I think you and P4T are getting a bit muddled about something.
Speaking to someone and about someone are two different things.
There are places where Paul is discussing specifically what I will term very loosely "the Jewish Condition", or in other places "the Israelite condition" or in other places "the Church Condition".
This should not be problematical to understand.
In Romans 3 Paul address those who understand the law specifically, which is completely different "hermeneutically" to talking about them.
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
If I was at a conference of Nuclear physicists and Journalists, I might say:
"Don't you know guys - I am speaking really to the Physicists here - that the quantum refraction of interstellar luminosity in the Helium spectrum according Barr's third Law of microdensity requires telesymmetry in the 4th lunar estepostasy?"
Hey brother,
Thanks for your concern here but frankly it is unwarranted but will attempt to clarify further. There is a deficiency on your part to understanding Paul's purpose and his argumentation, extending from
Romans 1:18, concluding that all have failed, none seek God, none righteous being applicable to all mankind, not simply one ethnic group. Why? Because that is Paul's (really the Holy Spirits) objective in this treatise. Brother, apparently you're concentrating too hard on one passage and aren't looking at the big picture and are restricting it from the entire context.
The Jews accused the Gentiles of not obeying the Law, not knowing God, bragged upon themselves, condemned others, listen to this,
while they failed to do and failed not to do the same things they accused upon all others. This would include all the things detailed by Paul in Romans 3:11ff. This is why Paul is set out to prove they are all in the same state;
"there is no distinction".
Paul proved in
chapter 2 all are, in a sense, under the law, (the Jew by God, the Gentile by nature) by the way. Note this, which has tremendous impact on this argument, Paul speaking to the Jews here;
Romans 2:3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them, and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? The Jews were already condemned in verse 2:1, the things they accuse of others they fail to do themselves, such as the Gentiles being without God, not seeking God, none righteous, it applies to both Jew and Gentile, or better yet, to all of mankind. This is why Paul used what they trusted, what they thought of themselves against them in 3:11ff. This follows suit with Romans 2:1ff.
By time
Romans 3 comes around Paul is set to prove that neither Jew nor Gentile keep it, in attempt to show the Jew they are no different: "
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,". They as well have failed and are under sin too, something they cannot receive while accusing it upon all others.
Paul has already proven the Gentiles were in such a case,
chapter 2,
'doing by nature the things in the law' (2:14) 'having the law written on their hearts' (2:15) &c (
which shows that they knew in their consciences they too have failed to keep this and were in the categorization of Romans 3:11ff) and now is proving the Jews were there as well, something they could not take, after all,
only the Gentiles, according to them failed to seek God.
Paul here dismantles all hope of either Jew or Gentile completing their salvation on their own, as
chapter 2 seems to suggest (and as cults use this chapter to prove works salvation) "
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." This applies to both Jew and Gentile as it follows
chapter 2. The context actually extends from Romans 1:18. Note how Paul brings this verse and subject up again:
"But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) This is why Paul concludes in Romans 3 this:
"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."
As anyone can see,
there is no distinction, where you are certainly making one. The 'nones' and other condemnations (
Romans 3:9-20) apply therefore to both Jew and Gentile, both have failed and are under wrath (
Romans 1:18-3:1ff), there is therefore no hope for either, none can do these things, none have done these things.
The conclusion? Even though the Gentiles try to keep the law in the sense of
Romans 2, they don't, they fail like every other human.
May I suggest a
Martyn-Lloyd Jones app to you? Not only are his messages in Romans wonderful, so too elsewhere his teachings are under-rated and very sound. You may want to listen to him, he is one of the best expositors of the 20th century. In my work I'm blessed and get to listen to him a lot. His series in Romans will serve you well in your continuous study. I hope I've not offended by suggesting, I just wanted to share with you, brother, a blessing that I have found.
