Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

[stonesoffire]

I have watched the video.

Again, lack of any medical proof what actually was the problem with the child.

Mother chewing chewing gum like she would be in a shop.

Hysterical dancing of all members after the baby awoke, crazy music.

Seems to me like a scam, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KQ2NWKcD3s&feature=youtu.be

Ive received the baptism of Holy Spirit but I myself am not comfortable in this kind of meeting. But, my comfort isn't at all important when a child wakes up from a coma. If it were mine, I probably would be dancing too.

 

[wanderer6059]

So the questing is, or that come is why do some receive healing, while others don’t, the answer can be shown through that very word receive.

Strong's Concordance
lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I receive, take
Definition: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.

HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

Now I’m starting with this one word because it helps best lay the foundation of what Faith is, or how it is used. I am going to post a few examples of the biblical context for receive.

Jesus Heals at Peter's House

…16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophetIsaiah: “He took on our infirmities, and carried our diseases.” 18When Jesus saw a large crowd around Him, He gave orders to cross to the other side.…
The Ministry of the Twelve
…7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give. 9Do not carry any gold or silver or copper in your belts.…

Now I posted the verses that use this word on the subject of healing. but it is used in the same manner when receiving anything from the Father. It gives and the context of a motion from the receiver, an action associated with the anticipation of coming into and taking hold of the thing to receive.

And forgive me but the best way to describe this is with football to me… a quarterback has the ball, the play is set and the receiver has a path he has been given to run out in anticipation of receiving the ball. He runs his path and looks back, waiting to see the ball coming, and once he has it, he gives his all to take it to the end of his run.

Now to my main point, WoF is not about how others have a lack of faith or more faith, or even that faith can be measured in a way like that. But that 1.) faith must be seen or heard 2.) faith must be received and 3.) it must be realeased.
To start, to see or hear.

The Word Brings Salvation
…13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14How then can they call on the One they have not believed in? Andhow can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”…

akouó: to hear, listen
Original Word: ἀκούω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: akouó
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-oo'-o)
Short Definition: I hear, listen
Definition: I hear, listen, comprehend by hearing; pass: is heard, reported.

HELPS Word-studies
191 akoúō – properly, to hear (listen); (figuratively) to hear God's voice which prompts Him to birth faith within (cf. Ro 10:17). See 189 (akoē).
[191 (akoúō) is the root of the English term, "acoustics."]
Now this aspect shows that faith is born of the word of God being received, Faith is born on any subject of God, out of deep reflection in the word, on the subject. But that I not where faith ends.

Fait pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.h is taken by us and and it is being fully persuaded and convinced, calling the word truth.

Hebrews 11:1-3King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith is the unwavering conviction that everything in the word of God is as it is said. There is no compromise to it, that God said it, I believe it, that settles it. If He says I am save by grace, that settles that, if He says I am free in Him and a slave to righteousness, that settles it, if He says I am Healed of ALL things, that settles it.
But so the question is, why then are people with faith, not healed, why can thousands pray for one person and they die! I will be bold enough to say it is not just about having faith but releasing it!
Faith, must be released through action, through the Christian work.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

ergon: work
Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
HELPS Word-studies
2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something.2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

nekros: dead
Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Short Definition: dead, a corpse
Definition: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
HELPS Word-studies
3498 nekrós (an adjective, derived from nekys, "a corpse, a dead body") – dead; literally, "what lacks life"; dead; (figuratively) not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions ("unable, ineffective, dead, powerless," L & N, 1, 74.28); unresponsive to life-giving influences (opportunities); inoperative to the things of God.
3498 /nekrós ("corpse-like") is used as a noun in certain contexts ("the dead"), especially when accompanied by the Greek definite article. The phrase, ek nekron ("from the dead"), lacks the Greek article to give the sense "from what is of death."

To finish this point to bring it home, Faith, without action is dead. We believing being moved by emotion and feeling into saying oh that can’t be true, God doesn’t heal like that. Or no I am not worthy. I don’t have enough faith. Brothers and sister, it is not that, again to foot ball, we give up to soon, we don’t expect it. If we only knew, the QB was just fighting for a chance to throw the ball, and by the time he had it in the air, we had already given up, and stopped looking back. Its not about a lack, but giving up on a conviction to soon, and accepting, the lie that God doesn’t do those things. Stand not on the opinion of man but the word of God.

 

[Angela53510]

So the questing is, or that come is why do some receive healing, while others don’t, the answer can be shown through that very word receive.

Strong's Concordance
lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I receive, take
Definition: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.

HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

Now I’m starting with this one word because it helps best lay the foundation of what Faith is, or how it is used. I am going to post a few examples of the biblical context for receive.

Jesus Heals at Peter's House

…16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17This wasto fulfillwhatwas spokenthroughtheprophetIsaiah:“He took onourinfirmities,andcarriedourdiseases.” 18When Jesus saw a large crowd around Him, He gave orders to cross to the other side.…
The Ministry of the Twelve
…7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Healthe sick,raisethe dead,cleansethe lepers,drive outdemons.Freelyyou have received;freelygive. 9Do not carry any gold or silver or copper in your belts.…

Now I posted the verses that use this word on the subject of healing. but it is used in the same manner when receiving anything from the Father. It gives and the context of a motion from the receiver, an action associated with the anticipation of coming into and taking hold of the thing to receive.

And forgive me but the best way to describe this is with football to me… a quarterback has the ball, the play is set and the receiver has a path he has been given to run out in anticipation of receiving the ball. He runs his path and looks back, waiting to see the ball coming, and once he has it, he gives his all to take it to the end of his run.

Now to my main point, WoF is not about how others have a lack of faith or more faith, or even that faith can be measured in a way like that. But that 1.) faith must be seen or heard 2.) faith must be received and 3.) it must be realeased.
To start, to see or hear.

The Word Brings Salvation
…13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14Howthencan they callonthe Onethey have not believed in?Andhowcan they believe in the Oneof whomthey have not heard?Andhowcan they hearwithoutsomeone to preach? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”…

akouó: to hear, listen
Original Word: ἀκούω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: akouó
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-oo'-o)
Short Definition: I hear, listen
Definition: I hear, listen, comprehend by hearing; pass: is heard, reported.

HELPS Word-studies
191 akoúō – properly, to hear (listen); (figuratively) to hear God's voice which prompts Him to birth faith within (cf. Ro 10:17). See 189 (akoē).
[191 (akoúō) is the root of the English term, "acoustics."]
Now this aspect shows that faith is born of the word of God being received, Faith is born on any subject of God, out of deep reflection in the word, on the subject. But that I not where faith ends.

Fait pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.h is taken by us and and it is being fully persuaded and convinced, calling the word truth.

Hebrews 11:1-3King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith is the unwavering conviction that everything in the word of God is as it is said. There is no compromise to it, that God said it, I believe it, that settles it. If He says I am save by grace, that settles that, if He says I am free in Him and a slave to righteousness, that settles it, if He says I am Healed of ALL things, that settles it.
But so the question is, why then are people with faith, not healed, why can thousands pray for one person and they die! I will be bold enough to say it is not just about having faith but releasing it!
Faith, must be released through action, through the Christian work.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

ergon: work
Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
HELPS Word-studies
2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something.2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

nekros: dead
Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Short Definition: dead, a corpse
Definition: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
HELPS Word-studies
3498 nekrós (an adjective, derived from nekys, "a corpse, a dead body") – dead; literally, "what lacks life"; dead; (figuratively) not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions ("unable, ineffective, dead, powerless," L & N, 1, 74.28); unresponsive to life-giving influences (opportunities); inoperative to the things of God.
3498 /nekrós ("corpse-like") is used as a noun in certain contexts ("the dead"), especially when accompanied by the Greek definite article. The phrase, ek nekron ("from the dead"), lacks the Greek article to give the sense "from what is of death."

To finish this point to bring it home, Faith, without action is dead. We believing being moved by emotion and feeling into saying oh that can’t be true, God doesn’t heal like that. Or no I am not worthy. I don’t have enough faith. Brothers and sister, it is not that, again to foot ball, we give up to soon, we don’t expect it. If we only knew, the QB was just fighting for a chance to throw the ball, and by the time he had it in the air, we had already given up, and stopped looking back. Its not about a lack, but giving up on a conviction to soon, and accepting, the lie that God doesn’t do those things. Stand not on the opinion of man but the word of God.

First, to get it out of the way, let us talk about these Strong's definitions you keep posting. Strong's is a concordance, tied to the KJV. So, you take a word in the KJV which may or may not be translated correctly, and you take that English word and go backwards to the Greek.

I'm not saying these definitions are necessarily wrong, but they are all very simple words. If you know Greek, you do not need these concordance definitions. If you don't know Greek, who cares?

Second, although you do bold the word in English, then post it in Strong's, you fail to explain, in English about each word and why it applies, (if it does!) to the verses you are discussing.

Next, my suggestion is to buy either a book or on-line copy of a lexicon Bauer (BDAG or BAGD) which means you have to at least know the Greek letters. A lexicon takes a word in Greek, and defines it, plus shows the verses it is in, and sometimes the noun case or verbal endings. And how the word means different things in the active, middle and passive tenses for some verbs, although I see that akouo above does mention that. Or how different cases affect the nouns.


This is vital, because Greek, like most languages, has more than one word for the same thing. That is where Strong's becomes an issue, because there are often more than one word in Greek or Hebrew for the same words. Plus, a good lexicon will tell you if something in Greek is a "Hebraic" phrase or word - in other words, something grammatically right in Hebrew, which is not in Greek, requiring an understanding of Hebrew, too.


As for your verses, I put a very clear explanation on page 37 of how Isa. 53 is not about healing. And you completely fail to answer it, even though you quoted it, to say nothing of a very failed attempt to explain faith by way of a very difficult verb - lambano.

As for explaining away the fact that although God does heal, it is called a "miracle" because of the very fact that it is not the norm. And you are making into a works gospel, when in fact, God even heals those who are not saved and have no faith if that is his will. Just as he did in the gospels.

Now to my main point, WoF is not about how others have a lack of faith or more faith, or even that faith can be measured in a way like that. But that 1.) faith must be seen or heard 2.) faith must be received and 3.) it must be realeased.
To start, to see or hear.

After waiting 38 pages now for your supposed rebuttal and showing me why and how what I said is not true, you have demonstrated to me, that not only do you not have a clue about Greek, but you do not have a clue about exegesis and hermeneutics, and that you are in a cult, that does not allow you the freedom to study these things on your own and to figure out the errors in your Rhema program.

If you are serious about the bible, I would recommend you go to a reputable, ATS accredited seminary and learn to really read Greek and Hebrew, study history, hermeneutics, and theology. The seminary I went to the professors introduced all the aspects of theology, and then were told to study the Bible and figure out what we believed theologically. That was a real shock for the younger students, who wanted to be told how to think, but that is not good theological training, it is in fact brainwashing. Like what you seem to be getting.

Here is a link to certified seminaries of many different denominations:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...gical_Schools_in_the_United_States_and_Canada

By the way, my Seminary was Baptist, but we had students from literally every denomination, including charismatic. So mainline (like Anglican), evangelical, Reformed, independent, Mennonite - they were all there. And why? Because the professors were incredibly qualified, they were also mentors, former missionaries, and the atmosphere at the seminary was one of love and encouragement.

And for those students who were not Baptist they were encouraged to find a mentor within their denomination who would be qualified to teach theology, and do some extra credit courses with them.

The Rhema you go to is one sided, and it is not teaching you to discern and read the Bible correctly. And I will bet my bottom dollar that either they don't have Ph.D's or they have them from some diploma mill like Kenneth and Gloria Copeland.

 

[wanderer6059]

here Angela let me show you how much of your post actually had context... and nothing...

Sister, this is what i use to study.

the three closest word for word translations to the original text.
KJV,NASB,ESV


a stone edition Tanach,Strong's Concordance,NAS Exhaustive Concordance,Englishman's Concordance,vine's expository dictionary,Thayer's Greek Lexicon, and The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon.

thats the basics, sometimes i try and go deeper lol

most of my professors have Ph.D's

the missionaries training they put us through is designed by multiple members of the special forces for serviceability.

i post only the strong's because it is the most basic that others on this forum will read, and you haven't refuted anything, it looks like you wasted whatever money you spent at whatever school you whet to, i hope it wasn't a degree mill.

the KJV, not even gonna get into that and make this another KJV only thread.

why don't you do what you are crying to everyone else to do post some scripture, prove me wrong, and show your wisdom.

you can't thats right because you don't know how to refute truth.

 

[stonesoffire]

I get it now wanderer. Persistent faith. Thanks!

 

[bluto]

here Angela let me show you how much of your post actually had context... and nothing...



Sister, this is what i use to study.

the three closest word for word translations to the original text.
KJV,NASB,ESV


a stone edition Tanach,Strong's Concordance,NAS Exhaustive Concordance,Englishman's Concordance,vine's expository dictionary,Thayer's Greek Lexicon, and The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon.

thats the basics, sometimes i try and go deeper lol

most of my professors have Ph.D's

the missionaries training they put us through is designed by multiple members of the special forces for serviceability.

i post only the strong's because it is the most basic that others on this forum will read, and you haven't refuted anything, it looks like you wasted whatever money you spent at whatever school you whet to, i hope it wasn't a degree mill.

the KJV, not even gonna get into that and make this another KJV only thread.

why don't you do what you are crying to everyone else to do post some scripture, prove me wrong, and show your wisdom.

you can't thats right because you don't know how to refute truth.[/QUOTE)

Ok wanderer, who are these wof professors/Scholars of yours that have PHD's in Theology, Hebrew, Greek from Rehma? I would love to know their names and I'm not talking about some hand me down honorary degree. Furthermore, sister angela just handed you your lunch because there's difference between going to Semanary or Bible College (Where I attended Biola College many years ago) than you just bragging about how to use Strong's Lexicon or his Concordance.

Let's test your use of of Strong's Lexicon. Tell me what the following verse means? "So then my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, , not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12. Please exegete this scripture? Lastly, what does this statement mean? "the missionaries training they put us through is designed by multiple members of the special forces for serviceability." Who are these special forces for serviceability? I'm a Vietnam Veteran and I've never hear of them even to this day?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[posthuman]

Well i haven't studied any Greek. Haven't been to any Bible college at all.

i studied math. A lot of it. And art, and physics.

Here's something i learned from math - logic. Proof. Which also includes disproof. One way to disprove something quite elegantly is to provide a single counterexample.


So...


Has the body of anyone with saving faith who does right in God's sight ever worn out with age, decay and disease?

Has any saint ever died from natural causes? ((in the flesh, of course - since that appears to be the 'wof' focus...?))

 

[wanderer6059]

Ok wanderer, who are these wof professors/Scholars of yours that have PHD's in Theology, Hebrew, Greek from Rehma? I would love to know their names and I'm not talking about some hand me down honorary degree.

Look them up yourself, you seem perfectly well enabled to find all the trolly false teaching sites your heart loves, you can find there names to. unless that would be like looking up scripture for you, i know from you post you barely know how to do that.

Furthermore, sister angela just handed you your lunch because there's difference between going to Semanary or Bible College (Where I attended Biola College many years ago) than you just bragging about how to use Strong's Lexicon or his Concordance.

no she didn't shes floundering just like you are at finding scripture in context. and i never "bragged" about using strongs, i just said it was ONE of the study tools i used. oH and i will have my masters through Rhema by oklahoma wesleyan university, soo yeah its accredited.

Let's test your use of of Strong's Lexicon. Tell me what the following verse means? "So then my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, , not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12. Please exegete this scripture?

Christian life is to be lived in a manner and a spirit of awe and careful watchfulness, as in the eternal presence of God"s working. but thats from my thayer's, not strong's

Lastly, what does this statement mean? "the missionaries training they put us through is designed by multiple members of the special forces for serviceability." Who are these special forces for serviceability? I'm a Vietnam Veteran and I've never hear of them even to this day?

no that is one SC mistake, its survivability. basically learning how to live off the land and a really intense hike.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Sometimes exegetes give me the impression that their pride out of the vast knowledge of Scriptures has blinded them from seeing true wisdom from God.

 

[wanderer6059]

Well i haven't studied any Greek. Haven't been to any Bible college at all.

i studied math. A lot of it. And art, and physics.

Here's something i learned from math - logic. Proof. Which also includes disproof. One way to disprove something quite elegantly is to provide a single counterexample.


So...


Has the body of anyone with saving faith who does right in God's sight ever worn out with age, decay and disease?

Has any saint ever died from natural causes? ((in the flesh, of course - since that appears to be the 'wof' focus...?))

it's not a rejection of Death in the physical, that is still clearly here. its not even a rejection of an end of life sickness. but a chronic illness keeping you bed ridden yeah that's no what God says we have to "suffer" and if God is sovereign he has the ability to assist and compel the natural healing posses, and we can ask for that.

 

[CharlieGrown]

Well i haven't studied any Greek. Haven't been to any Bible college at all.

i studied math. A lot of it. And art, and physics.

Here's something i learned from math - logic. Proof. Which also includes disproof. One way to disprove something quite elegantly is to provide a single counterexample.


So...


Has the body of anyone with saving faith who does right in God's sight ever worn out with age, decay and disease?

Has any saint ever died from natural causes? ((in the flesh, of course - since that appears to be the 'wof' focus...?))

Looking for a single example to prove the wof equation would require that we know all unknown variables in the healing/prosperity event are accounted for, right? That would affect the result. I like the idea of using a formula to disprove wof, since that is their basic language but all unknowns would have to be accounted for imo. But my gift of math is not at your level.

Has the body of anyone with saving faith who does right in God's sight ever worn out with age, decay and disease?
How do we know the right amount of "right" in God's sight has been fulfilled?

Has any saint ever died from natural causes? ((in the flesh, of course - since that appears to be the 'wof' focus...?))
rhetorical right? However, Enoch, or Eisha? Unknown variable; what caused them to bypass death?

 

[bluto]

Why should I look them up? Since you made the claim your the one that has to provide the proof. You mean you don't know any of the professors names that your learning from that you say they have PHD's? I'm convinced that your "embellishing" their credentials just like hagin and other wof teachers/preachers embellish their stories. Hagin was a master of embellishment.

You missied the point of why I quoted Philippians 2:12. When it says in the verse to "work out your salvation" it is not talking about working to get saved or working to show that you are saved. That word "salvation" in the context means for the Phillipians who are already saved to work out the "delilverance/solution" of their problems. Read the context starting at vs1.

And how about learning how to live by knowing your Bible? That way you can talk to anybody per 1 Peter 3:15. PS: Did you know Thayer was a Unitarian?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[bluto]

Sometimes exegetes give me the impression that their pride out of the vast knowledge of Scriptures has blinded them from seeing true wisdom from God.

So tinkerbell, why is it that just because somebody "really" knows what their talking about has to be prideful? How do you know the operation of one's mind or their motives by "assuming?" And btw, wisdom is the ability to discern or judge what is true, right or lasting.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Tinkerbell725]

So tinkerbell, why is it that just because somebody "really" knows what their talking about has to be prideful? How do you know the operation of one's mind or their motives by "assuming?" And btw, wisdom is the ability to discern or judge what is true, right or lasting. IN GOD THE SON,bluto

It's just my impression. I am not assuming. It does not mean that if they know what they are talking about we should believe them. So what if they have studied somewhere they think special, it does not mean we should believe them. Human knowledge or understanding is foolishness in the eyes of God. God's revelation is above human reason. And it's easy to preach. Practising what you preach is the true wisdom of God.

 

[samuel23]

I was in WOF for years but eventually I came to realize that a lot of what they teach is not really scriptural. I believe a person can be healed and God may help in a financial situation, on the other hand God intends for us to go through life like everyone else, so there is no such thing as supernatural health and wealth from God for Christians. We have an example of supernatural health and wealth promised and given to Israel when they left Egypt...the first church was not given that.

 

[bluto]

It's just my impression. I am not assuming. It does not mean that if they know what they are talking about we should believe them. So what if they have studied somewhere they think special, it does not mean we should believe them. Human knowledge or understanding is foolishness in the eyes of God. God's revelation is above human reason. And it's easy to preach. Practising what you preach is the true wisdom of God.

Impression: an idea, feeling, or opinion about something or someone, especially one formed without conscious thought or on the basis of little evidence. And where does it say this in the Bible tinkerbell? "Human knowledge or understanding is foolishness in the eyes of God. God's revelation is above human reason. And it's easy to preach. Practising what you preach is the true wisdom of God.[/QUOTE]

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Angela53510]

You need some kind of reading comprehension lessons, as already mentioned by someone else.

Here below is the exegetical commentary

Look at the context of Isa. 53:5-6 (And do not leave off verse 6, because it is important in context!) It is about SIN!! Not about healing. Even the Septuagint acknowledges that. Israel was sin sick and needed "healing!" Healing from what? Let's look at the verses again.


"But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:5-6

Let's see the main words:

transgressions
iniquities
chastisement
gone astray
turned our own way
the iniquity of us all.


These words are all about sin - rebellion, iniquity. You can't just pluck out the 4th line and claim it is about healing, when all the surrounding verses, in fact all of Isa. 53 is about sin, and the Messiah and the atonement saving us from our sins.


There there is the 1 Peter passage, which quotes it.

""He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24 ESV"

Notice the words in the first part of the sentence have to do with the last part of the verse.

bore our sins
die to sin
live to righteousness.

So what are we healed from?? From sin and unrighteousness. There is absolutely nothing to do in context with physical healing, in either Isa. 53:5-6 or 1 Peter 2:24.

Try reading the verses for what they are saying, not the lies you have been fed by the Word Faith movement!!

In fact, if you read Isa. 53 and those verses in context, here are the verses that finish that chapter on the suffering Messiah. What are they about?

They are about salvation from sin and evil!

"Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors." Isa. 53:10-12

Read all of Isaiah 53, and realize it goes together. One part of one line, talking about healing, in the context of talking about healing of our spiritual sins, means those "wounds" are sin and death. Not my metaphor, but Isaiah's.

And if you really want to know what the word WOUND means to Isaiah, then read the whole book of Isaiah. Because the opening chapter explains this prophecy is to a "diseased" (spiritually) and unrighteous and sinful Israel.


"1 The vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem that Isaiah son of Amoz saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

2 Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth!For the Lord has spoken:
“I reared children and brought them up,
but they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knows its master,
the donkey its owner’s manger,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.”

4 Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
and turned their backs on him.

5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness—
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with olive oil." Isa. 1;1-6

The entire prophecy is to Israel, so that they will hear about the Messiah, who will heal their diseased and sin sick land. Note verses 1 and 3! To Judah, Jerusalem, and in verse 3 - Israel.

Do not make this prophecy about yourself, unless you take it in context.

What does God call Israel? A SINFUL NATION! He is talking about the wounds of Israel spiritually. This is Isaiah, not me, not my opinion.

Last part of verse 5 says,

"Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted."

Notice that the metaphor of an injured head - or our thoughts is intricately linked to the WHOLE HEART BEING AFFLICTED!

Why are they affected?

Because they are a people:

laden with iniquity
offspring of evil doers
children who deal corruptly
forsake the Lord
despised the Holy One of Israel
utterly estranged Verse 4
This is what context is all about!! What was Isaiah's message?

"And he said, “Go, and say to this people:“‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
11 Then I said, “How long, O Lord?” Isa. 6:9-11

Israel would not and could not listen, but God warned them anyway. And he gave hope, in the future suffering servant, the Messiah, who would heal the "wounds" of sin sickness. That is the prophecy in Isa. 53, connected to Isaiah 1.

Why? Why did the Father have to send his Son? To physically heal us? Not there in any way, shape of form! He sent his Son to suffer and die because we were diseased from sin and evil.

"Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil." Isa. 1:5-6

Those wounds in Isa. 53, are in context with words about sin and transgression. There is not a single word there about physical healing, although certainly, part of the Messiah's ministry was to heal us from our sin, and physical healing was part of Jesus earthly ministry.

Wounds - sin, iniquity, unrighteousness, evil, corruption, forsaking God, get it??

"Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin," Isa. 53:10

See - The end of Isaiah 53 makes it clear - The suffering servant makes his life an offering for SIN!

Another reason why both WoF and Hypergrace are such dangerous heresies. They take the Biblical definitions and the purpose Christ came to die and twist them beyond recognition from what the Bible says

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”" Matt 1:21

PS. Please post all your verses in RED. Then you will see how you basically just pull part of a verse or a verse out of context. I want long red passages, and a thorough analysis of the words. I pray you will do this, so you can understand the context of all of Isaiah and specifically Isa. 53. A prophet, like the other prophets, who prophesy against Israel because of her sins. And Isa. 53 is the hope that a Saviour will come and save the people from their sins.


My challenge to all is that you read Isaiah and all the Old Testament prophets, and then you will understand the message of the Bible. That we are a sinful and evil people, and Jesus came to save us from our sins and make us righteous.

This post below is the comment on your poor job of posting simple Greek words from Strong's and a suggestion you actually get some real Bible training before you go into ministry. Oh, I know, Rhema is so practical! And simple! But more on that ahead!

First, to get it out of the way, let us talk about these Strong's definitions you keep posting. Strong's is a concordance, tied to the KJV. So, you take a word in the KJV which may or may not be translated correctly, and you take that English word and go backwards to the Greek.

I'm not saying these definitions are necessarily wrong, but they are all very simple words. If you know Greek, you do not need these concordance definitions. If you don't know Greek, who cares?

Second, although you do bold the word in English, then post it in Strong's, you fail to explain, in English about each word and why it applies, (if it does!) to the verses you are discussing.

Next, my suggestion is to buy either a book or on-line copy of a lexicon Bauer (BDAG or BAGD) which means you have to at least know the Greek letters. A lexicon takes a word in Greek, and defines it, plus shows the verses it is in, and sometimes the noun case or verbal endings. And how the word means different things in the active, middle and passive tenses for some verbs, although I see that akouo above does mention that. Or how different cases affect the nouns.


This is vital, because Greek, like most languages, has more than one word for the same thing. That is where Strong's becomes an issue, because there are often more than one word in Greek or Hebrew for the same words. Plus, a good lexicon will tell you if something in Greek is a "Hebraic" phrase or word - in other words, something grammatically right in Hebrew, which is not in Greek, requiring an understanding of Hebrew, too.


As for your verses, I put a very clear explanation on page 37 of how Isa. 53 is not about healing. And you completely fail to answer it, even though you quoted it, to say nothing of a very failed attempt to explain faith by way of a very difficult verb - lambano.

As for explaining away the fact that although God does heal, it is called a "miracle" because of the very fact that it is not the norm. And you are making into a works gospel, when in fact, God even heals those who are not saved and have no faith if that is his will. Just as he did in the gospels.



After waiting 38 pages now for your supposed rebuttal and showing me why and how what I said is not true, you have demonstrated to me, that not only do you not have a clue about Greek, but you do not have a clue about exegesis and hermeneutics, and that you are in a cult, that does not allow you the freedom to study these things on your own and to figure out the errors in your Rhema program.

If you are serious about the bible, I would recommend you go to a reputable, ATS accredited seminary and learn to really read Greek and Hebrew, study history, hermeneutics, and theology. The seminary I went to the professors introduced all the aspects of theology, and then were told to study the Bible and figure out what we believed theologically. That was a real shock for the younger students, who wanted to be told how to think, but that is not good theological training, it is in fact brainwashing. Like what you seem to be getting.

Here is a link to certified seminaries of many different denominations:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...gical_Schools_in_the_United_States_and_Canada

By the way, my Seminary was Baptist, but we had students from literally every denomination, including charismatic. So mainline (like Anglican), evangelical, Reformed, independent, Mennonite - they were all there. And why? Because the professors were incredibly qualified, they were also mentors, former missionaries, and the atmosphere at the seminary was one of love and encouragement.

And for those students who were not Baptist they were encouraged to find a mentor within their denomination who would be qualified to teach theology, and do some extra credit courses with them.

The Rhema you go to is one sided, and it is not teaching you to discern and read the Bible correctly. And I will bet my bottom dollar that either they don't have Ph.D's or they have them from some diploma mill like Kenneth and Gloria Copeland.

here Angela let me show you how much of your post actually had context... and nothing...



Sister, this is what i use to study.

the three closest word for word translations to the original text.
KJV,NASB,ESV


a stone edition Tanach,Strong's Concordance,NAS Exhaustive Concordance,Englishman's Concordance,vine's expository dictionary,Thayer's Greek Lexicon, and The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon.

thats the basics, sometimes i try and go deeper lol

most of my professors have Ph.D's

the missionaries training they put us through is designed by multiple members of the special forces for serviceability.

i post only the strong's because it is the most basic that others on this forum will read, and you haven't refuted anything, it looks like you wasted whatever money you spent at whatever school you whet to, i hope it wasn't a degree mill.

the KJV, not even gonna get into that and make this another KJV only thread.

why don't you do what you are crying to everyone else to do post some scripture, prove me wrong, and show your wisdom.

you can't thats right because you don't know how to refute truth.

As far as this post, I did look up Rhema, and it was a bit shocking what I found. But more in the next post.

 

[Angela53510]

So I looked up your Rhema Bible "college" Wanderer.

Bible School - Bible College | Rhema Bible Training College''

I hope this is the right one. I'm assuming yes, because of their references to Hagin, but if I am wrong, please correct me and give me the correct link.

Regarding all your vaunted professors. Here is what the link says:

Faculty & Instructors

What Sort of Ministerial Experience Do the Rhema Instructors Have?Rev. Kenneth W. Hagin: We have a good blend of instructors with various types and levels of experience in the ministry. But every one of the teaching staff stands in a ministerial office as defined in Ephesians 4:11, with the anointing to fulfill the responsibilities of that particular office.
Rev. Lynette Hagin: Each of our instructors was a success in his own individual ministry that was a prerequisite to his selection as a Rhema instructor. Our instructors are here because God called them to teach others what they were so successful in doing.
Rev. Kenneth W. Hagin: I think it is of utmost importance that those training for the ministry are taught by instructors with proven, successful ministerial experience—not by individuals who have only studied books but have never made that knowledge work in actual experience.

So, who are they and what are their credentials? I guess we may never know. Any kind of college, university or seminary always has a faculty list, usually with their qualifications and what they teach. I know my seminary does! For that matter, so did my undergrad university and the university where my father was a professor also listed every professor in that huge Faculty, which you need when you have 38.000 students.



Then there is the training program. I searched in vain, but I saw no courses in Greek, Hebrew, Hermeneutics, etc, etc. And mostly undergrad courses.

Two-Year Ministry Minor Programs of Study

Our two-year ministry minor program, which all RBTC graduates must complete, is specially designed to grow you as a believer and equip you to live successfully. You'll build a solid biblical foundation that will help you thrive in your church, community, career, relationships, and family. This program also positions you to receive third-year specialized training at RBTC.
Study Programs

Two-Year Ministry Minor Programs of Study

2 Year Ministry Fundamentals Course Titles
2 Year Itinerant Ministry Course Titles
2 Year Missions Course Titles
2 Year Pastors Program Course Titles
2 Year Student Ministries Course Titles
Three-Year Ministry Major Programs of Study

After successfully completing a Two-Year Ministry Minor Program of Study a student may choose one of these Three-Year Ministry Major Programs of Study.
3 Year Rhema School of Biblical Studies - (RSBS) Course Titles
3 Year Rhema School of Helps Ministry - (RSHM) Course Titles
3 Year Rhema School of Itinerant Ministry - (RSIM) Course Titles
3 Year Rhema School of Pastoral Ministry - (RSPM) Course Titles
3 Year Rhema School of Student Ministries - (RSSM) Course Titles
3 Year Rhema School of Worship - (RSW) Course Titles
3 Year Rhema School of World Missions - (RSWM) Course Titles

Four-Year Ministry Major Advanced Program of Study

For the Four-Year track, students must complete one of the other Three-Year Programs of Study and then take an alternate Fourth-Year Program of Study to get advanced ministry training.
Rhema School of Biblical Studies
Rhema School of Itinerant Ministry
Rhema School of Pastoral Ministry
Rhema School of Student Ministries
Rhema School of Worship
Rhema School of World Missions

So just a lot of courses on healing, the Spirit, quite a few book studies, (everyone needs one of those!) and theological classes like an entire course on "Angels and Demons" Very sad! Very sad!


So are you on the two year, the three year or the "advanced" four year program?

I think this might look like i am trying to put you down. That is not my intent. I admire your hunger to know God and to study. But I am appalled at the education you are getting, which shows in everything you post, and your complete inability to refute the OP or post #731 in this thread. You know, the one from the Bible which shows how Isa. 53 is not about healing, but about salvation from sin!

 

[CharlieGrown]

Watch Benny Hinn And Some Of America's Top False Prophets Just Make Stuff Up And Tell You It's Prophecy • Now The End Begins

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Impression: an idea, feeling, or opinion about something or someone, especially one formed without conscious thought or on the basis of little evidence. And where does it say this in the Bible tinkerbell? "Human knowledge or understanding is foolishness in the eyes of God. God's revelation is above human reason. And it's easy to preach. Practising what you preach is the true wisdom of God.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto[/QUOTE]


WOF is worldly wisdom

1 Corinthians 3:19

18Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” 20And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”…


1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?