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I was just curious what LXX says about it:
" In the twelfth year of Joram son of Achaab king of Israel, Ochozias son of Joram began to reign.
Twenty and two years old was Ochozias when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and the name of his mother was Gotholia, daughter of Ambri king of Israel."
(4 Kings 8:26)
"So Ochozias son of Joram king of Juda reigned. Ochozias began to reign when he was twenty years old, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother’s name was Gotholia, the daughter of Ambri."
(2 Chronicles 22:1)
It is obviously the same person. And yes, its another example of the real error in KJV. A good one
" In the twelfth year of Joram son of Achaab king of Israel, Ochozias son of Joram began to reign.
Twenty and two years old was Ochozias when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and the name of his mother was Gotholia, daughter of Ambri king of Israel."
(4 Kings 8:26)
"So Ochozias son of Joram king of Juda reigned. Ochozias began to reign when he was twenty years old, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother’s name was Gotholia, the daughter of Ambri."
(2 Chronicles 22:1)
It is obviously the same person. And yes, its another example of the real error in KJV. A good one
I was just curious what LXX says about it:
" In the twelfth year of Joram son of Achaab king of Israel, Ochozias son of Joram began to reign.
Twenty and two years old was Ochozias when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and the name of his mother was Gotholia, daughter of Ambri king of Israel."
(4 Kings 8:26)
"So Ochozias son of Joram king of Juda reigned. Ochozias began to reign when he was twenty years old, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother’s name was Gotholia, the daughter of Ambri."
(2 Chronicles 22:1)
It is obviously the same person. And yes, its another example of the real error in KJV. A good one
" In the twelfth year of Joram son of Achaab king of Israel, Ochozias son of Joram began to reign.
Twenty and two years old was Ochozias when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and the name of his mother was Gotholia, daughter of Ambri king of Israel."
(4 Kings 8:26)
"So Ochozias son of Joram king of Juda reigned. Ochozias began to reign when he was twenty years old, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother’s name was Gotholia, the daughter of Ambri."
(2 Chronicles 22:1)
It is obviously the same person. And yes, its another example of the real error in KJV. A good one
2 Kings 8:28 KJV
And he went with Joram the son of Ahab to the war against Hazael king of Syria in Ramoth-gilead; and the Syrians wounded Joram.
1 Kings 22:50 KJV
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.
John, perhaps you should accept that others don't see this issue the same way you do, and leave it at that. Your logic here is faulty in that you use a false dichotomy (again!). You equate the change of language with the change of doctrine, which it isn't. I agree with your last sentence, but that's it.
God's holy word is different; it's God-breathed and is true at a level unattainable by any man-made book. That truth is present in any valid translation, and there are many, even in English. Just because you don't believe that doesn't make it false, and just because you might claim to "know" that the KJV is "perfect" doesn't make it the truth.
God's holy word is different; it's God-breathed and is true at a level unattainable by any man-made book. That truth is present in any valid translation, and there are many, even in English. Just because you don't believe that doesn't make it false, and just because you might claim to "know" that the KJV is "perfect" doesn't make it the truth.
And I believe the same God who gave us His word can preserve His word even in English. I would also agree that most versions have some truth in them, but I want the whole counsel of God.
If I stand before the JSOC and the Lord tells me what a fool I was for believing that He preserved His words in the English language in the KJV, then I'll be a fool.
It's not that you believe that about the KJV, it's that you belittle and condemn EVERY other version...
We are free in Christ to believe what we understand, following our conscience, led by the Spirit. It's when you start binding your own prejudices/silly beliefs on others that it becomes wrong. Why do you think we have so many denominations now?
We are free in Christ to believe what we understand, following our conscience, led by the Spirit. It's when you start binding your own prejudices/silly beliefs on others that it becomes wrong. Why do you think we have so many denominations now?
Jehoram and Joram are NOT the same people. Joram's father was Ahab, Jehorams father was Jehoshaphat. Just some friendly advise Trofimus... go read the stories in the inerrant version of your native language instead of the LXX.
2 Kings 8:28 KJV
And he went with Joram the son of Ahab to the war against Hazael king of Syria in Ramoth-gilead; and the Syrians wounded Joram.
1 Kings 22:50 KJV
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.
2 Kings 8:28 KJV
And he went with Joram the son of Ahab to the war against Hazael king of Syria in Ramoth-gilead; and the Syrians wounded Joram.
1 Kings 22:50 KJV
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.
This is so obviously the same person.... when we continue reading:
"And Ochozias son of Joram went down to see Joram the son of Achaab in Jezrael, because he was sick."
(4 Kings 8:28)
"And Ochozias son of Joram, king of Juda, went down to see Joram the son of Achaab at Jezrael because he was sick."
(2 Chronicles 22:6)
So, we have these life facts:
1. named Ochozias
2. father named Joram
3. mather named Gotholia, dauther of Ambri
4. 20 (22) years old when started his rule
5. went to see Joram at Jezrael because he was sick
If you really want to make 2Chronicles and 4 Kings (2Kings in KJV) to tell about two different persons, its very incredible. Such probability of events happening in the life of two different kings is unbelievable.
Just because KJV has error regarding his age.
what you say seems to make sense.
but, if we can know His ways of being and doing right by reading an infallible book, then we have no need to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
ST. JOHN 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes,
he will guide you into all the truth,
for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
also people who can't read that particular book have no way of knowing God's ways.
but, if we can know His ways of being and doing right by reading an infallible book, then we have no need to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
ST. JOHN 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes,
he will guide you into all the truth,
for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
also people who can't read that particular book have no way of knowing God's ways.
Isaiah 28
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Hebrews 5
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Hebrews 5
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Well this really boils down to the scholarship that those versions are based on. Contrary to popular opinion, the different versions are not an attempt to translate the words in a modern way. The NIV and others are based on a series of select manuscripts which modern scholars view as the best and earliest reference material.
What they don't tell you if that they reject the versions that were received through the ancient churches because they are of later date.
These versions are based on Texts that we don't know who wrote them, if they were used by ancient churches or are editions used by gnostic sections. These texts call into question many verses of scripture.
What they don't tell you if that they reject the versions that were received through the ancient churches because they are of later date.
These versions are based on Texts that we don't know who wrote them, if they were used by ancient churches or are editions used by gnostic sections. These texts call into question many verses of scripture.
Use what delights you now. Read it until it falls apart. Buy a totally different version later if you want. You can find different kinds at thrift shops for like 2 bucks (yay for poor people!). Everybody doesn't have a choice what version they have, but God sees them seeking.
It is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth (John 16:13).
It is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth (John 16:13).