Did Christ do enough to save us?

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lets face it, and the op just admitted it.

He can not live up to the standard he demands others to live in.

He calls it stumbling, what a way to excuse your own sin.. Wow. just wow.

He does not understand, the very fact that we do still sin (call it stumble or whatever) is the very reason we need the cross..

if the cross is not enough, we are all doomed. Christ did not say, I did my part, now you do yours, He said it is finished, period.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
lets face it, and the op just admitted it.

He can not live up to the standard he demands others to live in.

He calls it stumbling, what a way to excuse your own sin.. Wow. just wow.

He does not understand, the very fact that we do still sin (call it stumble or whatever) is the very reason we need the cross..

if the cross is not enough, we are all doomed. Christ did not say, I did my part, now you do yours, He said it is finished, period.
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Right. He raked you through the coals, but then turns around and gives himself a free pass for his own sin. Jesus reserved His harshest words for such.
 
Yes, He certainly did but those who espouse "works" salvation think it depends on Christ + thier behavior.
 
FreeNChrist said:
Right. He raked you through the coals, but then turns around and gives himself a free pass for his own sin. Jesus reserved His harshest words for such.
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but remember, his sins are just oopsies.. so its ok..
 
For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.
James 3:2

There is an ethic, that is simple, walk with Jesus in His ways.
You can walk without stumbling but if you do, you can get right again with the Lord.

Now so many find this idea hard, where the focus is on Jesus and following, not on
compromise and giving up. It makes me wonder have they seen the cross and know
its power at all?
 
What makes me remember is it is all there in scripture.

But closed hearts will never see, blind minds will always change.
 
and here we have it.

It is easy, But we still stumble. (he admits he still stumbles)

so it must not be so easy, or else we would not stumble. and we would be perfect (that's Gods standard)

which means everyone is in the same boat. We all sin and fall short of Gods glory (perfection)

The result? we all need christ Christ work on the cross is sufficient,,
 
PeterJens said:
What makes me remember is it is all there in scripture.

But closed hearts will never see, blind minds will always change.
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we agree 100 %, now read this to yourself, beause it is just as applicable to you as it is for everyone.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
and here we have it.

It is easy, But we still stumble. (he admits he still stumbles)

so it must not be so easy, or else we would not stumble. and we would be perfect (that's Gods standard)

which means everyone is in the same boat. We all sin and fall short of Gods glory (perfection)

The result? we all need christ Christ work on the cross is sufficient,,
Click to expand...

That's exactly it, we are all in the same boat. None of us are any better, or any worse, than any other because we have all sinned and we have all fallen short of the glory of God……AND, we have all been justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (Romans 3:23-24)
 
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Love and righteousness, these are our heart beat.
Let us press on towards the goal.

I think I get the idea. If a believer stumbles it means that righteousness and
purity are not the walk, because it is impossible.

This is the mindset of a legalist. Walking with God is about faith and relationship,
more than the perfection of the walk. When Peter failed, Jesus was there to
catch him.

If you miss the walk completely you have not found Christ or His heart at all.
It has never been about perfection, but about walking towards the goal,
walking in love, being born from on high, and growing in grace.

No athlete is able to run perfectly from the start, it takes training, called
discipleship.
 
There is a strange gap, between legalistic obedience, and walking with the Lord.

Jesus says, "My yoke is easy, my burden is light"
Matt 11:30

Now people have used the word sin in the general but not in the particular.
A person driven by a heart closed and sinful, desiring many things but not ordered,
cleansed and redeemed is never going to follow Christ.

But a person with an open heart, who knows their failure and the promises of Christ
has a realistic chance of a real walk. Being born again is laying a new foundation in
our hearts, a new perspective, a new loyalty, a new king.

Now the old man, its habits and attitudes are still there but can be refashioned and turned
to obedience to the Spirit.

So much relies on obedience finding resistance, working it through, seeing Gods heart and
walking in it. Sin or lack of it is more the measure of progress and renewal.

Jesus talked about the heart and purification within. James the control of the tongue.
Paul our thought life. John our loving others and walking in obedience to Christ.

And if we fall, we have confessing and repentance, getting thing right again and continuing
the walk. And our goal in maturity is perfection, love made perfect in us, holy, pure
people of God.

Now I never expected people to understand or not, or to have such opposition to the key
principles of walking with Jesus. And the opposition is most strongest from those who
oppose the work of Christ perfecting us through any and every means.

And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
2 Cor 3:18

What surprises me is how Paul declares us already Holy, the chosen people of God.
And this is such blasphemy to certain groups.

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Col 3:5

Sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
Mark 7:21-22

Is it really so hard to not be sexual immoral, impure, sexually passionate, have evil desires and
not covet other peoples things?

How is it that daily people say the fail, for decades yet they say they know Christ?
They do not have the fruit of repentance, but rather false teaching.

So please tell me of the sins that you find so hard to conquer in Christ that justifies
the idea no one can walk in righteousness as Christ did?

If you cannot do this, then surely people are being soft and following a lie of the enemy
to deprive themselves of walking openly with our King.
 
FreeNChrist said:
Right. He raked you through the coals, but then turns around and gives himself a free pass for his own sin. Jesus reserved His harshest words for such.
Click to expand...

This is such rail track legalistic thinking, it has nothing to do with Christ.
God is interested in one thing, the intent of your heart, as expressed through your
behaviour. Words matter, but only when connected with actions.

I will get you a birthday present, yet when one does not appear, it was a lie.
So though the intention was there when spoken, only delivery proves its reality.

I have seen many sunday believers. or praise believers, a set environment creates
a learnt behaviour. Outside this you could not tell they had any faith at all.

I have looked for a way of expressing this, and now open heart is the key.
If your heart is closed, but other things drive you to seek a faith, you will get something,
like a new skin, but it will not help you. Only real heart engineering, becoming a new
creation, born again, starting from scratch, is the only way. Everything is wrong, distorted,
bent out of shape. built on the wrong foundation.

If you do not know what I am talking about, then you know you have a lot of work to do
before you see reality in your life.
 
PeterJens said:
This is such rail track legalistic thinking, it has nothing to do with Christ.
God is interested in one thing, the intent of your heart, as expressed through your
behaviour. Words matter, but only when connected with actions.

I will get you a birthday present, yet when one does not appear, it was a lie.
So though the intention was there when spoken, only delivery proves its reality.

I have seen many sunday believers. or praise believers, a set environment creates
a learnt behaviour. Outside this you could not tell they had any faith at all.

I have looked for a way of expressing this, and now open heart is the key.
If your heart is closed, but other things drive you to seek a faith, you will get something,
like a new skin, but it will not help you. Only real heart engineering, becoming a new
creation, born again, starting from scratch, is the only way. Everything is wrong, distorted,
bent out of shape. built on the wrong foundation.

If you do not know what I am talking about, then you know you have a lot of work to do
before you see reality in your life.
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Right it has nothing to do with Christ and everything to do with you and your hypocrisy. We all know how highly you think of yourself, but here’s what God has to say about you and what you are doing;

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.” Romans 2:1


 
FreeNChrist said:
Right it has nothing to do with Christ and everything to do with you and your hypocrisy. We all know how highly you think of yourself, but here’s what God has to say about you and what you are doing;

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.” Romans 2:1
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The spirit of your sharing is to say we are not called to follow Christ but to fake it.
Nothing actually matters, just do what the leaders of the movement tell you and God
will be pleased. This is antinomianism, or walking without focus on Christ or meaning.

You believe I am being judgemental, but the truth is Christ either works in our hearts
or we do not know Him. This is always a warning, and I have found those who kick
against this most are those who do not accept this reality.

This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35
 
blue_ladybug said:
Still blathering on, I see.. *sigh*
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blue - I thought you believed in being spoken to in your heart?

Why are you being so blue today?
I have to say though one can aspire to sort out some emotional things of the heart,
some seem intractable. But for most a hard heart leads to unbelief and rebellion.
 
The man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
2 Thess 2:3-4

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
2 Thess 2:9-12

Once the law of Christ is ignored and only spiritual works matter, the stage will be set
for the man of lawlessness because once he displays his authority, people will flock to
him. You can read the preparation of this situation in the theology presented here, failure,
no reference points, overthrowing scripture, ignoring authority, and looking for signs and
wonders above the truth.
 
I didn't know this thread existed until just now, and I have to say I'm glad I was sitting down when I read the OP otherwise I would have passed out and spilled my beer.
 
Utah said:
I didn't know this thread existed until just now, and I have to say I'm glad I was sitting down when I read the OP otherwise I would have passed out and spilled my beer.
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I offered to make it a sticky so everyone would know what a certain person thinks, and there would be no more question.
 
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