My problem hasn't been in what I choose to do or really want to do. My problem has been more that...what I want to do or choose to do I found I wasn't able to. So I saw all of the awful things in me and couldn't stop them. And the harder I tried, the worse I seemed to become. And it didn't help me to say I had died to the law that says don't murder when I was still murdering and resenting and fuming and planning revenge.
When did the Law expire?
- Thread starter ZEEK
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My problem hasn't been in what I choose to do or really want to do. My problem has been more that...what I want to do or choose to do I found I wasn't able to. So I saw all of the awful things in me and couldn't stop them. And the harder I tried, the worse I seemed to become. And it didn't help me to say I had died to the law that says don't murder when I was still murdering and resenting and fuming and planning revenge.
Then the Law, clearly
but
24 [FONT="]And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.[/FONT]
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FreeNChrist
Guest
So how have I been released from the law that says don't murder if I still murder? Do you mean I've been released from the penalty when I break it?
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FreeNChrist
Guest
There is a story told from Civil War days before America’s slaves were freed, about a northerner who went to a slave auction and purchased a young slave girl. As they walked away from the auction, the man turned to the girl and told her, “You’re free.”
With amazement she responded, “You mean, I’m free to do whatever I want?”
“Yes,” he said.
“And to say whatever I want to say?”
“Yes, anything.”
“And to be whatever I want to be?”
“Yep.”
“And even go wherever I want to go?”
“Yes,” he answered with a smile. “You’re free to go wherever you’d like.”
She looked at him intently and replied, “Then I will go with you.”
And that is the response that God desires from us. It is a response that even He cannot force out of us. God loves us but He cannot force us to love others or to love Him back. That’s what its like under grace, you’re free, now, what will you do with your freedom??
With amazement she responded, “You mean, I’m free to do whatever I want?”
“Yes,” he said.
“And to say whatever I want to say?”
“Yes, anything.”
“And to be whatever I want to be?”
“Yep.”
“And even go wherever I want to go?”
“Yes,” he answered with a smile. “You’re free to go wherever you’d like.”
She looked at him intently and replied, “Then I will go with you.”
And that is the response that God desires from us. It is a response that even He cannot force out of us. God loves us but He cannot force us to love others or to love Him back. That’s what its like under grace, you’re free, now, what will you do with your freedom??
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish it,which means we live up to the law.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The law is spiritual,and holy,and the commandment holy,and just,and good,and any law that is spiritual has to always be obeyed,whether Old Testament,or New Testament.The ten commandments are spiritual laws to love God,and love people,that are the two greatest commandments.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
To disobey the spiritual laws,moral laws,laws of love,would put a person in a position that cannot inherit salvation,for love is the fulfilling of the law.Everybody must fulfill the law of love.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Paul says without love we are nothing,so to not fulfill the obligations of love,would mean you could not inherit a kingdom that is based on love.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
But love is not arrogant,does not name call,is not selfish,does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,which means does not sin.
Paul said we establish the law,and if we do not measure up to the law of love,we cannot inherit eternal life.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
We have to allow the Spirit to lead us,then we can fulfill the law of love,and establish the law.If you sin then you are allowing the flesh to lead you,and are being carnally minded,until you do not want that sin anymore.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
If we are led of the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,which means will not engage in sin,will not sin when being tempted.
Those that are led of the Spirit are not under the law,because a Spirit led life will not engage in sin,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution for they are not breaking the law,but abstaining from sin,which if you engage in sin you are not led of the Spirit,but the flesh,and back under the law,until that sin is sincerely given up,and God knows the heart.
The spiritual laws,love God,love people,never pass away,and the moral laws that are against fleshy wickedness never pass away,but are always in effect.
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Old Testament,New Testament,it is the responsibility of the believer to make the choice to do the right thing,there is no excuse that Jesus did it all despite us not acting right,for under that condition the righteousness of Christ cannot apply to us,and there is no excuse the law does not apply to the saints,for if the world is going to be in trouble for their sins,how much more will the people that claim Christ be in trouble,if they did not abstain from sin,when they should know better,the same as a Colonel,and a Private,get busted for the same offense,the Colonel is going to be hit a lot harder than the Private,for he should know better.
The world is going to be in trouble for their sins,but the saints can get away with it,when the Bible says Jesus' blood does not take away sins that the people that claim Christ hold unto,for if you do not give up sin altogether,you are then under the law with them,and will be judged along with them.For everybody is going to be held for sins they hold unto,whether they claim Christ or not,not this relaxed attitude that it does not apply to the saints.
Jesus' blood takes away our sins,and His righteousness applies to us,if we are led of the Spirit,and abstain from sin,for if not we are under the law,and will be judged with the world.
The physical ordinances we do not have to obey,for they have no bearing on spiritual salvation,but the law of love always applies,in which love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin.
If the law expired, wouldn't it mean that "sin" (which is the breaking of said law) no longer exists? If the law expired wouldn't it mean no one can possibly sin anymore no matter what they do?
Also, how can someone possibly place themselves back "under the law" - in an attempt to justify themselves - if it no longer exists?
..See what I'm getting at? Doesn't the whole thing collapses on itself if the law expired?
Also, how can someone possibly place themselves back "under the law" - in an attempt to justify themselves - if it no longer exists?
..See what I'm getting at? Doesn't the whole thing collapses on itself if the law expired?
Here you go then Yahshua:
13 [FONT="]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[/FONT]
5 [FONT="]Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Mortify means put to death[/FONT]
13 [FONT="]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[/FONT]
5 [FONT="]Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Mortify means put to death[/FONT]
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Absolutely not. As per FreeNChrist
13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Sin and Transgression are not to be confused:
[FONT="]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no [/FONT]transgression
You must realize that Law was given to one specific nation and for a specific period of time.
The rest of the world had and has conscience.
Yes. What is being said makes no practical sense to me at all. I've been freed from the law that says don't murder? HOW have I been freed from it if I still murder and resent and fume at how someone treats me? I've been freed in the sense that I won't face the penalty? Or I've been freed in the sense that there is no longer any law for me that I must not murder? I'm trying to understand.
But who (or what) was to be mortified, per your passage? The law or your members? The law or your deeds of the body?
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FreeNChrist
Guest
You're making my point Zeek, without existence of the law, sin doesn't exist. But we know we still sin. Everyone here says it. If God's law expired then sin expired right?
1 John3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
But didn't God say that the specific nation was to be his priests to the world? For what purpose were they to be his priests?
Well...outwardly, we are pretty good at not doing it. It's inwardly, in spirit, where my problem was. I found it easy to not shoot or stab anyone. I found it impossible to never be angry at or resent anyone.
I asked it as a question.
Does the Husband represent the Law or our 'Flesh' = sinful nature