Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine
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When Christ comes the next time it will be to destroy this corrupted world with his judgment it will be the last day the second and final resurrection. We have been in the last time for two thousand years, signaled by the renting of the veil the first coming of Christ in the flesh.
Six times in John God uses the phrase "last day" or the day of Christ to indicate the timing.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Six times in John God uses the phrase "last day" or the day of Christ to indicate the timing.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Hi Garee,
2000 years would be one third of the time that man has been on the earth, and so I would hardly call 2000 years ago as being in the last days. I believe that some of the apostles use that term in scripture, but I think that it was because to them Christ's return was imminent and they believed that they were in the last days, but obviously were not. Also, what brings you to the conclusion that the last days were signaled by the veil being torn in two? I would make a correction in that, the veil being rent was God's way of saying that people now had direct access to Him via Christ's sacrifice.
2000 years would be one third of the time that man has been on the earth, and so I would hardly call 2000 years ago as being in the last days. I believe that some of the apostles use that term in scripture, but I think that it was because to them Christ's return was imminent and they believed that they were in the last days, but obviously were not. Also, what brings you to the conclusion that the last days were signaled by the veil being torn in two? I would make a correction in that, the veil being rent was God's way of saying that people now had direct access to Him via Christ's sacrifice.
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven .Corrupted flesh and corrupted dying creation show it.
Aging in a decaying process leading toward death is the witness of His wrath .Which began in the garden after He corrupted it and it brought death.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:1-2
The above confirms Christ has come, as our confidence as to who begun the good work of salvation in us. He will finish it to the end.the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. For as many as the Father has given to the Son, they will come. He will in no wise cast out those He has had mercy on.
1Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you "will" perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
That last day as that day below shall not come until the falling away. We are in the last days the falling away is here.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2Th 2:3-5
We can see that the mystery of iniquity does already work: Satan who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, only he who now lets will let, until Satan be taken out of the way. on the last day the brightness of his coming, the second resurrection day
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
That portion above reveals we are in the last days because of the first century reformation there is no longer an outward representative in regard to the flesh of any man, any nation.. The veil is rent. The Jews and temple worship in respect to the ceremonial laws as shadows are not part of the new order.
This is when Satan can get his foot in the door called, the falling away, using men that are deceived into believing we do need a man to teach us. That is Satan who has no form as the antichrist as to his motive of operation.
The believers are considered the temple of God. For if any man has not the Spirit of Christ than neither do they belong to Him. It possible to belong to a church and not be born again . Just as it was in the Old testament when there was an outward expression used as a shadow pointing to the coming of Christ many Jews worshiped the shadows that pointed ahead to the suffering of Christ and the glory that did follow. .
Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
2Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Aging in a decaying process leading toward death is the witness of His wrath .Which began in the garden after He corrupted it and it brought death.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:1-2
The above confirms Christ has come, as our confidence as to who begun the good work of salvation in us. He will finish it to the end.the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. For as many as the Father has given to the Son, they will come. He will in no wise cast out those He has had mercy on.
1Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you "will" perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
That last day as that day below shall not come until the falling away. We are in the last days the falling away is here.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2Th 2:3-5
We can see that the mystery of iniquity does already work: Satan who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, only he who now lets will let, until Satan be taken out of the way. on the last day the brightness of his coming, the second resurrection day
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
That portion above reveals we are in the last days because of the first century reformation there is no longer an outward representative in regard to the flesh of any man, any nation.. The veil is rent. The Jews and temple worship in respect to the ceremonial laws as shadows are not part of the new order.
This is when Satan can get his foot in the door called, the falling away, using men that are deceived into believing we do need a man to teach us. That is Satan who has no form as the antichrist as to his motive of operation.
The believers are considered the temple of God. For if any man has not the Spirit of Christ than neither do they belong to Him. It possible to belong to a church and not be born again . Just as it was in the Old testament when there was an outward expression used as a shadow pointing to the coming of Christ many Jews worshiped the shadows that pointed ahead to the suffering of Christ and the glory that did follow. .
Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
2Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
P
What makes no sense,is to pick one ministry,evangelist,and ascribe that SINGULARLY to their purpose and mission.
My response is from rev 14,not an overview of what we do.
It's like me scolding you for excluding baptism.
We all are commanded to baptize,correct?
So what do you have against the 144 k baptizing believers?
See how easy that is?
Then you tell me "that makes no sense"
Show me,according to rev 14 that they preach the gospel.
(not some assumption that they do it cause they are saved)
Yes they CAN PREACH,AND POSSIBLY DO,but you are making a necessary point,not reading what is there.
My response is from rev 14,not an overview of what we do.
It's like me scolding you for excluding baptism.
We all are commanded to baptize,correct?
So what do you have against the 144 k baptizing believers?
See how easy that is?
Then you tell me "that makes no sense"
Show me,according to rev 14 that they preach the gospel.
(not some assumption that they do it cause they are saved)
Yes they CAN PREACH,AND POSSIBLY DO,but you are making a necessary point,not reading what is there.
P
You have been told many times,we do not read time magazine,or whatever your latest straw man is,to receive what we glean from the bible.
You like that little game huh?
You ever pick up a bible and read it?
That smear job by you and others is so nasty.
But you guys bring zero. So you get personal out of frustration huh?
No matter how you and others slice it,you are demonizing those that watch and wait for The BRIDEGROOM.
You belittle us. You mock the bridegroom and the bride
You like that little game huh?
You ever pick up a bible and read it?
That smear job by you and others is so nasty.
But you guys bring zero. So you get personal out of frustration huh?
No matter how you and others slice it,you are demonizing those that watch and wait for The BRIDEGROOM.
You belittle us. You mock the bridegroom and the bride
We have been in the "last days" since the Cross. That event was a game changer, the #1 biggest event in mankind, after creation. "Last Days" doesn't refer to how many days are left but rather that salvation has come and we no longer need to look forward to the salvation event, that being the Cross.
Rev 20 tells us that Christ will reign in heaven for 1000 years with the souls of those who have died for Him. The 1,000 years represent "a long time" and as we know, we are coming up on 2,000 years which would make it 7,000 years since Creation (give or take).
Acts 2:17
‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
2 Timothy 3:1
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
Hebrews 1:2
has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds
Christ promise to every believer is that we will suffer persecution and be hated by all nations. Many of us will die for His name's sake. Tribulation is to be seen as a blessing.
Rev 20 tells us that Christ will reign in heaven for 1000 years with the souls of those who have died for Him. The 1,000 years represent "a long time" and as we know, we are coming up on 2,000 years which would make it 7,000 years since Creation (give or take).
Acts 2:17
‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
2 Timothy 3:1
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
Hebrews 1:2
has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds
Christ promise to every believer is that we will suffer persecution and be hated by all nations. Many of us will die for His name's sake. Tribulation is to be seen as a blessing.
Hi Auwatukee thanks, I appreciate the reply
2000 years passed before God moved Moses to give us His interpretation of the events.
People before the first century reformation had to be born again just as us today .The old testament saints that made up the body of Christ as His wife are the same as us on this side of the cross. They looked ahead to the suffering of Christ and the glory that followed as we look back at the demonstration of the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world .
The law that informs us; if any man has not the Spirit of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God, then neither do they belong to Him. It is in respect to the whole bride the lively stones that makes up the spiritual house of God, the church.
The same vail remains in Israel today, most are still waiting for the first coming in a hope their flesh will profit for something..
2Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
2000 years passed before God moved Moses to give us His interpretation of the events.
People before the first century reformation had to be born again just as us today .The old testament saints that made up the body of Christ as His wife are the same as us on this side of the cross. They looked ahead to the suffering of Christ and the glory that followed as we look back at the demonstration of the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world .
The law that informs us; if any man has not the Spirit of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God, then neither do they belong to Him. It is in respect to the whole bride the lively stones that makes up the spiritual house of God, the church.
The same vail remains in Israel today, most are still waiting for the first coming in a hope their flesh will profit for something..
2Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
garee, this wrath that Paul mentions in Romans is not the wrath that is coming related to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. That wrath that he is talking about is a result of worshiping created things instead of the creator, where he gives them over to their detestable desires, men with men and woman with women, which has already been happening. The wrath that is coming however via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, is that coming wrath which will decimate the population of the earth and dismantle all human government.
The above does not mean that they were living in the last days, but that the Lord's return was imminent. My proof of this is, did Paul see the day of Christ, which is also called the day of the Lord, where God's wrath is poured out? No! In fact, the day of the Lord has yet to happen, but is quickly approaching.
E
I did not say they were evangelist either..
Every one of us is to spread the word.
however. IF the church is raptured IF there is no one left alive who is saved. Then it would be prudent for God to give someone the word so they can start to teach others would it not?
2 witnesses Martyres and 144000, I believe three means in which God will respread the word.
Even if you do not believe in pre-trib, the bible is clear. the church will have a great falling away before the man of sin is revealed. Which means the "True" church, is prety much dead, the few believers we do have on earth have no power..
Did I say they would not baptise believers.. Thats like saying because I did not say "this", that I must believe "this" is not true.. that is a mighty large assumption.
How easy it is to assume things, Yeah I know how easy it is..
Show me where they do not preach the gospel. Show me where they ignore God first command to the church, to go and make disciples of all nations..
Maybe you have failed to do that, Or your church has (I know many have)
But show me where these 144000 sealed men of God fail to do what God commanded every one of us to do.
Every one of us is to spread the word.
however. IF the church is raptured IF there is no one left alive who is saved. Then it would be prudent for God to give someone the word so they can start to teach others would it not?
2 witnesses Martyres and 144000, I believe three means in which God will respread the word.
Even if you do not believe in pre-trib, the bible is clear. the church will have a great falling away before the man of sin is revealed. Which means the "True" church, is prety much dead, the few believers we do have on earth have no power..
Did I say they would not baptise believers.. Thats like saying because I did not say "this", that I must believe "this" is not true.. that is a mighty large assumption.
How easy it is to assume things, Yeah I know how easy it is..
Show me where they do not preach the gospel. Show me where they ignore God first command to the church, to go and make disciples of all nations..
Maybe you have failed to do that, Or your church has (I know many have)
But show me where these 144000 sealed men of God fail to do what God commanded every one of us to do.
P
I have seen many watchtower articles with your same views.
Therefore every article of your entire bible learning,you got it all from Charles Russell.
You are obviously taught by watchtower.
(kinda stings don't it).
Reaks of slander,and plain meanness.
Gets my opponent backpedaling,and in damage control.
A cheap shot,with an intended effect.
Now you can come back,and defend your true position,but hey,maybe truth is not my goal huh?
Because once you set me straight,if I continue to show parallels,you are so far off topic,my little game is successful huh?
Therefore every article of your entire bible learning,you got it all from Charles Russell.
You are obviously taught by watchtower.
(kinda stings don't it).
Reaks of slander,and plain meanness.
Gets my opponent backpedaling,and in damage control.
A cheap shot,with an intended effect.
Now you can come back,and defend your true position,but hey,maybe truth is not my goal huh?
Because once you set me straight,if I continue to show parallels,you are so far off topic,my little game is successful huh?
P
You left off prayer.
Therefore we will assume you are saying they never pray.
I already told you, this issue is rev 14.
I am referring to rev 14.
Your deal is a rabbit trail. You need certain things for some point you are making,and are broadbrushing preaching into rev 14.
I can play along. They preached,baptized and spoke in tongues. Now show me where they didn't.
Again,see how off topic and easy that is ?
Jesus got into a boat.
Show me that.
Is it in rev 14 ?
Then what is the point?
You got something against boats too?
Your turn
Therefore we will assume you are saying they never pray.
I already told you, this issue is rev 14.
I am referring to rev 14.
Your deal is a rabbit trail. You need certain things for some point you are making,and are broadbrushing preaching into rev 14.
I can play along. They preached,baptized and spoke in tongues. Now show me where they didn't.
Again,see how off topic and easy that is ?
Jesus got into a boat.
Show me that.
Is it in rev 14 ?
Then what is the point?
You got something against boats too?
Your turn
Here is other story from the VOM conference, this time from an Armenian Christian whose family fled to Iran in the early 1900s to escape the Turks:
In Islam, honor killings are a big part of Sharia Law. A majority of Muslims believe it to be a capital crime to convert to any other religion, especially Christianity. A Muslim may convert to becoming an Atheist without facing the death penalty, but not to Christianity. I had never heard that before. Satan doesn't care what your faith is, as long as it isn't in Christ.
Until the Revolution in 1979, Christians in Iran for the most part were able to practice their faith without persecution. When the Ayatollah came to power, that changed. Suddenly he started hearing of other Christians been beaten from other churches. They praised Jesus for the beatings. He felt sad not yet having experienced any tribulation to that point. He wanted to feel the same honor that Muslims felt for their faith. Honor is big in that culture, in fact, it is everything.
One day a pastor, Mehdi Dibaj, was arrested and thrown in jail sentenced to death. His dad, also a pastor, was given a copy of the death decree. The decree stated that his friend was to die because of Apostasy and not the official word of the government of being a US spy. His dad went on an international campaign even testifying before the US Congress and getting representatives of many Christian nations to write the regime in Iran demanding the release of Pastor Dibaj.
Two days before the execution was to take place, the government of Iran relented and freed the pastor. The son, Gilbert Hovsepian, now 17 would finally get his chance to experience tribulation. His dad, Haik Hovsepian would leave home and never return. Eleven days later Haik was found having been stabbed 26 times. Two months after that Pastor Dibaj would also be killed.
For those in our church body living in the middle east, tribulation has come and it cannot ever get any worse than it is right now! It all depends on one's prospective. We have it so easy in the US compared to our brothers and sisters. They are not suffering tribulation because they are bad Christians and God is punishing them, quite the opposite. They are being rewarded with Tribulation!!! What did Paul say to the Romans and Corinthians?
Romans 5:3
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance
Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer.
2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.
We are not to run from Tribulation, as our Pre-trib friends teach, rather we are to run to tribulation and be joyful in it. To be a "Tribulation Saint" is a tremendous honor yet some on here wish to label them as unworthy to be part of the Bride. This man knew he would die for his faith and it happened.
In Islam, honor killings are a big part of Sharia Law. A majority of Muslims believe it to be a capital crime to convert to any other religion, especially Christianity. A Muslim may convert to becoming an Atheist without facing the death penalty, but not to Christianity. I had never heard that before. Satan doesn't care what your faith is, as long as it isn't in Christ.
Until the Revolution in 1979, Christians in Iran for the most part were able to practice their faith without persecution. When the Ayatollah came to power, that changed. Suddenly he started hearing of other Christians been beaten from other churches. They praised Jesus for the beatings. He felt sad not yet having experienced any tribulation to that point. He wanted to feel the same honor that Muslims felt for their faith. Honor is big in that culture, in fact, it is everything.
One day a pastor, Mehdi Dibaj, was arrested and thrown in jail sentenced to death. His dad, also a pastor, was given a copy of the death decree. The decree stated that his friend was to die because of Apostasy and not the official word of the government of being a US spy. His dad went on an international campaign even testifying before the US Congress and getting representatives of many Christian nations to write the regime in Iran demanding the release of Pastor Dibaj.
Two days before the execution was to take place, the government of Iran relented and freed the pastor. The son, Gilbert Hovsepian, now 17 would finally get his chance to experience tribulation. His dad, Haik Hovsepian would leave home and never return. Eleven days later Haik was found having been stabbed 26 times. Two months after that Pastor Dibaj would also be killed.
For those in our church body living in the middle east, tribulation has come and it cannot ever get any worse than it is right now! It all depends on one's prospective. We have it so easy in the US compared to our brothers and sisters. They are not suffering tribulation because they are bad Christians and God is punishing them, quite the opposite. They are being rewarded with Tribulation!!! What did Paul say to the Romans and Corinthians?
Romans 5:3
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance
Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer.
2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.
We are not to run from Tribulation, as our Pre-trib friends teach, rather we are to run to tribulation and be joyful in it. To be a "Tribulation Saint" is a tremendous honor yet some on here wish to label them as unworthy to be part of the Bride. This man knew he would die for his faith and it happened.
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E
Well we know one thing, You have no desire to discuss anything.
So I will move on to someone who really wants to discuss things, and not want to make assumptions (which none of them are true by the way) about what a person is saying.
There has been enough of that in CC lately. and I am sick of it..
So good day.
E
Here is other story from the VOM conference, this time from an Armenian Christian whose family fled to Iran in the early 1900s to escape the Turks:
In Islam, honor killings are a big part of Sharia Law. A majority of Muslims believe it to be a capital crime to convert to any other religion, especially Christianity. A Muslim may convert to becoming an Atheist without facing the death penalty, but not to Christianity. I had never heard that before. Satan doesn't care what your faith is, as long as it isn't in Christ.
Until the Revolution in 1979, Christians in Iran for the most part were able to practice their faith without persecution. When the Ayatollah came to power, that changed. Suddenly he started hearing of other Christians been beaten from other churches. They praised Jesus for the beatings. He felt sad not yet having experienced any tribulation to that point. He wanted to feel the same honor that Muslims felt for their faith. Honor is big in that culture, in fact, it is everything.
One day a pastor, Mehdi Dibaj, was arrested and thrown in jail sentenced to death. His dad, also a pastor, was given a copy of the death decree. The decree stated that his friend was to die because of Apostasy and not the official word of the government of being a US spy. His dad went on an international campaign even testifying before the US Congress and getting representatives of many Christian nations to write the regime in Iran demanding the release of Pastor Dibaj.
Two days before the execution was to take place, the government of Iran relented and freed the pastor. The son, Gilbert Hovsepian, now 17 would finally get his chance to experience tribulation. His dad, Haik Hovsepian would leave home and never return. Eleven days later Haik was found having been stabbed 26 times. Two months after that Pastor Dibaj would also be killed.
For those in our church body living in the middle east, tribulation has come and it cannot ever get any worse than it is right now! It all depends on one's prospective. We have it so easy in the US compared to our brothers and sisters. They are not suffering tribulation because they are bad Christians and God is punishing them, quite the opposite. They are being rewarded with Tribulation!!! What did Paul say to the Romans and Corinthians?
Romans 5:3
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance
Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer.
2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.
We are not to run from Tribulation, as our Pre-trib friends teach, rather we are to run to tribulation and be joyful in it. To be a "Tribulation Saint" is a tremendous honor yet some on here wish to label them as unworthy to be part of the Bride. This man knew he would die for his faith and it happened.
In Islam, honor killings are a big part of Sharia Law. A majority of Muslims believe it to be a capital crime to convert to any other religion, especially Christianity. A Muslim may convert to becoming an Atheist without facing the death penalty, but not to Christianity. I had never heard that before. Satan doesn't care what your faith is, as long as it isn't in Christ.
Until the Revolution in 1979, Christians in Iran for the most part were able to practice their faith without persecution. When the Ayatollah came to power, that changed. Suddenly he started hearing of other Christians been beaten from other churches. They praised Jesus for the beatings. He felt sad not yet having experienced any tribulation to that point. He wanted to feel the same honor that Muslims felt for their faith. Honor is big in that culture, in fact, it is everything.
One day a pastor, Mehdi Dibaj, was arrested and thrown in jail sentenced to death. His dad, also a pastor, was given a copy of the death decree. The decree stated that his friend was to die because of Apostasy and not the official word of the government of being a US spy. His dad went on an international campaign even testifying before the US Congress and getting representatives of many Christian nations to write the regime in Iran demanding the release of Pastor Dibaj.
Two days before the execution was to take place, the government of Iran relented and freed the pastor. The son, Gilbert Hovsepian, now 17 would finally get his chance to experience tribulation. His dad, Haik Hovsepian would leave home and never return. Eleven days later Haik was found having been stabbed 26 times. Two months after that Pastor Dibaj would also be killed.
For those in our church body living in the middle east, tribulation has come and it cannot ever get any worse than it is right now! It all depends on one's prospective. We have it so easy in the US compared to our brothers and sisters. They are not suffering tribulation because they are bad Christians and God is punishing them, quite the opposite. They are being rewarded with Tribulation!!! What did Paul say to the Romans and Corinthians?
Romans 5:3
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance
Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer.
2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.
We are not to run from Tribulation, as our Pre-trib friends teach, rather we are to run to tribulation and be joyful in it. To be a "Tribulation Saint" is a tremendous honor yet some on here wish to label them as unworthy to be part of the Bride. This man knew he would die for his faith and it happened.
While they are under great tribulation and distress, and we should pray for them all. That is not anything knew, in fact has been going on since before Christ..
So not sure what your point is.. and to say that tribulation, is the grreat tribulation, would be to push it a little but do you not think?