What causes God to hide his face?

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BeyondET

Guest
#301
#301
Ariel82 said:
I understood that many people have different faces and moods, but not sure about your definition of hide.
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Well this is because your stuck in thought of the word Face has only one meaning and this isn't the case at all. Especially when talking about bible scripture.

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to hide, treasure up

ambush (2), authority (1), conceal (1), concealed (2), hid (1), hidden (1), hide (2), keep them secretly (1), kept (1), lurk (1), restrain her restrains (1), saved (1), secret place (1), stealthily watch (1), store (1), stored (5), stores (1), stores away (1), treasure (2), treasured (3), treasures (1).
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#302
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#302
Ariel82 said:
First we have to understand how God related to them back then to analyze if God still related to us the same way today.

Even back then God gave the Gospel message to many of His saints.

You can see it in psalms, Isaiah, the song of moses, etc.
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Yes....the OT contained a shadow and types of the good things to come which was all fulfilled and realized in Christ. We in the New Covenant are now children of God - joined as one spirit with the Lord.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#303
#303
Here's another term for Face but it's not used as Face is in sight or in front.

anyone one on the face of the planet.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#304
#304
The term or concept that God is "hiding His face" means God is allowing you to suffer for a spell.

The why is debatable: chastenment for your sins to produce righteousnes, Letting the fullness of others sins to ripen before they are punished, testing of your faith to produce patience, etc.

Some people say that God doesn't do this anymore. That the way God relates with His people has changed, but I have to disagree. Most of the objections are based on conjure of what they believe the phrase implies, instead of examining how it was used in scripture. God turn His face from the nation of Israel and allowed other nations to conquer them. They were punished until they cried out to God For deliverance. God sent prophets and Judges to deliver them from the hands of their oppressors.

How does that relate to us? We are not Israel, a nation to be conquered. God does not deliver us into the hands of the enemy to be punished. However, God didn't really deliver Israel into the hands of her enemies either. He took His hedge of protection from her. Allowed the demonic forces they worshiped instead of Him have control of their lives. He allowed them to suffer the consequences of their choices.

So what do you think? Does God still hide his face from people today?

Can you tell the difference in your life when God's face is upon you and when it's not?

Have you ever had a hedge of protection around your life and recognize God's grace that kept you from harm even though you deserved punishment?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#305
#305
BeyondET said:
Well this is because your stuck in thought of the word Face has only one meaning and this isn't the case at all. Especially when talking about bible scripture.

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to hide, treasure up

ambush (2), authority (1), conceal (1), concealed (2), hid (1), hidden (1), hide (2), keep them secretly (1), kept (1), lurk (1), restrain her restrains (1), saved (1), secret place (1), stealthily watch (1), store (1), stored (5), stores (1), stores away (1), treasure (2), treasured (3), treasures (1).
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No it's because I am stuck in trying to figure out how God stores up His face or moods.....doesn't make sense and too much like twisting scriptures to make me "feel" good.

Sorry, I don't see how your subsitutions help us understand that psalm better or the message the psalmist is conveying.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#306
#306
Ariel82 said:
The term or concept that God is "hiding His face" means God is allowing you to suffer for a spell.

The why is debatable: chastenment for your sins to produce righteousnes, Letting the fullness of others sins to ripen before they are punished, testing of your faith to produce patience, etc.

Some people say that God doesn't do this anymore. That the way God relates with His people has changed, but I have to disagree. Most of the objections are based on conjure of what they believe the phrase implies, instead of examining how it was used in scripture. God turn His face from the nation of Israel and allowed other nations to conquer them. They were punished until they cried out to God For deliverance. God sent prophets and Judges to deliver them from the hands of their oppressors.

How does that relate to us? We are not Israel, a nation to be conquered. God does not deliver us into the hands of the enemy to be punished. However, God didn't really deliver Israel into the hands of her enemies either. He took His hedge of protection from her. Allowed the demonic forces they worshiped instead of Him have control of their lives. He allowed them to suffer the consequences of their choices.

So what do you think? Does God still hide his face from people today?

Can you tell the difference in your life when God's face is upon you and when it's not?

Have you ever had a hedge of protection around your life and recognize God's grace that kept you from harm even though you deserved punishment?
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I gather you really like that idea of God turning away from people, so be it then have it your way..
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#307
#307
How do we seek God's face?

I would be delighted to discuss that.

But "how do we seek God's wholeness of being"? Sorry too new agey to me. I don't need to know ALL of God when His face alone would overwhelm me. Seek my own wholeness? That takes our focus off of God.

It's just confused me to why the subsitution is needed.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#308
#308
BeyondET said:
I gather you really like that idea of God turning away from people, so be it then have it your way..
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Straw man.

You never even answered a single of my questions but instead seek always to,prove how wrong I am based on a false idea of,what i,have said and believe.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#309
#309
1. So what do you think? Does God still hide his face from people today?

2. Can you tell the difference in your life when God's face is upon you and when it's not?

3. Have you ever had a hedge of protection around your life and recognize God's grace that kept you from harm even though you deserved punishment?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#310
#310
If you answer NO to question one, you might as well skip question 2.

I am really interested in the answers to question 3.

How can you tell if you are being protected by God?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#311
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#311
Ariel82 said:
The term or concept that God is "hiding His face" means God is allowing you to suffer for a spell.

The why is debatable: chastenment for your sins to produce righteousnes, Letting the fullness of others sins to ripen before they are punished, testing of your faith to produce patience, etc.

Some people say that God doesn't do this anymore. That the way God relates with His people has changed, but I have to disagree. Most of the objections are based on conjure of what they believe the phrase implies, instead of examining how it was used in scripture. God turn His face from the nation of Israel and allowed other nations to conquer them. They were punished until they cried out to God For deliverance. God sent prophets and Judges to deliver them from the hands of their oppressors.

How does that relate to us? We are not Israel, a nation to be conquered. God does not deliver us into the hands of the enemy to be punished. However, God didn't really deliver Israel into the hands of her enemies either. He took His hedge of protection from her. Allowed the demonic forces they worshiped instead of Him have control of their lives. He allowed them to suffer the consequences of their choices.

So what do you think? Does God still hide his face from people today?

Can you tell the difference in your life when God's face is upon you and when it's not?

Have you ever had a hedge of protection around your life and recognize God's grace that kept you from harm even though you deserved punishment?
Click to expand...


In my opinion - God never hides His face from the one who is in Christ however we can "perceive" He does for a few reasons.

I would never use that term "God hides His face from us". All of us in Christ that live in this world will suffer tribulation. It's a promise from Jesus...;).


It's not God hiding Himself. We can suffer for many reasons - one because of persecution, another is because of the word of God - the enemy comes immediately to try to take the word from us and Peter and Paul says we can suffer because of our own evil-doing by walking after the flesh.

None of these are from God "hiding His face". We may "perceive" He is because we are not established in the work of Christ as we ought to be. Wrong teaching and sin distorts the truth and how we view God, others and ourselves.

Trials are a time for rejoicing because they will bring forth the kingdom of God that is in us. It is with faith and patience we inherit the promises of God. It is not from "God hiding His face from us."

That term needs to be booted out of our vocabulary IMO. It is so mis-leading and creates a dis-trust in our loving Father. Personally I believe that term can be extremely damaging to young Christians as they are learning to trust in the love and grace of their Lord for them.

Trying to mix OT concepts without filtering it through the finished work of Christ creates a mixture and a religious mess in our un-renewed minds that distorts the nature of God and the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.
 
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HisHolly

Guest
#312
#312
Yep!! Jesus can identify with us and BC of that we are able to boldly approach the Throne
Grace777x70 said:


In my opinion - God never hides His face from the one who is in Christ however we can "perceive" He does for a few reasons.

I would never use that term "God hides His face from us". All of us in Christ that live in this world will suffer tribulation. It's a promise from Jesus...;).


It's not God hiding Himself. We can suffer for many reasons - one because of persecution, another is because of the word of God - the enemy comes immediately to try to take the word from us and Peter and Paul says we can suffer because of our own evil-doing by walking after the flesh.

None of these are from God "hiding His face". We may "perceive" He is because we are not established in the work of Christ as we ought to be. Wrong teaching and sin distorts the truth and how we view God, others and ourselves.

Trials are a time for rejoicing because they will bring forth the kingdom of God that is in us. It is with faith and patience we inherit the promises of God. It is not from "God hiding His face from us."

That term needs to be booted out of our vocabulary IMO. It is so mis-leading and creates a dis-trust in our loving Father. Personally I believe that term can be extremely damaging to young Christians as they are learning to trust in the love and grace of their Lord for them.

Trying to mix OT concepts without filtering it through the finished work of Christ creates a mixture and a religious mess in our un-renewed minds that distorts the nature of God and the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.
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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#313
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#313
Ariel82 said:
1. So what do you think? Does God still hide his face from people today?

2. Can you tell the difference in your life when God's face is upon you and when it's not?

3. Have you ever had a hedge of protection around your life and recognize God's grace that kept you from harm even though you deserved punishment?
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Many times to answer #3. I have seen some die from the same situations. Why is this? Don't know. It is not God with-holding His face from us. God is not a respecter of people. He allows the rain to fall on the just and unjust.

I do know of times where prayer made a difference and brought deliverance. We have authority on this earth and God uses us to pray and bring about His will.

God is never withholding His grace - He is the One who says to come boldly to the throne of grace to find help and grace in the time of need. How could we do that confidently if we thought He was with-holding His favor? It is inconsistent with the whole gospel message of what Christ has done.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#314
Mar 30, 2016
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#314
Ariel82 said:
1. So what do you think? Does God still hide his face from people today?

2. Can you tell the difference in your life when God's face is upon you and when it's not?

3. Have you ever had a hedge of protection around your life and recognize God's grace that kept you from harm even though you deserved punishment?
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We don’t always feel God’s presence but he is still there. I don’t think that he is hiding from us at any time. We just don’t always feel his presence. That is where faith comes in and knowing that he is always with us is the strengthening of our faith. Everyone goes through trials and that is to strengthen us…but even though we don’t feel his presence, I believe that God is right there. I think he draws even closer to us in times of trouble.

Scripture says the Lord is nigh to those of a broken heart and contrite spirit.

And yes sometimes God does sometimes put a hedge of protection around us...Even when we don't feel we deserve it...I thinks this is because he knows at those times that we are too weak to bear trials. God knows what we are able to stand and where we are in life and he will not put on us anymore than we can stand.

As far as protection goes, I think he is always there with us and protecting us no matter what we are facing. We have the perfect insurance plan to live is Christ but to die is gain.
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#315
Oct 24, 2016
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#315
Ariel82 said:
Turn his back and turn His face are two totally different concepts.

The first implies that God is ignoring you.

The second has more to do with God not protecting you from the consequences of your actions.

Not that He isn't going to rescue you from the death penalty.,,more as if you got drunk, thrown in jail and God allows you to stay in jail instead of bailing you out right away to teach you that your actions have consequences. You can't sin and expect God's love and grace to cover you always and never have to suffer for your defiance and disrespect of God and His rules.

It is tied in with God's chastenment.

However I would agree God never turns His back on us or forsake us forever. However, for a time He does turn His face from us if we sin and refuse to admit that we have sinned.
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Hi Ariel,

Maybe that's true, maybe they do mean different things. I'll go through some of the proof texts that you've used. But I can only see them as meaning the same thing at the moment. :) Btw, did you mention you're reading a book about God hiding His face?

The scriptures I have read was when God pronounced judgement on Israel for her sin and He exiled them - punished them as a whole nation.

One thing that came to mind this morning was about the warnings to the 7 churches in revelation. I think he mentioned removing His lamp stand if they didn't repent.

I like this topic because I've never considered God turning His face away from us.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#316
#316
Only book on the subject I have read is the Bible. Have you read the article at the beginning of the thread and that
Bible verse?

"For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer." Isaiah 54:7, 8

Why God Hides His Face From The Righteous - by Pastor Jack Hyles
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#317
#317
Grace 777, We have a failure to communicate. Its like we are talking about two totally difference subjects and your assumptions are too numerous to tackle in a single post.

But we can cover the basics.

1. Yes God will always give mercy and grace to those with a repentant heart. Even in the OT this is true.

2. How did you come to the conclusion that when God "hides His face" he is also "withholding His favor"?

3. Did you read the article or even the Isaiah 54? What are your thoughts on either one of those?
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#318
Oct 24, 2016
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#318
Ariel82 said:
Matthew 14 v.22
And when He had sent the multitudes away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. Now when evening came, He was alone there.

Luke 6v12-13
Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:

****so to answer the question: did Jesus turn His face away from people?

Yes He did, so that He might turn in through prayer towards God.

Doesn't really answer the question: does God hide His face from people Now and is it always a bad thing if He does hide His face?

Especially if the short time of trials and tribulations helps us grow and recognize the sinful parts of us that needs to die?
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If Jesus pulls himself away from a crowd to have alone time, I don't think that would qualify as God hiding his face.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#319
#319
Desertsrose said:

If Jesus pulls himself away from a crowd to have alone time, I don't think that would qualify as God hiding his face.
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No but someone was trying to make the point that we should ask if Jesus hide his face from people (he assumed that Jesus never hid his face) to prove that God didn't hide his face from people....just making the point that you can't assume that because Jesus did hide His face from people. So that point is invalid.

I don't make the illogical jump that God and His Holy Spirit interacts with us the same way Jesus interacted with His disciples.I don't like blurring lines. Though many try to a lot and accuse me of the same crime.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#320
#320
Through out the scriptures I have study the common theme is that God might hide His face for a moment so that people will SEEK His face and that He blesses those who seek His face and shines His light upon them, sending His Holy Spirit to comfort and refresh them.
 
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