The Lakewood Church
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S
I don't see what you see. What I do see, is you thinking you have the keys to heaven. You don't.
At this point, since it seems to be a buzz word for you, please describe sound doctrine.
Where is the love for the heart and soul of the sinner living a sinful lifestyle? That would be the one beating in the chest of Jesus. The rest of us are just facsimiles and the ones making the most noise are the ones who still don't have decent copy drawn up.
Will there be different lines at the gates of heaven? will we have the "Lord Lord I did miracles in your name line?" and the "I corrected everyone preaching different than I do Jesus line?"
My head spins when I take a look at what is 'out there' and every one thinking they are the way, the truth and the life.
I bet there will be Jews and Mormons in heaven and real good Christians kept out of heaven. Know why? For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
Romans 2:14
Even the heavens declare the glory of God while Christians besmirch and attack anyone they perceive as not fitting into their idea of God.
Cute? Sure he's good looking but he is not my type if you are trying to say women watch him cause he is good looking.
I just love all the personal attention you are handing out to everyone but no thank you. I already have a Shepherd
S
Yes everyone is going to hell. Out of God's presence for sure.
Except for Jesus. He has made a way for us to be with God.
Apparently there are many ticket checkers though. You know, the ones who make that little clip in your ticket or stamp your hand?
God's little helpers. I think it's actually less about loving people holding the ticket than it is about making sure they form the lines and listen up when they blow their whistles and begin every speech with words straight from the throne room that they were given by God Himself
If you disobey them, you are disobeying God.
S
You need a lawyer Allen. Wait. You already have one.
As a member of the jury, I can tell you I have personally used this lawyer and He pleads my case on a continuing basis.
I understand He has never lost a case even when the prosecution waves huge legal pads around, underlined and dog-eared from heavy usage and years of practice.
I have been advised not to plead my case as anything I say can and will be used against me. Instead, I am told to call on Jesus and plead His righteousness over everything the accuser says I did. That settles it every....single....time
Here is the conclusion from Joel Ostend's sermon called "I am."
"They may not all be true right now, but as you continue tospeak them, they will become a reality.
“I am blessed. I am prosperous. I am successful.”
“I am victorious. I am talented. I am creative.”
“I am wise. I am healthy. I am in shape.”
“I am energetic. I am happy. I am positive.”
“I am passionate. I am strong. I am confident.”
“I am secure. I am beautiful. I am attractive.”
“I am valuable. I am free. I am redeemed.”
“I am forgiven. I am anointed. I am accepted.”
“I am approved. I am prepared. I am qualified.”
“I am motivated. I am focused. I am disciplined.”
“I am determined. I am patient. I am kind.”
“I am generous. I am excellent. I am equipped.”
“I am empowered. I am well able.”
“I am a child of the Most High God.”
https://www.joelosteen.com/Downloadables/LandingPages/PowerOfIAm/The Power Of I Am_Chapter 1.pdf
I was positively horrified reading this sermon. It was the worst example of preaching I have literally ever heard or read.
First - he used the Bible about three times - each time eisegetically. Meaning, he pulled a single verse or half a verse from varied places in the OT and NT out of context, and used them to prop up his theories. There was no attempt to look at the verse in context, to see what God was saying.
No exegetical preaching at all. I am quite sure Joel probably has no idea what exegetical preaching even means.
This is a charlatan, no doubt about it. Just look at those "positive confessions.". The way the sermon unfolds, that "I AM" the title, is actually blasphemy. Joel is saying that if we use the sacred name of God, as he does in the conclusion, that all those "I AM's" will eventually become real in our lives.
I don't even want to debate the nonsense of the Word Faith movement, and this ridiculous and unproven "name it and claim it' which was the content of this sermon. Instead, I want to talk about the whole premise of using the sacred name of God - YHWH, which the Jews would not even use, and using it to apply to us - not to glorify God.
Just appalling. And shame on all of those who listen to this kind of lite, trite sermons, and somehow think they are being fed. It breaks my heart to see JO's advocates in this thread, who are being deceived in the worst way possible.
I know what good preaching is, and JO is NOT a good preacher. Preaching means taking the Word of God, and carefully learning what a PASSAGE is saying. Not half a verse, or a verse! It means looking at the history, the context, and what God was saying to his people in the passage, and what we can take home from it today.
Its is NEVER taking a fancy idea that is not Bible based, nor even inspired, and throwing a few verses in to make it seem like it is a sermon. Ostend's preaching has nothing to do with the Bible, it has to do with the worst heresy the 20th and 21st centuries have encountered, and that is the Word Faith movement. It seems to me like a while back, we had a big discussion in the BDF I believe I even started a thread on it, but no one moved an inch. That was when I decided to give up basically on CC.
Well, except for ministry. So, why is this topic in the family forum, anyway??
"They may not all be true right now, but as you continue tospeak them, they will become a reality.
“I am blessed. I am prosperous. I am successful.”
“I am victorious. I am talented. I am creative.”
“I am wise. I am healthy. I am in shape.”
“I am energetic. I am happy. I am positive.”
“I am passionate. I am strong. I am confident.”
“I am secure. I am beautiful. I am attractive.”
“I am valuable. I am free. I am redeemed.”
“I am forgiven. I am anointed. I am accepted.”
“I am approved. I am prepared. I am qualified.”
“I am motivated. I am focused. I am disciplined.”
“I am determined. I am patient. I am kind.”
“I am generous. I am excellent. I am equipped.”
“I am empowered. I am well able.”
“I am a child of the Most High God.”
https://www.joelosteen.com/Downloadables/LandingPages/PowerOfIAm/The Power Of I Am_Chapter 1.pdf
I was positively horrified reading this sermon. It was the worst example of preaching I have literally ever heard or read.
First - he used the Bible about three times - each time eisegetically. Meaning, he pulled a single verse or half a verse from varied places in the OT and NT out of context, and used them to prop up his theories. There was no attempt to look at the verse in context, to see what God was saying.
No exegetical preaching at all. I am quite sure Joel probably has no idea what exegetical preaching even means.
This is a charlatan, no doubt about it. Just look at those "positive confessions.". The way the sermon unfolds, that "I AM" the title, is actually blasphemy. Joel is saying that if we use the sacred name of God, as he does in the conclusion, that all those "I AM's" will eventually become real in our lives.
I don't even want to debate the nonsense of the Word Faith movement, and this ridiculous and unproven "name it and claim it' which was the content of this sermon. Instead, I want to talk about the whole premise of using the sacred name of God - YHWH, which the Jews would not even use, and using it to apply to us - not to glorify God.
Just appalling. And shame on all of those who listen to this kind of lite, trite sermons, and somehow think they are being fed. It breaks my heart to see JO's advocates in this thread, who are being deceived in the worst way possible.
I know what good preaching is, and JO is NOT a good preacher. Preaching means taking the Word of God, and carefully learning what a PASSAGE is saying. Not half a verse, or a verse! It means looking at the history, the context, and what God was saying to his people in the passage, and what we can take home from it today.
Its is NEVER taking a fancy idea that is not Bible based, nor even inspired, and throwing a few verses in to make it seem like it is a sermon. Ostend's preaching has nothing to do with the Bible, it has to do with the worst heresy the 20th and 21st centuries have encountered, and that is the Word Faith movement. It seems to me like a while back, we had a big discussion in the BDF I believe I even started a thread on it, but no one moved an inch. That was when I decided to give up basically on CC.
Well, except for ministry. So, why is this topic in the family forum, anyway??
Here is a lovely definition of what preaching is, and what it does, which I found on-line.
"A definition of preaching
Preaching is the proclamation of the word of God to men by men under assignment from God. It is the ordained means for the transmission of the word of God to a lost world; it serves also as an official means of grace for the building up and strengthening of the church of Christ.
Preaching is truth through personality; it may be largely didactic (to teach), or else to lead to faith (to convict and convince) and to motivate (leading to obedience and godly action). Preaching is truth on fire, radically different from a secular lecture or talk; through it the power of God is revealed unto the salvation of souls.
Through preaching men are fed with godly doctrine that leads to holiness; they are exhorted to seek God and his saving grace through Jesus Christ and His cross; they are rebuked because of error and sin; they are encouraged by the faithfulness of God presented to them in the covenant of grace.
Preaching is essential, a sine qua non for the church; without it the people of God will languish. Where true biblical, systematic and expository preaching is present the church will thrive.
A definition of preaching
(By the way, the "to men, by men" in the first line, I believe was the old fashioned usage of gender, in which the male included the female. Otherwise, women would never get to hear preaching!)
"A definition of preaching
Preaching is the proclamation of the word of God to men by men under assignment from God. It is the ordained means for the transmission of the word of God to a lost world; it serves also as an official means of grace for the building up and strengthening of the church of Christ.
Preaching is truth through personality; it may be largely didactic (to teach), or else to lead to faith (to convict and convince) and to motivate (leading to obedience and godly action). Preaching is truth on fire, radically different from a secular lecture or talk; through it the power of God is revealed unto the salvation of souls.
Through preaching men are fed with godly doctrine that leads to holiness; they are exhorted to seek God and his saving grace through Jesus Christ and His cross; they are rebuked because of error and sin; they are encouraged by the faithfulness of God presented to them in the covenant of grace.
Preaching is essential, a sine qua non for the church; without it the people of God will languish. Where true biblical, systematic and expository preaching is present the church will thrive.
A definition of preaching
(By the way, the "to men, by men" in the first line, I believe was the old fashioned usage of gender, in which the male included the female. Otherwise, women would never get to hear preaching!)
Joel Osteen is an encourager to the body of Christ and his ministry the Lord has used to help thousands out of their depression and to have hope in God.
Exhorting/encouraging others to believe and hope in God is a ministry gift. Romans 12:8. There are many people out there that have been beaten down by the enemy and life in general that need hope and encouragement that God is for them and that He will help them.
Some get mad at others because they believe the foul demonic belief that God makes them sick to "teach" them something and so they get offended when they hear others say that God is a good God and He wants you well and He loves you like any good Father would.
Then we have those that want to tear down the work of God because they think he doesn't preach like they would. It's sickening to watch this foul behavior being done amongst us because someone has a different type of ministry then some one else. Their malice towards others is defiling to the body of Christ.
Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Exhorting/encouraging others to believe and hope in God is a ministry gift. Romans 12:8. There are many people out there that have been beaten down by the enemy and life in general that need hope and encouragement that God is for them and that He will help them.
Some get mad at others because they believe the foul demonic belief that God makes them sick to "teach" them something and so they get offended when they hear others say that God is a good God and He wants you well and He loves you like any good Father would.
Then we have those that want to tear down the work of God because they think he doesn't preach like they would. It's sickening to watch this foul behavior being done amongst us because someone has a different type of ministry then some one else. Their malice towards others is defiling to the body of Christ.
Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Dear desertrose, If I wanted to start a thread about Joel Osteen, I would not have made his church, the Lakewood church of Houston, the center of my OP.
If you can't discuss the OP, then you are derailing my thread,
If you want to bad mouth a child of God, then start your own bad mouth thread and we'll see what comes of it.
If you can't discuss the OP, then you are derailing my thread,
If you want to bad mouth a child of God, then start your own bad mouth thread and we'll see what comes of it.
Just read this full Chapter of pure encouraging False Preaching. Not once does he even mention Hell. Shameful! Never does he say you must come to God through Jesus. Disgusting!
Yet many of us have let ourselves be duped into actually listening to this guy. We should be ashamed of ourselves...... especially as much as we go around quoting several of the verses here. (Out of context, I might add.)
Philippians 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Yet many of us have let ourselves be duped into actually listening to this guy. We should be ashamed of ourselves...... especially as much as we go around quoting several of the verses here. (Out of context, I might add.)
Philippians 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
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This is great edification of the church.
No mention of hell, no mention that we can lose our salvation, nothing negative at all.
The Apostle Paul builds up the church by showing the good they do and should keep doing, and praising God for it.
We all need this so much.
There is too much beating up each other, and not enough love.
Those who bad mouth others should be willing to put their own lives on display so we can compare them with those they are criticizing.
Hiding one's life and identity makes me wonder what you are hiding and why?
Then how can I take what you say seriously.
No mention of hell, no mention that we can lose our salvation, nothing negative at all.
The Apostle Paul builds up the church by showing the good they do and should keep doing, and praising God for it.
We all need this so much.
There is too much beating up each other, and not enough love.
Those who bad mouth others should be willing to put their own lives on display so we can compare them with those they are criticizing.
Hiding one's life and identity makes me wonder what you are hiding and why?
Then how can I take what you say seriously.
S
no
the reason the church is just about useless, is because they removed the Holy Spirit and most churches do what they do in the flesh
the reason Osteen's church is packed is because rich people, poor people and everyone in between are hurting and they are up to here with being told how they have to live and then come to find out the one who told them how to live has run off with the organist or raped 17 and a half women or maybe had a homosexual relationship that is ongoing
people attack others to provide a sanctimonious feel good relationship with themselves
if it wouldn't be Joel Osteen it would be someone else
the truth is, the church is gob smacked full of hypocrites and in many cases, none bigger than the person up front
Yes. My post was deliberately meant to graphically demonstrate that when we only know a little bit about a person, it is not the best thing to so dogmatically judge them. And no one here seems willing to do as you suggested, and start listening to, or watching, at least a half dozen of his full-length sermons.
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