Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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just search for harlot/Israel whoredoms etc.....so many passages they cant be
memorized (by me anyways)

Jeremiah 3
Israel's and Judah's Unfaithfulness
…7"I thought, 'After she has done all these things she will return to Me'; but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8"And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also. 9"Because of the lightness of her harlotry, she polluted the land and committed adultery with stones and trees.…
 
Aug 19, 2016
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Another repost from me. I see I have not really posted on this thread. Although I have in many others about the rapture, and all this other nonsense.


"1 Thess. 4:17 "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." NIV

άρπαγησόμεθα - harpagesometha -future active indicative from the verb άρπάζω, meaning to be caught up, snatched up in the air.*

I agree with others totally on this word. But the word in question for me is not about "being caught up," but instead, the word "meet."

άπάντησις - apantesis - fem, noun, nominative case. The word has a technical meaning in the Hellenistic world related to the visits of dignitaries to cities where the visitor would be formally met by the citizens, or a deputation of them, who went out from the city, and would then ceremonially escort him back into the city.*

Other occurrences of this word in the New Testament is Acts 28:15-16

"The brothers and sisters there had heard that we were coming, and they traveled as far as the Forum of Appius and the Three Taverns to MEET us. At the sight of these people Paul thanked God and was encouraged. 16 When we got to Rome, Paul was allowed to live by himself, with a soldier to guard him."

Therefore, we will be caught up in the air to return with Jesus back to a renewed and restored earth. There is no mention in this or any other passage that believers will be snatched away, rather going to meet Jesus and returning with him, as the believers in Rome went out to meet Paul and went back with him to the city.

The final reference which uses this word meet is in Matt. 25:6

"At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to MEET him!" The virgins went out to meet the bridegroom then went back with him."

This word in other Greek sources always refers to the people going out to meet a returning conqueror. The accompany him back to the city. They are not taken elsewhere.

Show me any where in Greek where it says they are taken somewhere, rather than returned. In fact, rapture as you have correctly stated is from the Latin Vulgate and is a corruption of the original Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek, not Latin. (Vulgate was translated in approx. 382 AD)

As for the tribulation, we are always in the tribulation. Take places like Communist China and North Korea and India and Saudi Arabia and Eritrea. Those believers are being killed for their faith, just as believers have often died for their faith.

Rev. 7:14 "I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

θλίφις - thliphis - trouble that inflicts distress, oppression, affliction, tribulation. This is the only reference to the tribulation in the Bible. Any Bible scholar knows you do NOT make a doctrine nor write a book based on one scripture. But fanciful interpretation of Rev. has gotten more than Harold Camping in trouble for this very poor reading of the Greek.# Poor hermeneutics does not a doctrine make!

Believe what you want. But if you want the truth, look at the original Bible, not the writings of men. And put the words into context of who Paul and Luke and John were writing to - the people of their own time, not the 21st century Christian."

*The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament" by Cleon L. Rogers Jr. and Cleon L. Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids Michigan, 1998.

# The Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature. 3rd Edition. Danker and Bauers, The University of Chicago Press, 2000.

The following is the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church Beginning with Mt.24:31: And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio in 2 Thes.2:3: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar02
 
Aug 19, 2016
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Scriptural proof for the pre-tribrapture of the Church:

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar92
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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hi bud.
very very cool that you are past some non existent millennial reign.

i'll bypass the Islam thing for now - Islam is NOT in the bible.
God teaches us by how He dealt with Israel - ancient apostate Israel was the harlot.

apply your no-millennium thinking to the harlot.
Israel was harlot, Ceasarist Rome was the beast.
Hey Zone,

I'm with you on the millennial thingy but the Harlot is a totally different matter. Israel engaged in harlotry, no doubt. But neither Israel nor Rome was the beast of Rev 13.

Islam by name is not in the Bible. I agree. It didn't exist until 630 AD. But Islam is referenced all over the place such as in Isa 54, Gal 4, Dan 9:27, Rev 6, 11, 13, 17 -20 to name a few places.

The roots of Islam extend all the way back to Ishmael and Esau. They are the desolate with more children than the barren Woman (Israel) who has a husband.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
just search for harlot/Israel whoredoms etc.....so many passages they cant be
memorized (by me anyways)

Jeremiah 3
Israel's and Judah's Unfaithfulness
…7"I thought, 'After she has done all these things she will return to Me'; but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8"And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also. 9"Because of the lightness of her harlotry, she polluted the land and committed adultery with stones and trees.…
Yes, Israel played the harlot. She started playing the harlot in Egypt as evidenced by the golden calf they made shortly after leaving Egypt. Israel didn't just decide on a whim to make an idol, it was a learned behavior. I was looking over the Egypt section at the Louvre last year and found a calf idol there and also calf heads in the architecture.

Israel never got this idol worship thing on their own, it always started with the influence of others around them. In Revelation we see the "Mother of all Harlots" mentioned meaning the biggest and/or oldest false religion. Nothing about Judaism can be said to be biggest or oldest with a maximum of just 16 million Jews on the planet.

 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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No, that is not what I said nor inferred. #1 is not a general resurrection.. #2 is NOT a resurrection, or it would contradict Rev.20:4, seven years later, Jesus told John, is the FIRST general resurrection. The dead in Christ who will RISE first, in 1 Thess.4:16, already have. Each in his own turn, as he died physically. When Jesus RAISED him up to heaven according to 2 Cor.5:6-8. Confirming Ecc.12:7 and 1 Thess.4:14, when they will all return with Christ from heaven, when He returns, in verse 16.

Hope this helps.

Quasar92
Q92, What is your definition of the term you used, "general resurrection?"
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
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Hey Zone,

I'm with you on the millennial thingy but the Harlot is a totally different matter. Israel engaged in harlotry, no doubt. But neither Israel nor Rome was the beast of Rev 13.

Islam by name is not in the Bible. I agree. It didn't exist until 630 AD. But Islam is referenced all over the place such as in Isa 54, Gal 4, Dan 9:27, Rev 6, 11, 13, 17 -20 to name a few places.

The roots of Islam extend all the way back to Ishmael and Esau. They are the desolate with more children than the barren Woman (Israel) who has a husband.
Brother PlainWord,

The beast is Rome.

Islam may be the clay with the iron legs,

But the iron legs are Rome, the 4th beast of Dan. 7.

-----
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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1

The following is the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church Beginning with Mt.24:31: And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out......
I will take on your argument IF....you post ONLY the scriptures you believe prove a pretrib.
you can NOT add commentary at all as you did.

if not that's fine, because not ONE single passage you posted proves pretrib.

......

the above passage Mt 24 does not prove a pretrib rapture. it speaks only to a second coming and gathering.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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2

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
this passage does not prove a pretrib.
it speaks only to being counted worthy to escape the persecutions coming. MANY DID.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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3

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].
this doesn't prove a pretrib.
this speaks to eternal life with Christ in Our Father's House. that's all.
in context He is comforting them about His leaving for the throne.
 

zone

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Jun 13, 2010
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4
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
this says nothing about a pretrib.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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5

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.
nothing here says ANYTHING about a pretrib
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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6

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.
you can not add text in like it's scripture.
Jesus NEVER taught a pretrib.
He taught the OPPOSITE:


Matthew 13

The Parable of the Weeds

24He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsc among the wheat and went away. 26So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27And the servantsd of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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7

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17.
again, don't slip your commentary into the text.
someone might think it's actually in there and it is certainly not.

1 thess speaks to the second coming, more specifically, the bodily resurrection of all, BEGINNING with those who have previously died.
all others happen virtually at the same time. it says nothing about two second comings - or a pretrib.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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8

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come."
wow. okay. Daniel's 70th week happened right after the 69th way back in Christ's Day __> 70AD
(to debunk or not to debunk, that is the question)

2 thess 2 says nothing whatsoever about a pretrib. paul is ONLY saying.....don't assume the second coming has happened because it hadn't.
that's all.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.
all of the above is the heresy known as dispensationalism.
and yes, it is heresy.


The Heresy Of Dispensationalism


Dispensationalism - A Return to Biblical Theology

or

Pseudo Christian Cult

“What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation… If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation.”

- By John H. Gerstner Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism

What is Dispensationalism?

Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism originating among the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1830’s. The father of dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby, educated as a lawyer and ordained Anglican priest, was one of the chief founders of the Plymouth Brethren movement, which arose in reaction against the perceived empty formalism of the Church of England. To the Brethren the true “invisible” church was to come out of the apostate “visible” Church, rejecting such forms as priesthood and sacraments.Dispensational theology centers upon the concept of God’s dealings with mankind being divided into (usually) seven distinct economies or “dispensations”, in which man is tested as to his obedience to the will of God as revealed under each dispensation.

Dispensationalists see God as pursuing two distinct purposes throughout history, one related to an earthly goal and an earthly people (the Jews), the other to heavenly goals and a heavenly people (the church).Dispensationalists believe that in the Old Testament God promised the Jewish people an earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah ben David, and that when Christ came He offered this prophesied kingdom to the Jews. When the Jews of the time rejected Christ and the earthly kingdom, the promise was postponed, and the “mystery form” of the kingdom – the church – was established.

The church, according to dispensational doctrine, was unforeseen in the Old Testament and constitutes a “parenthesis” in God’s plan for Israel. In the future, the distinction between Jew and Gentile will be reestablished and will continue throughout all eternity. The “parenthesis”, or church age, will end at the rapture when Christ comes invisibly to take all believers (excepting OT saints) to heaven to celebrate the “marriage feast of the Lamb” with Christ for a period of seven years.God’s program for the Jews then resumes with the tribulation, Antichrist, bowls of wrath, 144,000 Jews preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and Armageddon.

Then, the Second (third, if you count the preTrib rapture) Coming, the instantaneous conversion of the entire nation of Israel, the resurrection of the Tribulation and Old Testament saints, and the “sheep and goats” judgment. The “goats” will be cast into hell, the “sheep” and the believing Jews will enter the millennium in natural human bodies, marrying, reproducing, and dying. The “mystery church” and the resurrected Tribulation and Old Testament saints will live in the heavenly Jerusalem suspended above the earthly city. This millennium will be a time of great peace and prosperity, with Christ ruling on David’s throne. After 1,000 yrs. Satan will be released from the chain with which he had been bound at the beginning of the millennium and many of the children born to the “sheep” and the Israelites will follow him in revolt against Christ.

The King will again destroy His enemies, followed by another resurrection of the righteous, another resurrection of the unrighteous, a final judgment, and at last the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Although premillennial thought has been recorded in the early church, dispensational theology and its pursuant eschatology are new, as even the father of the system admitted -“I think we ought to have something more of direct testimony as to the lord’s coming, and its bearing also on the state of the church: ordinarily, it would not be well to have it so clear, as it frightens people. We must pursue it steadily; it works like leaven, and its fruit is by no means seen yet; I do not mean leaven as ill, but the thoughts are new, and people’s minds work on them, and all the old habits are against their feelings – all the gain of situation, and every worldly motive; we must not be surprised at its effect being slow on the mass, the ordinary instruments of acting upon others having been trained in most opposite habits.” – LETTERS OF J.N.D., vol.1 pg.25-26

etc etc > https://testallthings.com/2007/03/20/the-heresy-of-dispensationalism
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
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all of the above is the heresy known as dispensationalism.
and yes, it is heresy.


The Heresy Of Dispensationalism


Dispensationalism - A Return to Biblical Theology

or

Pseudo Christian Cult

“What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation… If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation.”

- By John H. Gerstner Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism

What is Dispensationalism?

Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism originating among the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1830’s. The father of dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby, educated as a lawyer and ordained Anglican priest, was one of the chief founders of the Plymouth Brethren movement, which arose in reaction against the perceived empty formalism of the Church of England. To the Brethren the true “invisible” church was to come out of the apostate “visible” Church, rejecting such forms as priesthood and sacraments.Dispensational theology centers upon the concept of God’s dealings with mankind being divided into (usually) seven distinct economies or “dispensations”, in which man is tested as to his obedience to the will of God as revealed under each dispensation.

Dispensationalists see God as pursuing two distinct purposes throughout history, one related to an earthly goal and an earthly people (the Jews), the other to heavenly goals and a heavenly people (the church).Dispensationalists believe that in the Old Testament God promised the Jewish people an earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah ben David, and that when Christ came He offered this prophesied kingdom to the Jews. When the Jews of the time rejected Christ and the earthly kingdom, the promise was postponed, and the “mystery form” of the kingdom – the church – was established.

The church, according to dispensational doctrine, was unforeseen in the Old Testament and constitutes a “parenthesis” in God’s plan for Israel. In the future, the distinction between Jew and Gentile will be reestablished and will continue throughout all eternity. The “parenthesis”, or church age, will end at the rapture when Christ comes invisibly to take all believers (excepting OT saints) to heaven to celebrate the “marriage feast of the Lamb” with Christ for a period of seven years.God’s program for the Jews then resumes with the tribulation, Antichrist, bowls of wrath, 144,000 Jews preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and Armageddon.

Then, the Second (third, if you count the preTrib rapture) Coming, the instantaneous conversion of the entire nation of Israel, the resurrection of the Tribulation and Old Testament saints, and the “sheep and goats” judgment. The “goats” will be cast into hell, the “sheep” and the believing Jews will enter the millennium in natural human bodies, marrying, reproducing, and dying. The “mystery church” and the resurrected Tribulation and Old Testament saints will live in the heavenly Jerusalem suspended above the earthly city. This millennium will be a time of great peace and prosperity, with Christ ruling on David’s throne. After 1,000 yrs. Satan will be released from the chain with which he had been bound at the beginning of the millennium and many of the children born to the “sheep” and the Israelites will follow him in revolt against Christ.

The King will again destroy His enemies, followed by another resurrection of the righteous, another resurrection of the unrighteous, a final judgment, and at last the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Although premillennial thought has been recorded in the early church, dispensational theology and its pursuant eschatology are new, as even the father of the system admitted -“I think we ought to have something more of direct testimony as to the lord’s coming, and its bearing also on the state of the church: ordinarily, it would not be well to have it so clear, as it frightens people. We must pursue it steadily; it works like leaven, and its fruit is by no means seen yet; I do not mean leaven as ill, but the thoughts are new, and people’s minds work on them, and all the old habits are against their feelings – all the gain of situation, and every worldly motive; we must not be surprised at its effect being slow on the mass, the ordinary instruments of acting upon others having been trained in most opposite habits.” – LETTERS OF J.N.D., vol.1 pg.25-26

etc etc > https://testallthings.com/2007/03/20/the-heresy-of-dispensationalism
if that's heresy the what do you believe?
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
that everything except Judgment Day and eternity has been fulfilled.
so how much of Rev is that you think has already happened? just want to make sure im hearing you right.