling Christ....and we follow where He leads.

I already showed in my OP that Christian means a follower of Jesus Christ, which is the Word=words of God=follower of God's words, saying, teachings, commands given to Jesus by God the Father to speak, and then for us to follow.

 

[Grace777x70]

I already showed in my OP that Christian means a follower of Jesus Christ, which is the Word=words of God=follower of God's words, saying, teachings, commands given to Jesus by God the Father to speak, and then for us to follow.

None of us dispute the words of God or Jesus - what we dispute is your "application" of those words and also the "spirit" that drives your posts. Post #4 describes your so-called ministry which is NOT from the Holy Spirit - that is what most people here reject concerning your posts.

 

[Grace777x70]

Right from the Joseph Prince playbook.....

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the devil, his lies, and his brood of vipers= many deceivers. Jesus gave me power over the enemy, and power to tread on serpents and scorpions.


Luke 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Yes John did speak that to the self-righteous as well as Jesus did too. The D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness religion is what John and Christ were talking about.

 

[Grace777x70]

You can probably include that as the Joel Osteen playbook as well. I dont think i ever heard him preach about repentance & judgement. He tries so hard to not "offend" people instead of preaching the word of God. As the scriptures tells us not to be ashamed of Gods word.

And have you listened to all of his teachings in order to say that some people never speak about repentance and judgment? Of course not - you are making a judgment on people from your own thoughts or maybe read on a heretic-hunter website.

There is definitely repentance in the New Covenant and it is a blessing and gift from our Father. There is judgment coming too on those that reject Christ when He comes back.

 

[valiant]

I already showed in my OP that Christian means a follower of Jesus Christ, which is the Word=words of God=follower of God's words, saying, teachings, commands given to Jesus by God the Father to speak, and then for us to follow.

you are incorrect. A Christian is a disciple of the church of the Apostles per the Scriptures (Acts 11.28). What that then means must be surmised, or proved.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You can probably include that as the Joel Osteen playbook as well. I dont think i ever heard him preach about repentance & judgement. He tries so hard to not "offend" people instead of preaching the word of God. As the scriptures tells us not to be ashamed of Gods word.

I never really payed much attention to t.v. preachers, nor for the doctrines of any man for that matter, just only applying myself to God's written words and discerning them by the Holy Spirit. But when I began to post online I started seeing all these different strange ideas and doctrines, and wanted to know where these perverted doctrines were coming from.

I didn't even know what WOF teachings were, or MAD teachings were, or Hyper grace teachings were until I started looking at what these teachers of it have to say via the internet, because I do not have cable t.v. But you can see where these followers of "hyper grace" and followers of Joseph Prince are getting this twisted and perverted doctrine from by looking at their teachers.

I post at another forum where it is over run with MAD followers, and they are just as bad as the "hyper grace" followers when it comes to perverting the words of God. I don't know much about Joel Osteen, but you have to realize that speaking the whole gospel truth about repenting of sin and the lusts of the flesh and walking in righteousness is not going to be a very popular thing to those who just want to hear "good things" about their own sinful condition. These false teachers omit to tell people that the proof of a true conversion and rebirth and sanctification, and the true sign of God's grace actually working in a believer is by them being set free from the bondage of sin and the ways of the world, and then them walking in righteousness=righteous living and doing.

The reason they do not want to offend of course is because that also hurts the cash flow to their ministry. In this we also see who they truly serve.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I already showed in my OP that Christian means a follower of Jesus Christ, which is the Word=words of God=follower of God's words, saying, teachings, commands given to Jesus by God the Father to speak, and then for us to follow.

No, it means a Christ-one. And we who are Christ-ones follow where Christ leads.

 

[Grace777x70]

People do not dispute the words of scripture - what most here do is dispute your "application" of those words and then you try to condemn others that don't adhere to your application of those words - and thus then label them as "not followers of Christ" and of course they are all heretics with "itching ears"...all this is complete nonsense.

Let's compare ISIT's religion with the words of Jesus to see what words are being followed.

1) Jesus did say in John 6:37 that He would not cast us out and in Heb. 13:5 that He would never leave nor forsake us

- ISIT's religion says - "Yes, He will leave you if you sin , your righteousness depends on what you do."

2) Jesus said in John 14:28-29 that no one ( which includes everyone ) can pluck them out on MY hand or My Father's hand

- ISIT's religion says - "yes, we can pluck ourselves from God - we are mightier than Jesus and the Father."

3) Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with you forever as well as 2 John1:3 says that the truth will be with us forever too. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth.

- ISIT's religion says "No, the Holy Spirit will leave you if you don't measure up and maintain your own righteousness".

4) Jesus says in John 3:16 "whoever believes in Me shall never perish but have everlasting life." ( and in a dozen other places as well )

- ISIT's religion says " No that's not true - if you don't maintain your own righteousness you will perish". It is all about what "you" do.

5) Paul says in Eph 1:13 " That when we believed we received the Holy Spirit and He has sealed us until the day of redemption."

- ISIT's religion says - " No, the Holy Spirit will leave you because of a sin you have done".

This religion "conflicts" with the New Covenant and so everyone that doesn't agree with his "application" of scripture is labeled a heretic.

Have you ever heard of the New Covenant? This is the our true ministry in the New Covenant.

Hebrews 10:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Romans 4:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP] "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."


We can see that some have no idea what the gospel of the grace of Christ actually is. Paul tells us that God was in Christ - not counting their sins against them.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Did you see what our ministry is to be in the New Covenant? We are to give people the "word of reconciliation" that is already been made for them. This is why your religion and posts are NOT the gospel in any shape or form.

Is there a judgment coming for those that reject Christ - Yes....all the more reason to preach the true gospel of the grace of Christ to people.

We don't have the ministry of condemnation as this what your religion gives out - but we have the gospel of the grace of Christ which is the ministry of reconciliation - this is the ministry that God approves. Come over into the New Covenant!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yes John did speak that to the self-righteous as well as Jesus did too. The D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness religion is what John and Christ were talking about.

The brood of vipers and serpents are those who are of the serpents seed, those who do the lusts of their father the Devil= seed of evil doers, hypocrites, workers of iniquity, sons of Belial, and many liars and deceivers, even worldly and carnal false teachers who come in the name of Christ but are really of the spirit of this world, and of the Prince of this world, much like Joseph Prince.

 

[PrynceNY]

I never really payed much attention to t.v. preachers, nor for the doctrines of any man for that matter, just only applying myself to God's written words and discerning them by the Holy Spirit. But when I began to post online I started seeing all these different strange ideas and doctrines, and wanted to know where these perverted doctrines were coming from.

I didn't even know what WOF teachings were, or MAD teachings were, or Hyper grace teachings were until I started looking at what these teachers of it have to say via the internet, because I do not have cable t.v. But you can see where these followers of "hyper grace" and followers of Joseph Prince are getting this twisted and perverted doctrine from by looking at their teachers.

I post at another forum where it is over run with MAD followers, and they are just as bad as the "hyper grace" followers when it comes to perverting the words of God. I don't know much about Joel Osteen, but you have to realize that speaking the whole gospel truth about repenting of sin and the lusts of the flesh and walking in righteousness is not going to be a very popular thing to those who just want to hear "good things" about their own sinful condition. These false teachers omit to tell people that the proof of a true conversion and rebirth and sanctification, and the true sign of God's grace actually working in a believer is by them being set free from the bondage of sin and the ways of the world, and then them walking in righteousness=righteous living and doing.

The reason they do not want to offend of course is because that also hurts the cash flow to their ministry. In this we also see who they truly serve.

Yea, as the scriptures state in (2 Timothy 4:3) For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
I personally never heard of "MAD teachings" & "Hyper grace" before. The bizarre names reflects it's teachings it seems

 

[valiant]

I never really payed much attention to t.v. preachers, nor for the doctrines of any man for that matter, just only applying myself to God's written words and discerning them by the Holy Spirit. But when I began to post online I started seeing all these different strange ideas and doctrines, and wanted to know where these perverted doctrines were coming from.

I didn't even know what WOF teachings were, or MAD teachings were, or Hyper grace teachings were until I started looking at what these teachers of it have to say via the internet, because I do not have cable t.v. But you can see where these followers of "hyper grace" and followers of Joseph Prince are getting this twisted and perverted doctrine from by looking at their teachers.

I post at another forum where it is over run with MAD followers, and they are just as bad as the "hyper grace" followers when it comes to perverting the words of God. I don't know much about Joel Osteen, but you have to realize that speaking the whole gospel truth about repenting of sin and the lusts of the flesh and walking in righteousness is not going to be a very popular thing to those who just want to hear "good things" about their own sinful condition. These false teachers omit to tell people that the proof of a true conversion and rebirth and sanctification, and the true sign of God's grace actually working in a believer is by them being set free from the bondage of sin and the ways of the world, and then them walking in righteousness=righteous living and doing.

The reason they do not want to offend of course is because that also hurts the cash flow to their ministry. In this we also see who they truly serve.

I have never heard of the people you mention. I obtained my knowledge of the free grace of God directly from the Scriptures and I expect heretics to say 'you are teaching shall we continue in sin that grace may abound' because they said that against Paul ,,

 

[Grace777x70]

The brood of vipers and serpents are those who are of the serpents seed, those who do the lusts of their father the Devil= seed of evil doers, hypocrites, workers of iniquity, sons of Belial, and many liars and deceivers, even worldly and carnal false teachers who come in the name of Christ but are really of the spirit of this world, and of the Prince of this world, much like Joseph Prince.

Time to grow up in the Lord.

1 Peter 2:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

People do not dispute the words of scripture - what most here do is dispute your "application" of those words and then you try to condemn others that don't adhere to your application of those words - and thus then label them as "not followers of Christ" and of course they are all heretics with "itching ears"...all this is complete nonsense.

Let's compare ISIT's religion with the words of Jesus to see what words are being followed.

1) Jesus did say in John 6:37 that He would not cast us out and in Heb. 13:5 that He would never leave nor forsake us

- ISIT's religion says - "Yes, He will leave you if you sin , your righteousness depends on what you do."

2) Jesus said in John 14:28-29 that no one ( which includes everyone ) can pluck them out on MY hand or My Father's hand

- ISIT's religion says - "yes, we can pluck ourselves from God - we are mightier than Jesus and the Father."

3) Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with you forever as well as 2 John1:3 says that the truth will be with us forever too. The Holy spirit is the Spirit of truth.

- ISIT's religion says "No, the Holy Spirit will leave you if you don't measure up and maintain your own righteousness".

4) Jesus says in John 3:16 "whoever believes in Me shall never perish but have everlasting life." ( and in a dozen other places as well )

- ISIT's religion says " No that's not true - if you don't maintain your own righteousness you will perish". It is all about what "you" do.

5) Paul says in Eph 1:13 " That when we believed we received the Holy Spirit and He has sealed us until the day of redemption."

- ISIT's religion says - " No, the Holy Spirit will leave you because of a sin you have done".

This religion "conflicts" with the New Covenant and so everyone that doesn't agree with his "application" of scripture is labeled a heretic.

Have you ever heard of the New Covenant? This is the our true ministry in the New Covenant.

Hebrews 10:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Romans 4:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP] "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."


We can see that some have no idea what the gospel of the grace of Christ actually is. Paul tells us that God was in Christ - not counting their sins against them.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Did you see what our ministry is to be in the New Covenant? We are to give people the "word of reconciliation" that is already been made for them. This is why your religion and posts are NOT the gospel in any shape or form.

We don't have the ministry of condemnation as this what your religion gives out - but we have the gospel of the grace of Christ which is the ministry of reconciliation - this is the ministry that God approves. Come over into the New Covenant!

Try actually quoting my own words instead of trying to misrepresent my words by injecting your own false assumptions and false accusations into them. It's bad enough you try to misrepresent the words of God.