Calvinism - Another Heresy
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While I am not a calvinist there is much scripture supporting it like;1 Peter 2:9
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Ephesians 1:4-5
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:4
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love
John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Ephesians 1:11
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Romans 8:30
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
John 15:16
"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
John 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
There are quite a few more verses supporting it as well. I am under the belief that calvinism and arminianism are 2 sides of the same coin. God's ways are so far above our ways that we tend to try and put Him into isms we can comprehend. The pitiful and sad part begins when we use our very limited knowledge to bash others instead of loving one another and uplifting each other like we are supposed to.
Wasn't sure which thread this belonged in so I posted in both.
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Ephesians 1:4-5
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:4
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love
John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Ephesians 1:11
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Romans 8:30
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
John 15:16
"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
John 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
There are quite a few more verses supporting it as well. I am under the belief that calvinism and arminianism are 2 sides of the same coin. God's ways are so far above our ways that we tend to try and put Him into isms we can comprehend. The pitiful and sad part begins when we use our very limited knowledge to bash others instead of loving one another and uplifting each other like we are supposed to.
Wasn't sure which thread this belonged in so I posted in both.
Ok, I understand now.
Yeah, from the verse in Romans, its quite clear that the predestined will be called and will accept. So, you can call it "irresistible", I think.
And it is what the 4th point of calvinism says. That those who are predestined to be saved, will accept.
It does not say, though, anything about those who are not predestined to be saved. They can resist the call or accept it for a while and then will fall away.
Hm?
Yeah, from the verse in Romans, its quite clear that the predestined will be called and will accept. So, you can call it "irresistible", I think.
And it is what the 4th point of calvinism says. That those who are predestined to be saved, will accept.
It does not say, though, anything about those who are not predestined to be saved. They can resist the call or accept it for a while and then will fall away.
Hm?
S
I agree, letting others decide for themselves is definitely a given but by the same token it's also up to the moderators on this board if it is in its right place or where it does belong and they make that decision. That's why I said it's best to report it to them rather than voicing an opinion that really is not relevant.
S
In actuality only Calvinism with its tulip Doctrine is taught. Arminianism is not taught, but some of its principles I realized by those who read scripture and rightly divide the word of Truth. Those same people are the ones that teach against Calvinism because they've already seen the reality of scripture.
Calvinism or Reformed Theology is definitely taught, but the tenets of arminianism are not taught, they are discovered in God's Word.
The difference? The first is eisegesis and the second is exegesis.
Calvinism or Reformed Theology is definitely taught, but the tenets of arminianism are not taught, they are discovered in God's Word.
The difference? The first is eisegesis and the second is exegesis.
S
Therein lies your problem because vs 16 is not the only verse in the New Testament that says whoever. As a matter fact two verses later in 18, it also says whoever. That signifies that it is not a matter of God delegating or sovereignly electing people to believe, it's a matter if whoever believes and if you don't understand that then you don't understand basic English. See the following list of scriptures.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Whoever&qs_version=MOUNCE
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Whoever&qs_version=MOUNCE
So I think you are saying that a man CAN come to CHRIST but he won't come to CHRIST because of his carnal nature.
So then someone might ask,how would a person get saved,If they never have a desire to even think about getting saved?
Doesn't nature Itself declare that there Is a GOD?
True GOD does the work,we are HIS workmanship created In CHRIST JESUS unto good works which were before ordained that we should walk In them and Its true that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of GOD but John 3:16 still says whosoever will believe In HIM shall have Everlasting Life.
That sound like choice.
No man could believe in God unless he does the first works, our first love the hearing of His faith .No faith of God towards us, no belief in Jesus.
If he has began the good work of salvation in us, not from us he will finish it.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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D
Romans 1 really does say that nature itself screams "GOD!" And that does leave us with no excuse. Still, doesn't work for us. We're that thick/stupid/dead. If you keep reading Romans all the way up to 8, it is one defense we might make after the next after the next, until every excuse is used up. And still we will not! And then 8-9 (chapters, not verses) goes on to what God did/does/will do.
And, again, you're right, he did for whosoever-will-believe, but whosoever-wills never believed until God steps in.
Why is that important to me? I know if left to my own devices, I'd still be hating God. And if it is my strength to choose, my strength to hang on, my strength to effect my salvation? I'm doomed! I don't have that kind of strength. I'm that stupid. And that dead!
God gave us a super-duper, can't-get-any-better-than-this gift! I can't help but tell others in hopes he gives them the same gift. I've been trying to get my blood family in on this gift for 44 years now. They don't get it. I haven't given up, but part of the reason is because hubby did the same with his family. His brother and stepdad (the only man he knew as "Dad") were dying at the same time (for different reasons.) His brother was saved two weeks before he died. His dad was not. We don't know the list of who God saves, but I keep praying he saves all my family. It's such a super gift we don't deserve. And they refuse it, but that doesn't stop God from dinking his light on us anyway. (Dinking -- the sound of a light switch being flicked. lol)
Lots of people think Calvinists are fatalists. I'm not. I'm an optimist because God saved me, and I don't deserve it, even according to my choice. I'm not worth it, and yet he declared me worthy through his Son. In my mind, everyone is more worth-it than I am. When handed such a perfect gift, the only response is to let everyone else know where this great deal is to pass on our good fortune.
And, again, you're right, he did for whosoever-will-believe, but whosoever-wills never believed until God steps in.
Why is that important to me? I know if left to my own devices, I'd still be hating God. And if it is my strength to choose, my strength to hang on, my strength to effect my salvation? I'm doomed! I don't have that kind of strength. I'm that stupid. And that dead!
God gave us a super-duper, can't-get-any-better-than-this gift! I can't help but tell others in hopes he gives them the same gift. I've been trying to get my blood family in on this gift for 44 years now. They don't get it. I haven't given up, but part of the reason is because hubby did the same with his family. His brother and stepdad (the only man he knew as "Dad") were dying at the same time (for different reasons.) His brother was saved two weeks before he died. His dad was not. We don't know the list of who God saves, but I keep praying he saves all my family. It's such a super gift we don't deserve. And they refuse it, but that doesn't stop God from dinking his light on us anyway. (Dinking -- the sound of a light switch being flicked. lol)
Lots of people think Calvinists are fatalists. I'm not. I'm an optimist because God saved me, and I don't deserve it, even according to my choice. I'm not worth it, and yet he declared me worthy through his Son. In my mind, everyone is more worth-it than I am. When handed such a perfect gift, the only response is to let everyone else know where this great deal is to pass on our good fortune.
D
I tried. You ended the discussion at my second question. I'd "discuss" with you, but you aren't discussing. You're judging. I don't even mind someone judging, except you judge out of self-righteousness and ignorance, and then flaunt it like those are good things.
And you know what you haven't done yet -- anywhere? Backed a thing that you've said through the Bible. Personal opinion without wont of discussion comes in at the Misc. Forum, not BIBLE DISCUSSION FORUM!
And you know what you haven't done yet -- anywhere? Backed a thing that you've said through the Bible. Personal opinion without wont of discussion comes in at the Misc. Forum, not BIBLE DISCUSSION FORUM!
D
According to Merriam-Webster --
- 1: a dissenter from established religious dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth
- 2: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : nonconformist