Is WOF of God or the devil?

[know1]

15 months of this garbage and you're still not listening. Yeah! It's been said. That you won't listen is your problem.

I am so terribly tired of the WoF crew belting out the false gospel until everyone else leaves, and then pats themselves on the back as if that is victory. It isn't. It's bait and switch for the new and naive.

An old word for WoF -- Pharisee.

Now, please continue, and don't forget the back pats.

Has it been that long? I knew I had been at this for a while, but 15 month?
If you were set against the truth of God's word, you wouldn't hate it so.
So far, no scripture for you or anyone else to back up what you believe.
Have you tried to disprove my exegesis of the scriptures I used yet? Have you found me twisting or perverting any verse?
Please, show me. Unlike you, I have build my doctrine on the word of God. If you can show me where I have perverted the word of God, I WILL change what I believe. But if all you have are examples of others abusing or misusing or failing to receive, then as far as I'm concerned, your argument has no weight. Like faith without works, it's worthless and has no power to back it.

 

[know1]

me either, Tourist, and we don't want to know as we're not into
the 'who's who' in the denominational derby -

we're just directly into Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit being our middle-Man of His good and precious Words...

This is not about denominations, it's about finding the truth of God's word.
But like a man that has offended a mother, because he said that her child was ugly, so are they who refuse to even look at the evidence in the word of God concerning WOF.

 

[know1]

Sometimes God will say "yes" and sometimes He will say "no".

Show me where that is written, that I may prove you wrong.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

The question is, did God tell Paul no, or not.
Answer. Not.
What God did was give him the solution to the problem.
Again, was God's grace sufficient to save you? Absolutely.
So how is it not sufficient to deliver Paul from a spirit that He can cast out?
If you get rid of the worker of a curse, the source of the problem will be gone.
James tell us to resist the devil and he WILL flee. There's no maybe or might, or even "if it's God's will" or not. If a child of God resist the devil with the word of God in the name of Jesus, there is no guessing as to what will happen. It's done, and God, through His word, will be the one who drove it out.
So if God sometimes says, yes, and sometime, no, then how do you stack that against the verse below?

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Can you show me where is says, no?

 

[trofimus]

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Can you show me where is says, no?

Health, wealth or wordly success are not any of His promises.

It can be given to us and sometimes not.

 

[bluto]

You still "DON'T GET IT" know1 because your contradicting yourself. trofimus said, "Sometimes God will say "yes" and sometimes He will say "no"." The following is your answer? You then said, "Show me where that is written, that I may prove you wrong." You then quote the following verses below.


"2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

The question is, did God tell Paul no, or not.
Answer. Not."

What God said to Paul is His grace is sufficient for him. In other words, God's answer to Paul's prayer DID NOT remove the thorn, whatever the thorn may have been. What God did do was give him assurance that God would provide sufficient grace and divine strength to sustain him REGARDLESS of his trials. Please read 1 Corinthians 10:13.

So why are you saying "NOT?" Paul did not get healed nor did God remove the thorn in his flesh. God gave Paul the grace to live with his thorn. This proves that the "HERETICAL" teachings of wof that GUARANTED physical healing in the atonement is not true. It also means that sometimes God does heal and sometimes He does not. There millions of people with infirmities that are not healed physically but they are still able to do God's work in spite of the problem. In fact, sometimes the infirmity makes them a better person and God will use that to His glory. Just like at John 9 and the blind man starting at vs1.

Now know1, shoe me where I'm wrong and wof "HERETICAL" teachings are right?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[HisHolly]

RRead any Psalms lately? They disagree with you..

Health, wealth or wordly success are not any of His promises.

It can be given to us and sometimes not.

choosing sin always guaranteed a not.. otherwise it's all yes

 

[trofimus]

choosing sin always guaranteed a not.. otherwise it's all yes

Please, read the book of Job.

You are saying the same nonsense his friends were saying to him.

 

[bluto]

Show me where that is written, that I may prove you wrong.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

The question is, did God tell Paul no, or not.
Answer. Not.
What God did was give him the solution to the problem.
Again, was God's grace sufficient to save you? Absolutely.
So how is it not sufficient to deliver Paul from a spirit that He can cast out?
If you get rid of the worker of a curse, the source of the problem will be gone.
James tell us to resist the devil and he WILL flee. There's no maybe or might, or even "if it's God's will" or not. If a child of God resist the devil with the word of God in the name of Jesus, there is no guessing as to what will happen. It's done, and God, through His word, will be the one who drove it out.
So if God sometimes says, yes, and sometime, no, then how do you stack that against the verse below?

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Can you show me where is says, no?

Now know1, show me where I'm wrong and wof "HERETICAL" teachings are right? Opps, I almost forgot to address 2 Corinthians 1:20 about all the promises. The context of the verse is that all the promises which are made by way of Jesus Christ the Redeemer shall be fulfilled. In other words, Jesus Christ appearing 2000 years ago and what He did as promised have been confirmed with proof. Sort of like Romans 1:3,4 which declared/proved Jesus Christ was who He said He was by the power of His resurrection. This is the same idea with 2 Corinthians 1:20.


IN GOD THE SON,
bluto[/QUOTE]

 

[know1]

RRead any Psalms lately? They disagree with you.. choosing sin always guaranteed a not.. otherwise it's all yes

How true that is and thank you for bringing that up.

 

[BenFTW]

1. WoF is not biblical

2. Even if you will practice it, you will not have better results rate than a praying Cessationist. Sometimes God will say "yes" and sometimes He will say "no".

Our mindset is so very important to our experience in this life. Without faith it is impossible to please God. You speak of results and many Cessationists have none because not only do they not have faith they do not even have hope. They can't raise the dead, heal the leper, make the blind see, and have people be set free from pain both physical and emotional. Why? One might quote Jesus as saying, "Ye of little faith" but that isn't even accurate. They do not have faith at all because they do not even believe in the supernatural for today (many don't I should say, not all).

So you wish to discuss results but results are determined by one's faith. Even in discussing prayer God's Word says believe that you shall receive and it will be yours. It is a matter of belief, expectation, and faith. Faith being a trusting in God's, not only ability, but willingness to act upon your behalf. His word says that He hastens to do His word. How awesome is that!?

I am not advocating Word Of Faith, or a dogmatic mindset that denies natural cures or remedies that God provided through His creation. I am simply standing on God's word that speaks of faith, belief, and expectation and their necessity in getting results. This you cannot argue with unless you wish to deny scripture.

 

[know1]

You still "DON'T GET IT" know1 because your contradicting yourself. trofimus said, "Sometimes God will say "yes" and sometimes He will say "no"." The following is your answer? You then said, "Show me where that is written, that I may prove you wrong." You then quote the following verses below.


"2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

The question is, did God tell Paul no, or not.
Answer. Not."

What God said to Paul is His grace is sufficient for him. In other words, God's answer to Paul's prayer DID NOT remove the thorn, whatever the thorn may have been. What God did do was give him assurance that God would provide sufficient grace and divine strength to sustain him REGARDLESS of his trials. Please read 1 Corinthians 10:13.

So why are you saying "NOT?" Paul did not get healed nor did God remove the thorn in his flesh. God gave Paul the grace to live with his thorn. This proves that the "HERETICAL" teachings of wof that GUARANTED physical healing in the atonement is not true. It also means that sometimes God does heal and sometimes He does not. There millions of people with infirmities that are not healed physically but they are still able to do God's work in spite of the problem. In fact, sometimes the infirmity makes them a better person and God will use that to His glory. Just like at John 9 and the blind man starting at vs1.

Now know1, shoe me where I'm wrong and wof "HERETICAL" teachings are right?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

No sir, I did not contradict myself. If you understood what I was wrote, you would have seen that I was saying God gave Paul the answer to his problem, not that he had to suffer with it. Are you telling me that those who are withering away from a terminally wasting diseases, are being strengthened and sustained by God, when it kills them? Is the power of God resting on them who die from the sickness or disease? Do they believe and say they are strong by the power of God, while withering away? This is not the grace God was talking about that was sufficient for them, nor is His power or strength made perfect or known in their inability to get well. How is God glorified outside of faith?
But here again, we are digressing from the subject.
Please show me just one verse from the bible that condemns WOF. Just one.
Are you even able to produce even one verse to support your anti-WOF dogma?
You propagate hate towards the doctrine, but do you even know what it is about? If you say, health and wealth, then you are wrong. That is what many use it for. I hear many negative comments, but absolutely nothing to back it up, because I'm not on the subject of the health and wealth message.
I have another one for you.

Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

Why are the weak told to say, they are strong. Not, will be, as in future tense, but are, as in the here and now.
If the weak are to say they are strong, would it be any different than the sick to say, they are well?
And if God speaks of things which be not as though it was or is, are we suppose to do contrary, when we are told to be like Jesus, who was our example to follow.
I have another couple of verses that are about WOF.

Luk 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

If you understand what WOF is, then I ask you, what do the above scripture verses have to do with the truth of it?

 

[trofimus]

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Do not misuse this verse for "it is impossible to please God without faith in the prosperity gospel", or WoF or whatever fancy name we will give to this movement.

You speak of results and many Cessationists have none because not only do they not have faith they do not even have hope.

Again, every Christian have faith. Not every Christian have faith in WoF teaching originated in the USA last century. American Christianity full of money and wordly power.

They can't raise the dead, heal the leper, make the blind see, and have people be set free from pain both physical and emotional.

Pardon me, but you cant do that too, even with your WoF faith.
Why? Because it simply is not a true teaching. It does not work.

They do not have faith at all because they do not even believe in the supernatural for today (many don't I should say, not all).

Not true. We do not believe that we have the right for supernatural. Every miracle is a gift. Sometimes it is given, sometimes it is not. Its a huge difference from "not having faith in supernatural today".

 

[LaurenTM]

First off, this thread is not about the health and wealth message, so let's not go there. It's about words of faith and what the bible has to say about that.
Secondly, my aim or purpose for the thread was not nor is it now, to cause others to take up arm and take a side.
Is it too much to ask for you to look at scripture with me? Is there a reason why many of you have to take offense to this doctrine. How will you know if this doctrine is a truth of God or not if your heart is already hardened toward it?
Try and come to the table of reasoning BEFORE you take up arms and start shooting at me.
And thirdly, this is not about my honor, but about the truth of God's word to be heard and known.

just plain silly

as argumentative and devoid of helpful discussion as your op

 

[LaurenTM]

The scriptures I list below are what I understand why many of you are so blind and stupid. For truly it is scriptural and it most certainly works. If it didn't, then you are not born again sir.

this ^^^^ is a fine example of what many here attest is the basis for discussions with WOF adherents

insults and arrogance

maybe you should remember that a person in the other thread was banned for exactly that type of thing

 

[trofimus]

Sorry for have/has mistakes, I was writing the post in a haste.

 

[know1]

Now know1, show me where I'm wrong and wof "HERETICAL" teachings are right? Opps, I almost forgot to address 2 Corinthians 1:20 about all the promises. The context of the verse is that all the promises which are made by way of Jesus Christ the Redeemer shall be fulfilled. In other words, Jesus Christ appearing 2000 years ago and what He did as promised have been confirmed with proof. Sort of like Romans 1:3,4 which declared/proved Jesus Christ was who He said He was by the power of His resurrection. This is the same idea with 2 Corinthians 1:20.


IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

[/QUOTE] Okay, let's look at 2 Corinthians 1:20 again.

2Co 1:17 When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay?
2Co 1:18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.
2Co 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
2Co 1:20 For Verse 20 says, all the promises in Christ Jesus are yes, and so be it or be it so.

I would think the important question for this verse would be, what are the promises Paul is talking about that are in Christ? Are you in Christ? If so, then God's promises would be yes to you.
What about the verses below?

Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

No? What about the next ones?
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

And what about this promise?
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Does God say sometimes yes and sometimes no for the above verses?

 

[know1]

Health, wealth or wordly success are not any of His promises.

It can be given to us and sometimes not.

And where did you read that?

 

[trofimus]

And where did you read that?

First, it is always the positive case (it was promised) that is to be proved.

Second, you can read about Trophimus, Paul, Job, Timotheus. They all were very faithful persons and still you can read they had health problems.

 

[know1]

this ^^^^ is a fine example of what many here attest is the basis for discussions with WOF adherents

insults and arrogance

maybe you should remember that a person in the other thread was banned for exactly that type of thing

First, let's put this in its proper perspective.

Originally Posted by trofimus

Because the teaching of WoF:

1. is not biblical

2. does not work in practical life

This is a summary of why we are so blind and stupid. I hope you understand now.

And my response.
The scriptures I list below are what I understand why many of you are so blind and stupid. For truly it is scriptural and it most certainly works. If it didn't, then you are not born again sir.


I was simply affirming what the other person admitted.
And tell me, if someone keeps running into the same tree repeatedly, wouldn't you say that person is blind and stupid? I would.

the title of this thread...is WOF of God or the devil?

is guaranteed to cause some people to pick up arms before they even read the first paragraph...which is an indication of the sentiments of the op from the get go

that title alone indicates the importance of a questionable doctrine to the op...it is his doctrine and he knows better and is ready, by gum by gosh, to defend it with his honor...even if that means calling people liars and lumping everyone together in his own opinionated and volatile lack of comprehension

as argumentative and devoid of helpful discussion as your op

Not that it bothered me any, but were those comments you directed at me, a nice thing to say?
My point is that you ma'am have not been the most civil on this thread. The most civil on this thread probable is notmyown and BenFTW, and the friendliest, without question, has been HisHolly. Also, my comments were not directed at anyone in particular, but it was at those who have refused to look at the word of God. Because frankly I wonder how those who are against WOF, can believe as they do without ANY scripture to back it. What would you say if I were to do that? You have already said that it is MY doctrine, opinion, and that I don't comprehend the subject, when I am the only one giving scripture. Again, I have used scripture to back up what I have been saying from the beginning. Why not show me where I have misinterpreted or twisted the verses I listed, to prove me wrong. That's what I would do to prove someone else is wrong. That is if I understand the verse in question. So my question to you and others who disagree with the doctrine is, why do you hate it so, calling it a doctrine of devils, a heresy, a lie of the devil, a false doctrine, something that doesn't work, and the like, when you have absolutely nothing to back it up with, except personal experiences and that of others. So why don't you believe, when you confess to believe the bible. I have shown at least 4 or 5 different sets of scripture verses, and the bible says I only need two witnesses to make it true. Where are your witnesses? And if you don't understand what the doctrine is really about, as you don't, then all you have to do is ask me to explain it to you, and I would be more than happy to. From what I have seen thus far, only about two understand what it is about.

 

[trofimus]

First, let's put this in its proper perspective.

Originally Posted by trofimus

Because the teaching of WoF:

1. is not biblical

2. does not work in practical life

This is a summary of why we are so blind and stupid. I hope you understand now.

And my response.
The scriptures I list below are what I understand why many of you are so blind and stupid. For truly it is scriptural and it most certainly works. If it didn't, then you are not born again sir.


I was simply affirming what the other person admitted.

It was an obvious irony, not admitting your insults.