Tongues???
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True, Paul did say that not every one will speak in tongues. So we should not insist that every one does. But Paul also said he wished we all would, so I have to believe in part that it's possible. What this is all about is not trying to force everyone to do so, but to change the minds of those who won't even consider giving it a chance.
Yeah, good luck with that one, eh?
Yeah, good luck with that one, eh?
True, Paul did say that not every one will speak in tongues. So we should not insist that every one does. But Paul also said he wished we all would, so I have to believe in part that it's possible. What this is all about is not trying to force everyone to do so, but to change the minds of those who won't even consider giving it a chance.
Yeah, good luck with that one, eh?
Yeah, good luck with that one, eh?
I think most of pauls message is missed by the church. the purpose of the various gifts distributed are to bring us together and edify one another, rather than turn to judging each other for what gifts we have been given. the theme of " the foot doeant say to the eye you must be ab eye, or the hand say to the mouth, stop speaking and become a hand"
the teaching that the boidy has many parts made for different aspects, the person who speaks in tongues, should use that gift in proportion to thier faith, and the one who is given the gift of prophecy should also do the same, the encouragers should encourage, teachers should teach snd so on.....but our gifts arent meant to turn us against each other, that part is our own fault, because Christ Gave gifts as He determined so that through the bond of Peace we may edify and strengthen one another in Knowledge through the spirit. If our gift of tounges makes us feel as if the person who doesnt have that Gift is less, or they dont have a purpose commissioned By God through thier gifts, we may be misusing that gift or not grasping its value
That is not the case. This is what was accepted as the GENUINE TONGUES for centuries. The Pentecostals in 1906 themselves changed the definition to include the ecstatic utterances that are falsely called Tongues today. I totally agree GOD does not CHANGE, including the way Tongues was originally demonstrated.
Acts 2:5-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] There were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And they were astounded and amazed, saying, “Look, aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] How is it that each of us can hear in our own native language?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Parthians, Medes, Elamites; those who live in Mesopotamia, in Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking the magnificent acts of God in our own languages.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They were all astounded and perplexed, saying to one another, “What could this be?”
That is what is NOT being done today, hence as the Jews would say, if it not the same as the original miracle, it is a counterfeit.
Acts 10:45-47 (GWT)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the believers who were circumcised and who had come with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured on people who were not Jewish.
[SUP]46 [/SUP] They heard these non-Jewish people speaking in other languages and praising God. Then Peter said,
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “No one can refuse to baptize these people with water. They have received the Holy Spirit in the same way that we did.”
Acts 2:5-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] There were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And they were astounded and amazed, saying, “Look, aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] How is it that each of us can hear in our own native language?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Parthians, Medes, Elamites; those who live in Mesopotamia, in Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking the magnificent acts of God in our own languages.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They were all astounded and perplexed, saying to one another, “What could this be?”
That is what is NOT being done today, hence as the Jews would say, if it not the same as the original miracle, it is a counterfeit.
Acts 10:45-47 (GWT)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the believers who were circumcised and who had come with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured on people who were not Jewish.
[SUP]46 [/SUP] They heard these non-Jewish people speaking in other languages and praising God. Then Peter said,
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “No one can refuse to baptize these people with water. They have received the Holy Spirit in the same way that we did.”
Exactly. Why I otta rep you for that bit of wisdom!
I think tongues gets debated so much because they typically are more publically noticeable than the other gifts. We tend to argue that which we see more of. And there's a fine line between saying/hearing 'you really ought to consider this' and 'you really ought to be doing this'. If someone is not called to speak in tongues then that's fine, I got no argument against that. But when people won't even put the possibility on the table, that's when I have to show that he Bible does indeed tell us all to at least consider it and why.
I think tongues gets debated so much because they typically are more publically noticeable than the other gifts. We tend to argue that which we see more of. And there's a fine line between saying/hearing 'you really ought to consider this' and 'you really ought to be doing this'. If someone is not called to speak in tongues then that's fine, I got no argument against that. But when people won't even put the possibility on the table, that's when I have to show that he Bible does indeed tell us all to at least consider it and why.
I donno, VCO. I hear your arguments and I understand where you get them; but in the end I see the Bible teaching how and why and I see people doing the how and receiving the why, which leaves me with no other position to take than you are wrong because when used in faith it actually does work as God said it would.
Perhaps that might be another thing to study for you. If all the answers of men say it's wrong, then why does it work exactly as described?
Perhaps that might be another thing to study for you. If all the answers of men say it's wrong, then why does it work exactly as described?
ha..i cant take credit its Just what paul taught on the matter.
and i think the issue in my view with what your saying, is if someone doesnt receive tongues, it isnt easy for them to believe someone else has. faith is our Goal, the simplicity of Just believing what we learn from Jesus through His spirit. so if we believe scripture there is nothing to say that the gifts have ended or will ever end, as long as the holy spirit remains so the gifts of the spirit will remain for the purpose of edifying each other. even tongues works for others because if a person prays in tongues and is edifyed themselves, then they later can share that with another to strengthen them. or maybe someone Just receives tongues and another person can Help them along in understanding it who has had that particular gift for a longer time. if we will just stick to what the word teaches about everything, stop turning one scripture against another, and not try to interpret its meaning ourselves, but instead learn from the other scriptures until things come into better focus we will never stray from the truth. i believe its imperitive that the church stay with what is written and interpret things that way because God designed His word for our salvation, and glorification of His Son.
and i think the issue in my view with what your saying, is if someone doesnt receive tongues, it isnt easy for them to believe someone else has. faith is our Goal, the simplicity of Just believing what we learn from Jesus through His spirit. so if we believe scripture there is nothing to say that the gifts have ended or will ever end, as long as the holy spirit remains so the gifts of the spirit will remain for the purpose of edifying each other. even tongues works for others because if a person prays in tongues and is edifyed themselves, then they later can share that with another to strengthen them. or maybe someone Just receives tongues and another person can Help them along in understanding it who has had that particular gift for a longer time. if we will just stick to what the word teaches about everything, stop turning one scripture against another, and not try to interpret its meaning ourselves, but instead learn from the other scriptures until things come into better focus we will never stray from the truth. i believe its imperitive that the church stay with what is written and interpret things that way because God designed His word for our salvation, and glorification of His Son.
That is you cup of tea and not mine. I want you to know, that I do not think of you as less than a Christian brother, just because we disagree on this subject. I do hope and pray that you do know, that Satan and his forces love to imitate God's Miracles to try to deceive us Believers. There are way too many Christians these last days, who trust what they see, over what the Bible says; and even some who think everything that appears miraculous is of GOD.
Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.
Like Dave Hunt used to say, "I fear that if a witch doctor dressed up in a suit and tie, toted a Bible, and spoke in tongues, many of you would listen to him preach all day long."
Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.
Like Dave Hunt used to say, "I fear that if a witch doctor dressed up in a suit and tie, toted a Bible, and spoke in tongues, many of you would listen to him preach all day long."
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As the Scripture informs us... signs are for those who believe not. Tongues confirms the unbelief of the apostate Jews. Prophecy for those who do have the faith of Christ abiding in them. There are no outwards signs gifts that shows a person has the fullness of the Holy Spirit. We receive that at our new birth.
Have you considered tongues have ceased along with any new prophecy and therefore new knowledge?
Have you considered tongues have ceased along with any new prophecy and therefore new knowledge?
Self edification is an act of self-righteousness. There is nothing we can do outwardly to prove we have the Spirit of Christ inwardly in us.
The Holy Spirit is not approving we should speak in a language we do not know,.But is showing a difference between one that does edify his own self and not the church..
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
The Holy Spirit is not approving we should speak in a language we do not know,.But is showing a difference between one that does edify his own self and not the church..
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Vco tounges have two manifestations, one talking in the spirit to god and the other in different languages, these things still exist today, i have heard stories from a friend evangelist, he was preaching to a group of asians who did not know english, he ended up talking in tounges and they could understand him.
The problem is that type of tounge isn't going to be seen in a church, because everyone has the same language, there is no need for it. If you want to know the truth in that area, i suggest you find an evangelist who has preached in other countries, and ask them about it.
I can understand your concern about satan imitating gods miracles, and he may in some circles, but that doesn't mean that all of us who have been given tounges, come from the devil does it?
Now for that to be true, that would mean somehow, instead of getting the holy spirit from god, we all ended up with an unholy spirit from the devil? That really doesnt make sense for alot of reasons, we can't have both spirits in us can we? Darkness cannot exist in light.
Im not saying that every tounge out there is from the spirit of god, but i can sure tell you that many people on here do have the gift of tounges that does come from the spirit of god.
Hence this is also why god tells us to test the spirits who do perform miracles, because they could come from god, but they could also come from the devil as well. He does not say every miracle is from god, or every miracle is not from god.
The problem is that type of tounge isn't going to be seen in a church, because everyone has the same language, there is no need for it. If you want to know the truth in that area, i suggest you find an evangelist who has preached in other countries, and ask them about it.
I can understand your concern about satan imitating gods miracles, and he may in some circles, but that doesn't mean that all of us who have been given tounges, come from the devil does it?
Now for that to be true, that would mean somehow, instead of getting the holy spirit from god, we all ended up with an unholy spirit from the devil? That really doesnt make sense for alot of reasons, we can't have both spirits in us can we? Darkness cannot exist in light.
Im not saying that every tounge out there is from the spirit of god, but i can sure tell you that many people on here do have the gift of tounges that does come from the spirit of god.
Hence this is also why god tells us to test the spirits who do perform miracles, because they could come from god, but they could also come from the devil as well. He does not say every miracle is from god, or every miracle is not from god.
But you miss one important point... satan will never glorify God. That is one of the test of the gifts - do they ultimately glorify God.
A tongues speaker who glorifies himself is false.
A tongues speaker who glorifies the church is false.
A tongues speaker who glorifies the gift is false.
But a tongues speaker who glorifies God meets the test.
satan or the flesh will be behind the first three. But never the fourth.
And yeah bro I can't wait until it's all over and over a glass of wine laugh at all this debating!
A tongues speaker who glorifies himself is false.
A tongues speaker who glorifies the church is false.
A tongues speaker who glorifies the gift is false.
But a tongues speaker who glorifies God meets the test.
satan or the flesh will be behind the first three. But never the fourth.
And yeah bro I can't wait until it's all over and over a glass of wine laugh at all this debating!
On a side not i just realized something. We need to be really careful and learn how to tell the difference between those of god and those from the devil.
We all know scripture has been used against us by the devil, its been used to bring up emotions of fear, hoplessness, and doubt even to the point of suicide in some people.
Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
While that scripture is full of truth, one needs to ask oneself, can the devil also use it to bring up emotions of fear, fear of being lead astray from God?
Is it being used to detour you from growing spiritually in the gifts of the holy spirit, or stopping you from receiving them all together
We all know scripture has been used against us by the devil, its been used to bring up emotions of fear, hoplessness, and doubt even to the point of suicide in some people.
Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
While that scripture is full of truth, one needs to ask oneself, can the devil also use it to bring up emotions of fear, fear of being lead astray from God?
Is it being used to detour you from growing spiritually in the gifts of the holy spirit, or stopping you from receiving them all together