Lasciviousness...

[AuntieAnt]

James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law (Jesus), the law of liberty, and abides by it (Jesus), not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

This is plain truth. The man who looks into the mirror and sees himself is the man walking in his own understanding. But the man who has his eyes on the Law of the Spirit of Life (Christ Jesus) doesn't need a mirror. He has become an effectual doer because Christ is directing him. This man will be blessed in whatever he does because it's Christ doing it through him.

 

[gb9]

I invite anyone reading this to look at the last paragraph of post #91 and the first paragraph of post # 94. last time I checked, saying that you did not say something that YOU JUST SAID would qualify as a lie. and a lie is a sin. so any talk of righteousness from the person is totally false as long as blatant lies are being told. and should be ignored.

 

[Grace777x70]

No one says that sharing about righteousness and walking in victory is bad company.

This is just a product of twisted thinking that "reformulates" what is said and then makes up an entirely different "thought" and then proceeds to attack this "made up thought" as if it is real in the first place.

This is one of the real reasons we need to avoid certain types of people. There is something drastically wrong with their thinking processing ability that complete distorts what is really being said.

It is a complete waste of time and effort in dealing with these types of people until they repent and start speaking real truth and not what they "make-up" in their own minds.

So, Romans 16:17 and 1 Cor. 15:33 apply.

 

[PeterJens]

I invite anyone reading this to look at the last paragraph of post #91 and the first paragraph of post # 94. last time I checked, saying that you did not say something that YOU JUST SAID would qualify as a lie. and a lie is a sin. so any talk of righteousness from the person is totally false as long as blatant lies are being told. and should be ignored.

If you want to say I am dictating what you believe, ie drawing the wrong conclusions
about how you behave and believe, which is what I took you to mean I hold that is not
what I am doing. If you want to say I am drawing conclusions about what you believe
then that is true. I do not deny I do this all the time when people write about their beliefs
and act a particular way. You do this to me all the time, lol.

So again telling the truth or a lie, can be often the interpretation of what is being said and
meant. So I do rather laugh at your attempt to condemn me of sin.

Why do you want to do this? So you can say you can ignore me.

But you do this anyway, but I suppose you want to justify calling me evil.
But you prove my point again. Why am I so evil, when I follow Christ?
Why am I so evil if I uphold the commands of Christ?

If you make me your enemy you make Christ your enemy. I have no desire that
you do either of these things, so why the antagonism unless ofcourse you are
testifying to the ideas that are within you?

Christ put it that if you are not for Him you are against Him. I wish only to be with
my Lord and saviour and I invite you to also.

 

[Gr8grace]

I invite anyone reading this to look at the last paragraph of post #91 and the first paragraph of post # 94. last time I checked, saying that you did not say something that YOU JUST SAID would qualify as a lie. and a lie is a sin. so any talk of righteousness from the person is totally false as long as blatant lies are being told. and should be ignored.

It depends on what "is" is. Even Bill Clinton will be envious of the reply your going to receive for this post.

 

[PinkDiamond]

I thought I'd add one thought to this discussion. I think a lot of issues people have with reconciling obedience to God and grace come from having been exposed to and enduring certain extreme views and teachings on this subject. Certain terms, okay or good in and of themselves, start to take on a bad connotation because of the way certain groups (or perhaps even certain posters here, as several are stating in this thread ) have used these terms or concepts to shape incorrect beliefs and doctrines. There are extreme views on both ends of the spectrum.

Martin Luther is a perfect example. His entire revelation was that we are justified through faith. This was a total departure from the corruption and works based faith that was being taught in the Catholic Church at the time. The realization was totally liberating and helped Luther to come to true salvation. I have read that Luther, later on, struggled for a time to understand the book of James and even in frustration tore the pages out of his Bible. James appeared to be a contradiction to his revelation of the just shall live by faith. In reality, there is no contradiction. Later on, Luther was quoted as saying ( as I posted earlier) that "Good works do not make a man good, but a saved man does good works." There is no legalism in emphasizing the need to live a righteous life. It's how we go about explaining how we achieve this that determines if we are approaching salvation from a faith or works perspective. God does command us to be holy as he is holy. Clearly he wouldn't command this if it wasn't attainable. The key is to seek his righteousness and grace and abide in him.

 

[PeterJens]

No one says that sharing about righteousness and walking in victory is bad company.

Then what specifically is bad company? You quoted these verses to imply an intent
that certain people are bad company for others.

So who are these people here on this thread and why do you regard them as bad company?

Now unless you fill in the blanks that is what everyone else does.
Paul was very plain. "sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people." 1 cor 5:11

Are you saying there are people here among this list?
If you believe so, on what grounds.

I know of no-one who is like this except for those who want to imply
something bad out of nothing. And that is the joke.

That it is these people who are putting down verses about bad company
when actually there is no bad company here, only people who are sincere
though differ in their outlooks. But this language does stirr up problems.

 

[Yet]

Not one stone left upon another of Juduism.
Hebrews 8:13. In that He says, a new covenat has He made, the first old, now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Gr8grace]

There is no legalism in emphasizing the need to live a righteous life.

It is ALL legalism if one believes salvation can be lost.

The Spirit testifies to our spirit that we will never perish, will NOT come into Judgement and that we HAVE eternal life.

If one believes they can lose salvation, it is another spirit and their "good" is all evil in the end.

 

[PeterJens]

It is ALL legalism if one believes salvation can be lost.

This is situational ethics.
You are saying that one aspect of faith or conviction changes everything else.

Paul uses this argument with love.
If you say that at the point of having faith in Christ you also believe he could go back
on His word, ie you call Jesus a potential liar, then you do not have faith in Him and are
undermining the cross.

If on the other hand you are saying if you loose faith in Christ, therefore cannot claim
the promise, because now you do not follow it, how is this denial of faith.

It seems logical if someone gives you a cheque for money, and you rip it up, you cannot
cash it in, it is lost. If you keep the cheque and believe it is true and honourable, then
you will cash it in.

Now I would hold anyone can rip up the cheque from Christ, which Jesus confirms in the
parable of the seed and sower, for only the good seed remains and has fruit.

 

[Gr8grace]

This is situational ethics.
You are saying that one aspect of faith or conviction changes everything else.

Paul uses this argument with love.
If you say that at the point of having faith in Christ you also believe he could go back
on His word, ie you call Jesus a potential liar, then you do not have faith in Him and are
undermining the cross.

If on the other hand you are saying if you loose faith in Christ, therefore cannot claim
the promise, because now you do not follow it, how is this denial of faith.

It seems logical if someone gives you a cheque for money, and you rip it up, you cannot
cash it in, it is lost. If you keep the cheque and believe it is true and honourable, then
you will cash it in.

Now I would hold anyone can rip up the cheque from Christ, which Jesus confirms in the
parable of the seed and sower, for only the good seed remains and has fruit.

This is situational dodging.

 

[PinkDiamond]

It is ALL legalism if one believes salvation can be lost.

The Spirit testifies to our spirit that we will never perish, will NOT come into Judgement and that we HAVE eternal life.

If one believes they can lose salvation, it is another spirit and their "good" is all evil in the end.

We do have slightly different views on this. Going into detail would derail this thread I will say this much, I believe that God corrects and disciplines his children when they stray or err and that true Christians will persevere in a Godly lifestyle to the end through the grace of God. If someone is living an openly sinful lifestyle with no remorse or concern that indicates a lack of real love for God or respect for his grace. I'd contend that that individual was never born of God in the first place. Even the weakest of Christians who is beset with struggles and sins does not take Christ for granted or seek to excuse their own sins. They are just weak and often fail to overcome in this life. If our emphasis on living a righteous life proceeds from a fear that we may lose our salvation than I agree that is legalism. That is really no different than those who try to earn salvation through good works.

 

[PeterJens]

This is situational dodging.

My friend, drawing conclusions out of everything is what I do.
Now some conclusions are wrong, but often they are exactly right and make
plain what is actually going on.

Now which would you rather, let things stay hidden or bring them out into the open.

Righteousness for me is something I have thought about for 40+ years. It is around
another question which is what is a totally authentic act. I realise some of these
questions become meaningless because the answer often is just how you define or
word it, because all the positions often have some truth to them.

It is why Jesus used the good samaritan parable, the enemy who did something good,
though he was the enemy and rejected as an unbeliever by jews.

Buried within the parable are also those who show righteousness but do not have love
or empathy for the person in need. Again this is a deep thread of criticism of Christs
message.

So it is no surprise to me I will look at things with particular perspectives, because
Christ has taught me these views.

But many do not know Jesus or His views, and think these stories are nothing or odd
things just meant for the Jews so of no concern. This has never been the christian
response, rather these stories are everything and deep treasures that continually
guide and give.

So I tell you my heart, and who I am, nothing is hidden. If you have faults for me
to address, I am happy to listen, but I listen first to Christ, so if you can use His
words then that will change my soul.

 

[Gr8grace]

If our emphasis on living a righteous life proceeds from a fear that we may lose our salvation than I agree that is legalism. That is really no different than those who try to earn salvation through good works.

This is what your seeing and what all the contention is about.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

lascivious
[luh-siv-ee-uh s]
adjective
1.
inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd:
a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.
2.
arousing sexual desire:
lascivious photographs.
3.
indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness:
a lascivious gesture.

Dictionary definition works fine. It's a term that doesn't apply to me with my lifestyle.

 

[ladylynn]

If you will do a study on the word "turning" the grace of God into lasciviousness - you will find that word "turning" really means "to replace" - "to take from one place to another". Grace has been "taken away"

It does not mean that people use grace as an excuse to live in lasciviousness as is sometimes incorrectly interpreted by I am sure are well-intentioned believers.

Here is a short 16 minute video that shows this clearly.

[video=youtube;5fIqZ5sPSEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg[/video]

I so very much appreciate this Pastor and learned about the Gospel of grace and truth from his preaching. Thanks for posting this Bruce!

 

[Gr8grace]

Now which would you rather, let things stay hidden or bring them out into the open.

Peter what is wrong? You seriously ask me this?

Do you not remember our exchange the other day?

Listen to Christ~~


John 10:28~~New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Rom 8~~38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Gr8grace]

I so very much appreciate this Pastor and learned about the Gospel of grace and truth from his preaching. Thanks for posting this Bruce!

I have not listened to him. Just bits and pieces of stuff that you folks have posted. Your testimony and Grace777 and others here of him is enough for me to see that he preaches Grace.

And the fact that the legalists DESPISE him. He must be pretty close to the truth.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have not listened to him. Just bits and pieces of stuff that you folks have posted. Your testimony and Grace777 and others here of him is enough for me to see that he preaches Grace.

And the fact that the legalists DESPISE him. He must be pretty close to the truth.

Now that made me laugh...lol....and there is a lot of truth in what you said about legalists "despise" him.

I would say that anyone of us which still has some church traditions solidly in our thinking would find some things offensive. I know I did when I first heard some truth about the grace of Christ.

But I sought the Lord and was willing to believe whatever the Spirit shows me - no matter what I "thought" I knew or the consequences this might bring.

In saying that - I don't agree with everything any teacher says and I pray in 2 years from now I won't agree with everything I believe today about Christ and His wondrous salvation.

I love repenting when I get a revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ that causes me to change my mind on how I view things. Repentance is a wonderful gift from our loving Father.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter what is wrong? You seriously ask me this?
Do you not remember our exchange the other day?
Listen to Christ~~
John 10:28~~New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Rom 8~~38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28
I am glad you quote Jesus. Jesus is talking about His sheep, who listen to His voice.
So many claim Jesus but do not listen to His voice or words, yet claim to have faith
in Him and believe in Him yet do not follow His commands. This suggests to me they
claim a lot but are not His sheep. The problem is we do not know who are really His
sheep and who are not. Claiming you are chosen is exactly what the Jews did, and
you see how Jesus described them.

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 5:24
Hearing Jesus words. I have heard many who claim Jesus as their Lord
but say he did not mean for us to build our house upon the rock and actually
put the sermon on the mount into action. So here we have people claiming to
have eternal life yet are deaf to Jesus's words. A true contradiction.

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8:37-30
A great verse. In christ we are more than conquerors. But I stand condemned by the
likes of you for walking and listening to Christs ways. You are not conquerors but defeated.
Paul is saying if we walk in conquering, in victory and overcoming sin by walking in the Spirit,
nothing can separate us from the love of God. But it is assuming you are fulfilling the promise
not denying it. It assumes you know Christ and His ways, have the fullness of the Spirit alive
in you.

So I say again, what is your issue. All the verses are conditional on our communion with Christ.
Without communion we will never overcome, never walk in victory, never know salvation.
You want something for no change. Christ is not a free gift, it is always conditional.
You need to recognise the very thing that has been given and walk in it and not dishonour
it, for being in the Kingdom is about knowing you are in the Kingdom and behaving appropriately.

It is like being made a king of country and still abusing everyone and mocking authority, you will
not remain King for long. The gift is real, but it can be taken away.

But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 24:48-51