what has been fulfilled?

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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All what things??? Jesus seems to be saying that one generation will see everything He just mentioned. Was the gospel preached to all the world back in AD 70 or at the time of Herod? I don't think so.
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he was speaking to the disciples.
he said ALL these things will be fulfilled in that generation and they were.

Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

“A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (rendered in Chilton)

Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
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Isn’t it obvious by now that not all biblical prophecies have been fulfilled yet? Yes, many have been fulfilled, but definitely not all. I’ve been reading pages and pages of examples.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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Why would that not be literal? You ought to understand that Israel looks for a literal kingdom of God on the earth. No reason to expect that God will not fulfill His promise to Israel to have a kingdom on earth with Messiah as King.

Don't over symbolize Revelation. That is the fruit of the unbelieving heart. God will perform all that He has promised.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus had all the opportunity to be be a king on earth to the Israelites. But apparently that's not what Jesus had in mind. His kingdom is not of this world, it's a spiritual kingdom.

John 6
15 [FONT=&quot]Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.[/FONT]
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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Yeah I know. Probably go with the kingdom of God in our hearts symbolism. Preterism forces some real gymnastics on ones eschatology. Mix in a little oneness theology and you get real far afield.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
The first century Jews who believed Christ, 1st fruits of Christ, 1st Christians, were the remnant of 1st century apostate Israel and survived 70AD. Gentile Christians were added to this remnant, Christianity is a continuation of true Israel.

John 10
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.


Matthew 21:43
43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

The Kingdom of God was taken away from the physical Jewish nation and religious sects and is never promised to be given it back to them, instead it was given to the remnant- the believing Jews (preach to the Jew first, then the gentile), and gentiles where grafted in later. The remnant is the new nation, read Peter 2:9, Peter uses the same language in identify the Christian believers as Moses did for the physical Israeli nation in Exodus 19:6.

1 Peter 2:9
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once werenot a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

It is your system of eschatology that puts a slant on interpretation. For example, adding a gap between the 69th week and 70th of Daniels 70 week prophecy. Daniel lays out 6 specific things what will happen and that whole 70 weeks are determined for their fulfillment. The apostle Paul tells us that all these 6 things are fulfilled, therefore, there is no gap, therefore, your system falls apart.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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he was speaking to the disciples.
he said ALL these things will be fulfilled in that generation and they were.

Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

“A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (rendered in Chilton)

Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
Pentecost was a crazy thing, for sure. Peter invokes Joel 2. But are you saying that Christ returned 10 days after He left? If so, why is Paul still speaking of it as a future event in 2 Thes 1-2?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Pentecost was a crazy thing, for sure. Peter invokes Joel 2. But are you saying that Christ returned 10 days after He left? If so, why is Paul still speaking of it as a future event in 2 Thes 1-2?
huh?
10 days?
no clue what you're saying
 
Jun 11, 2016
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Are you saying that the Herodian dynasty, from 40BC to 100AD approx, is in view at the end of Daniel 11 zone?

Makes a lot of sense to me
 
Jun 11, 2016
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Hi Plainword
1) Revelation employs massive amounts of figurative language, most of which is not literal. John uses OT symbols found in the OT prophets writings especially Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel. He did this to protect himself and the churches he wrote to should the Romans find his writings. Anyone who doesn't understand this and wants to apply literal interpretations to Revelation would be better off closing the book and forgetting that it exists because you will get it 100% wrong.
Revelation was not conceived by John though.

It is a vision that God gave to Jesus.
 
Jun 11, 2016
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@Zone

Genesis 3:16
[FONT=&quot]and thy desire shall be to thy husband

A woman's desire is to her husband, (and the church's desire is to Christ)


[/FONT]
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
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Good day Zone,

he was speaking to the disciples. He said ALL these things will be fulfilled in that generation and they were.
Here is the scripture that you are referring to:

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

This scripture, along with one other, is used by those who have adopted the teaching that everything was accomplished at the destruction of the temple. They attempt to make "this generation" of the verse, the generation that Jesus was speaking from, which is not in keeping with the context of the scripture and is grammatically incorrect.

"this generation" in the scripture above, grammatically speaking, would have to refer back to the generation where those signs take place and is not in reference to Jesus' generation. By making "this generation" the one that Jesus was living in, it takes away the need for the signs and forces His return to take place in the same generation that he was speaking from.

In the Olivet Discourse, the disciples ask Jesus "when will all this happen and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Regarding the destruction of the temple, Jesus had already told them that "not one stone would be left upon another that would not be thrown down." The rest of the information was focused on the signs leading up to His return, which would end the age.

In Matt.24:32-34, the Lord tells them that, when they see the trees blossoming they can know that summer is near and that in the same way, when they see all of those signs taking place they can know that the end is near. Then the Lord says, "this generation" will certainly not pass away until all of these things have happened." The "this generation" would then have to be referring to the one where all of those signs take place and not to the generation that Jesus' was living in.

All that said, where Matt.24 is a summarization of God's wrath leading up to the Lord's return, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments listed in the book of Revelation, is a detailed account of God's wrath. According to scripture, Jesus doesn't return until after the 7th bowl has been poured out. For at the pouring out of the 6th bowl Jesus interjects the following:

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

Without a doubt, the first seal has not yet been opened, which represents the antichrist and therefore neither have any of the seals, trumpets or bowl judgments which follow. Therefore, we have no fulfillment of those plagues of wrath that must take place leading up to Christ's return.

Conclusion: "this generation" is that generation where all of those signs takes place and is not referring to the generation that Jesus was living in.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Here is the scripture that you are referring to:

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

This scripture, along with one other, is used by those who have adopted the teaching that everything was accomplished at the destruction of the temple. They attempt to make "this generation" of the verse, the generation that Jesus was speaking from, which is not in keeping with the context of the scripture and is grammatically incorrect.
you are exactly wrong.
in context, He is speaking to, and only to...the people He was speaking to - the disciples.
is this really that hard??

the narcissism of THIS (OUR) generation is staggering.

why can't dispies enjoy the wonder and beauty of PROPHECY FULFILLED!!
what proclaims the Glory of God MORE???
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Conclusion: "this generation" is that generation where all of those signs takes place and is not referring to the generation that Jesus was living in.]
deny His truth all you want.
you're only hurting yourself - AND more seriously for you - the ppl you teach falsely!
 
Jun 11, 2016
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When Jesus said he would come "like a thief in the night" he was quoting Joel and referring to the Roman forces as they overran Jerusalem, (which was in the spiritual dark)
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

The Olivet Discourse is very simple in structure. Jesus describes events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem, and then events after. His explanation is very very straightforward. Only the ridiculous expositions of the Futurists mess up his words.
 
Jun 11, 2016
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Generation means the DNA ancestry of someone.

There are 20 generations back to my ancestor, Egelbert The Hungry, who died in 1245.

It also implies/denotes a certain period of time. E.G. 40/70/80 years.

The Levitical lineage is alive and well today, as DNA tells us the Cohens are (mostly) Levites.
 
Jun 11, 2016
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the narcissism of THIS (OUR) generation is staggering.

why can't dispies enjoy the wonder and beauty of PROPHECY FULFILLED!!
what proclaims the Glory of God MORE???
Hallelujah! I'm too sexy for the Word, too sexy....lol
 
Jun 11, 2016
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I'm a model if you know what I mean, and I spread my dispie doctrine on the catwalk...
 
Jun 11, 2016
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It is absolutely true Zone. It is incredible vanity to see every prophecy as laser focussed on our generation.

And as you say, very correctly, the perfection of Prophecy Fulfilled is simply staggering.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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It is absolutely true Zone. It is incredible vanity to see every prophecy as laser focussed on our generation.

And as you say, very correctly, the perfection of Prophecy Fulfilled is simply staggering.
when I actually studied Daniel using history, it blew my mind and solidified my faith even more.
I've used Daniel to evangelize jews....success with one!:) - glory to God
 
Jun 11, 2016
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What in particular was the thing or things that made them sit up and take notice?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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What in particular was the thing or things that made them sit up and take notice?
just the precision of the prophecies in their fulfillments.
having already been taught by Talmud that the forefathers did indeed have Christ crucified (believing Him to be a false prophet), this person now realized He was crucified, and was The Messiah.
apparently he went on to evangelize his family.