Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Just saying the truth....The Pharisees are a prime example of those who mixed works, adherence to the law and faith....Jesus rejected it and condemned them as blind leaders of the blind.....
Be not removed from the simplicity that is found is Christ
Is it not simplistic.....the following....?
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Be not removed from the simplicity that is found is Christ
Is it not simplistic.....the following....?
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It's not just the wolves in sheep's clothing that will not enter heaven and be told that Jesus never knew them, but the many who think they have faith and trust in God for their salvation, but don't. They say they have and do good works, like giving to the poor, because they are a Christian, and that somehow demonstrates that they have faith in God and that they are heaven bound, because they say, 'God lead them to give'. All who think this way are in for a very rude awakening. Your good works are the same as the people who did "many wonderful works" in Jesus' name. That's all they were to God and that's all they are, good or wonderful works that have and require no faith.
Simply living the so called Christian life, such as going to church, singing songs to God, fellowshipping with others, and the like, is not living in faith. "And the just SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." Those things are not of or by faith.
As for never knowing someone, if God can forget your sins, He can forget ever knowing you because of your sins.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It's not just the wolves in sheep's clothing that will not enter heaven and be told that Jesus never knew them, but the many who think they have faith and trust in God for their salvation, but don't. They say they have and do good works, like giving to the poor, because they are a Christian, and that somehow demonstrates that they have faith in God and that they are heaven bound, because they say, 'God lead them to give'. All who think this way are in for a very rude awakening. Your good works are the same as the people who did "many wonderful works" in Jesus' name. That's all they were to God and that's all they are, good or wonderful works that have and require no faith.
Simply living the so called Christian life, such as going to church, singing songs to God, fellowshipping with others, and the like, is not living in faith. "And the just SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." Those things are not of or by faith.
As for never knowing someone, if God can forget your sins, He can forget ever knowing you because of your sins.
E
another flaw of the English language and translations.
Paul said they teach a different gospel (different as in not the same) which is not different (different as it is not another gospel or means of salvation) ie, you can't replace one gospel with the other. and they both get you to heaven, If anyone changes 1 word. it is a different gospel. and whoever teaches, should be accursed.
Paul said they teach a different gospel (different as in not the same) which is not different (different as it is not another gospel or means of salvation) ie, you can't replace one gospel with the other. and they both get you to heaven, If anyone changes 1 word. it is a different gospel. and whoever teaches, should be accursed.
E
Nope. He never said they were Christian. It was THEY who professed they had good works, Not jesus, And jesus response was that he NEVER KNEW THEM.
One thing we can be assured of.. Jesus knows who are his. it is our foundation. If he never knew us, we were NEVER saved period.
2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
Jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM....this is not forgetting somebody or the memory of somebody....this clearly indicates that they were never saved to begin with......and since they were not saved we can rightly conclude that they attempted a different door than Jesus....and their boast is in works and a claim to know Jesus....sounds like most religions that name Christ....a blend of faith and some sort of work(s)!
I agree and a plain example of translational error.....
heteros-->of a different kind
Allos-->of the same kind
Both translated "another"..........more proof of the subtle way Satan works....after all,the Church Of England teaches a works based salvation....and if the KING JIMMY translators would have translated the two words instead of applying "another" to both words it would have contradicted the Anglican false doctrine!
heteros-->of a different kind
Allos-->of the same kind
Both translated "another"..........more proof of the subtle way Satan works....after all,the Church Of England teaches a works based salvation....and if the KING JIMMY translators would have translated the two words instead of applying "another" to both words it would have contradicted the Anglican false doctrine!
Last edited:
The gospel has always been simple, it is about finding God, being purified and forgiven
and walking in obedience with Him.
It has been preached and followed since the time of Jesus.
A new anti-legalism HG version is not suddenly the truth and the past got it all wrong.
That is not how God works. He is God, and with open eyes, a pure heart you will see God.
But if your gospel does not have a loving pure walk with Christ, you have something fundamentally
wrong. The point about Jesus is this holiness and purity through the cross.
Once it becomes just arriving and God does the rest you have missed the point.
But I do not expect you to understand, because the only way you would understand if you were
walking this path, which it appears you are not, so there we stand.
and walking in obedience with Him.
It has been preached and followed since the time of Jesus.
A new anti-legalism HG version is not suddenly the truth and the past got it all wrong.
That is not how God works. He is God, and with open eyes, a pure heart you will see God.
But if your gospel does not have a loving pure walk with Christ, you have something fundamentally
wrong. The point about Jesus is this holiness and purity through the cross.
Once it becomes just arriving and God does the rest you have missed the point.
But I do not expect you to understand, because the only way you would understand if you were
walking this path, which it appears you are not, so there we stand.
Any so-called "gospel" that has a works-based mindset for attaining or maintaining righteousness in it is denying the finished work of Christ - and it is an "another" gospel of a different kind.
Anything that is contrary to the truth that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection only - is "another" gospel.
This D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
The Holy Spirit will transform us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor, 3:17-18. - and we do participate in it with Him.
Anything that is contrary to the truth that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection only - is "another" gospel.
This D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
The Holy Spirit will transform us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor, 3:17-18. - and we do participate in it with Him.
Last edited:
I too agree with you sir. Had any of you understood what I have been saying, you would know that I never said any such things.
Yes, I said salvation is through faith and works, even as Paul, James, and the author of Hebrews said. Which none of you have been able to grasp. As I said, there is more than one kind of work, and the kind you are referring to, does not attain or maintain righteousness, along with anything that is contrary to the truth in Christ's finish work on the cross. Neither does it have to do with self-righteousness. Salvation is not about doing good works, it's about faith in God to do what He said in the bible, or that which is written. I am righteous because of WHO is in me, not because of any goods works that I do. Neither does doing good things PROVE that I am a Christian or that I have faith in God. The works as you and the others understand it, are simply good deeds, and that is it. The same kind that any heathen could do off the street. Many, if not most of your kind of good deeds prove nothing as far as faith goes, because God does not have to work in the situation anymore than He would for an atheist or heathen.
When you start calling things which be not as though they were, BECAUSE you believe it in your heart, as it is written, in spite of all the contrary evidence screaming in your face, then and only then will you begin to understand what faith is and how it works. Then you will start to see the difference between your good works and works of faith. It is the works of faith that justifies, NOT your good works. It is not faith alone either, as James says. What you and the others on this forum call fake or false faith as written in James, is the same kind you all have demonstrated in your personal lives. Only one person gave a good example of applying God's faith in a real situation, and I commended the person. It is refreshing to hear real faith in action.
So no, I do not believe as you say, and never have. Yes, I believe one can lose their salvation based on multiple references in the bible, but that is another subject.
I believe we are saved by grace through faith at the moment we receive Jesus as our personal lord and savior, even as you do. Neither do I believe that I could maintain my salvation by the kind of works, as you understand it. As I said, they are simply morally good deeds, nothing more, as they require NO faith.
Yes, I said salvation is through faith and works, even as Paul, James, and the author of Hebrews said. Which none of you have been able to grasp. As I said, there is more than one kind of work, and the kind you are referring to, does not attain or maintain righteousness, along with anything that is contrary to the truth in Christ's finish work on the cross. Neither does it have to do with self-righteousness. Salvation is not about doing good works, it's about faith in God to do what He said in the bible, or that which is written. I am righteous because of WHO is in me, not because of any goods works that I do. Neither does doing good things PROVE that I am a Christian or that I have faith in God. The works as you and the others understand it, are simply good deeds, and that is it. The same kind that any heathen could do off the street. Many, if not most of your kind of good deeds prove nothing as far as faith goes, because God does not have to work in the situation anymore than He would for an atheist or heathen.
When you start calling things which be not as though they were, BECAUSE you believe it in your heart, as it is written, in spite of all the contrary evidence screaming in your face, then and only then will you begin to understand what faith is and how it works. Then you will start to see the difference between your good works and works of faith. It is the works of faith that justifies, NOT your good works. It is not faith alone either, as James says. What you and the others on this forum call fake or false faith as written in James, is the same kind you all have demonstrated in your personal lives. Only one person gave a good example of applying God's faith in a real situation, and I commended the person. It is refreshing to hear real faith in action.
So no, I do not believe as you say, and never have. Yes, I believe one can lose their salvation based on multiple references in the bible, but that is another subject.
I believe we are saved by grace through faith at the moment we receive Jesus as our personal lord and savior, even as you do. Neither do I believe that I could maintain my salvation by the kind of works, as you understand it. As I said, they are simply morally good deeds, nothing more, as they require NO faith.
I really haven't read any of your posts. I was just making a general statement when someone posted about "another gospel".
I'm glad to see that you believe everything we have in Christ comes by grace through faith alone and that faith if real will by the very life of Christ in it - will produce good works by the Holy Spirit within us.
I firmly believe too in saying what God says is true about a situation despite the circumstances screaming at you the very opposite.
I believe we can only access the grace of God through faith. I also know that we can't "faith in" what grace has not already provided in the finished work of Christ.
I'm glad to see that you believe everything we have in Christ comes by grace through faith alone and that faith if real will by the very life of Christ in it - will produce good works by the Holy Spirit within us.
I firmly believe too in saying what God says is true about a situation despite the circumstances screaming at you the very opposite.
I believe we can only access the grace of God through faith. I also know that we can't "faith in" what grace has not already provided in the finished work of Christ.
A new creation, born from on High, a seed planted in our hearts, rooted and grounded in God,
the law of Christ written on our hearts.
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 Cor 9:21
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1 Cor 2:2
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:20
In righteousness, purity, holiness we are born, so let us not let our hearts defile us
but confess our sins before the King and receive His healing and cleansing.
If we all walk in His ways and in obedience to His commands and let love rule our hearts
then surely we will be living sacrifices to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ.
Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:1
If brothers and sisters you can come with me before our King as His word
leads us, amen, let us dwell and have fellowship in His Holy Spirit.
the law of Christ written on our hearts.
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 Cor 9:21
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1 Cor 2:2
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:20
In righteousness, purity, holiness we are born, so let us not let our hearts defile us
but confess our sins before the King and receive His healing and cleansing.
If we all walk in His ways and in obedience to His commands and let love rule our hearts
then surely we will be living sacrifices to our Lord and King, Jesus Christ.
Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:1
If brothers and sisters you can come with me before our King as His word
leads us, amen, let us dwell and have fellowship in His Holy Spirit.