The easy way to spot a false grace message

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#1
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#1
I have found a pretty simple way of spotting a false grace message.

The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace. This means by definition that you are still a servant of sin.

But the true grace message says when you are born again of the Spirit and truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. This means you are now made free from sin by Christ and are now also made a servant of righteousness.

So when the false grace camp say works do not matter, they also include the works of the flesh=sin in the whole mix of works as they say do not matter.

Sin is a work people, and sin does matter, that is also why Jesus came and was crucified. :)
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#2
#2
well yes of course!

the grace of God has provided the perfect sacrifice for every sin...save of course blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

sin does not have dominion over Christians...ANY Christian...BECAUSE of the work of Christ!

I don't understand why people keep trying to nail Christ back on the cross....

there is only one kind of grace provided by God, and that is through our Lord Jesus Christ

anything else is a false message, including trying to separate wheat from chaff...Jesus told us not to do that

a person who is called to bring a message to the body does not condemn...even OT prophets ALWAYS offered hope...because that is what God offers

as Jesus said, is there anyone to condemn you? neither do I condemn you...go and sin no more

that is, do not live sin

it is interesting that Jesus offered forgiveness of sin BEFORE His Crucifixion

perhaps He is also the God of the Old Testament as well and is able to offer continuing forgiveness as a witness to His grace
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#3
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#3
It is good to live a life of pureness and to run away from any kind of thing that might cause us to sin sadly I have yet to perfect this skill.
Preaching to not sin is good for correction and guiding others it's only when you step over the line of being sinless that it becomes a false teaching
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#4
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#4
sin does not have dominion over Christians...ANY Christian..
Click to expand...
I believe many are in name only calling themselves a Christian, but not truly one by spiritual rebirth and conversion, being enjoined into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. An example would be these who called Jesus Lord, but He did not know them, as they were also still workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Luke 13:23-27

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#5
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#5
It is important to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life.

 Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is why we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#6
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#6
Grace777x70 said:
It is important to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life.

 Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is why we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
Click to expand...
Of course there is a difference between a noun (sin) and a verb (sinning), but one must also be careful about differentiating a root meaning between these two. The Greek root for the noun and the verb are both the same word (hamartia and hamartano). (Just as in English "sin" and "sinning" have the same root)
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#7
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#7
Blain said:
Preaching to not sin is good for correction and guiding others it's only when you step over the line of being sinless that it becomes a false teaching
Click to expand...
This is what I preach....

Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also make us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace
​
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#8
Jul 3, 2015
60,186
29,488
113
#8
InSpiritInTruth said:
This is what I preach....
Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also make us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace
​
Click to expand...
Yet you still sin. How is that working for you?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
#11
No one here says sin still has dominion over any0one. So who is ISIT preach9ing too? A invisible crowd that is not even here?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
#13
InSpiritInTruth said:
This is what I preach....
Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also make us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace
​
Click to expand...

Ah the sinless one speaketh, one day, when he sees CHrist, I hope he does not preach this to hi9m, Jesus will have NOTHING to do with his self righteousness.

 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#15
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#15
Chester said:
Of course there is a difference between a noun (sin) and a verb (sinning), but one must also be careful about differentiating a root meaning between these two. The Greek root for the noun and the verb are both the same word (hamartia and hamartano). (Just as in English "sin" and "sinning" have the same root)
Click to expand...
Yes...but I am referring to the "law of sin" ( Romans 7:17 and 23 ) as an entity as Vine's Dictionary talks about. The first mention of sin speaks about it as "desiring Cain". Gen. 4:7

There is a difference between sin as an entity that is in our flesh and sinning - as in the act of doing something and Romans chapters 6-8 shows this. Romans 8 is wonderful as it teaches us to walk by the spirit. The body is dead because of sin ( the noun - entity that is in it ) but the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Romans 8:10

The law of sin is still in our flesh which is why we are to walk by the spirit so that we will not fulfill "it's" lusts.

Walk by the flesh and we will have consequences in this life. Take up shooting heroin and this truth will come quickly to us all.

Behavior does matter in this world for various reasons. Here is a great teaching about this.


[video=youtube;yPFZv08ZCoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPFZv08ZCoY&list=PLgneOZ41wdT3dd5IoAJt9pFQ 48cLfEyHC&index=5[/video]
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#16
#16
InSpiritInTruth said:
This is what I preach....
Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also make us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace
​
Click to expand...

Why not just say it simply, you teach sinless perfectionism, it's not like we don't know it already. :rolleyes:
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#17
Jul 3, 2015
60,186
29,488
113
#17
InSpiritInTruth said:
I'm sure they thought the same of Jesus. :)

John 8:46

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Click to expand...
Are you claiming to be sinless? You actually avoided acknowledging the fact that you still sin. Or have you become completely sinless since the last time I witness you getting honest about the issue? If you claim to be without sin you deceive yourself and the Truth is not in you, after all.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#18
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#18
Utah said:
Please answer the question. Yes or no.
Click to expand...
Jeremiah 9:8
Their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait.


Luke 11:54
Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him. :)
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#19
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#19
InSpiritInTruth said:
Jeremiah 9:8
Their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait.


Luke 11:54
Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him. :)
Click to expand...
Please don't be afraid to make a proclamation staying I'm not Christian. It won't discredit your overall discernment regarding other people's faith and you won't lose credibility regarding your theological views. Please answer the question, yes or no. This is a watershed moment where we can come together regarding true understanding.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#20
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#20
Magenta said:
Are you claiming to be sinless? You actually avoided acknowledging the fact that you still sin. Or have you become completely sinless since the last time I witness you getting honest about the issue? If you claim to be without sin you are a liar and the Truth is not in you, after all.
Click to expand...
If people are preaching that they don't sin - it means that they have a very low opinion of what sin really is.

The "sinless perfection in the flesh" doctrine is a very deadly one to young Christians and can upset their faith and walk with the Lord.

This creates the works-based mindset that is based on "works-righteousness" instead of "faith-righteousness" which is by the finished work of Christ only by grace through faith.

The reason why some may not say that they too sin because then this sinless perfection in the flesh thing becomes exposed for what it really is.

Jesus said that one who sins is of the devil - so people that believe this doctrine will have to say that they are of the devil because they too sin. They will be caught in their own loop that they made.

It is absolutely true that sin ( the law of sin ) - as an entity in our flesh shall not have dominion over us because we are under grace - not the law. Romans 6:14

- the law is self-effort in our own flesh which we think creates and maintains our own righteousness by "what we do". This is anti-the gospel of the grace of Christ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.