RE: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

The Lord explained marriage and sex as He created it in the first of Genesis. He made woman of a part of man, then they united and became as one. It wasn't to have an additional half stuck on. Or two halves of the same trying to come together as one as in a homosexual union.

Not to state the obvious, but Polygamy is not the same thing as homosexuality The latter is forbidden, the former is not.

There are many reports in scripture of people ignoring this truth, even David did. But there is no place in scripture saying God wanted them to ignore His truth, but scripture reports the grief it caused to ignore Him. David died a broken old man, and his first baby with Bathsheba died.

David was not a homosexual, although there are many homosexuals who try to convince people that he was.

Scripture tells it like it is, it reports the sins of the people it speaks of. Translators of the original Hebrew always tried to make the original frank language about sex sound better, but there is a huge difference between reporting the truth of what people did and reporting how God created our world to operate for our joy and abundance.

Scripture never minces words when it comes to sin. Sinful behavior is often called abomination, detestable, wickedness, etc. None of these words are ever used of any one who practiced polygamy.

 

[Galatea]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

If you think polygamy is such a great idea, what about a woman desiring to have multiple husbands? What if your wife announces to you that she has found a new guy- a younger model maybe, and wants to bring him into the marriage? How does this scenario strike you? Or is polygamy only for men and not for women?

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Well it has somewhat to do with polygamy. Nathan's parable of the man with many sheep taking from the man that has only one. The punishment that God would rise up troubles within David's own house. The strife between Amnon and Absalom. The strife between Absalom and David. It is quite a revealing a episode really.

It has NOTHING to do with polygamy. It was a rebellious son who saw his father's hypocrisy and failure to take appropriate action. This would have occurred even if David was widowed, because it was God's punishment for taking another man's wife and having him put to death.

True it did have to do with Abimelech's desire to rule, but then it has to do with Gideon's polygamy as well as he went to his house of his mother's father to make his claim. They were inclined to follow him because he was their brother, but he wanted more it seems.

Again, if Gideon, had been widowed, the same situation could have and no doubt would have originated, because mankind has a fallen, sinful nature.

Well it doesn't always mean preferential treatment, but that seems to be the most common problem. There are others though; confusion, wrath, dishonor, etc. Rehoboam wanted Abijah to be heir because he favored his mother above his wives. Esau was hated because he dishonored his parents and made Rebekkah fret by marrying Heth's daughters and he never got that favor back for marrying Ishmael's daughters. Lamech of House Cain, was prideful and vain demanding his wives to hear his boast about the man he had slain. Rachel was loved but Leah was hated. Hannah's adversary Penninah provoked her. It goes on and on.

How many examples have I already cited, where none of those things you mentioned is recorded in Scripture? I have already pointed out. Favoritism was the reason Rachel and Hannah were barren.

Heh, we're really right back to where we were before lol.

Sad to hear that. I really don't have time to repeat myself over and over.

No I am not alluding to Ephesians, though that's not a bad thought either. Indeed the Bride is New Jerusalem. The patient Christ waits for his Bride, in whom are all his children. Waiting for the day to be with her and only her. He will dwell in her with all his children and be happy forever. Their marriage consummated in an eternal day that will never end.

Well, then you cannot argue that Christ is the servant of the New Jerusalem. If you were using the Ephessians 5, and if it were referring to the church as the bride of Christ, you would have made your point.

No, because sleeping around is pretty much polygamy. From my virgin stand point all of you that have had sex with more than one mate are polyamorists. Now I don't dislike you all because of that, most of your generation and my generation are polyamorists. I can't deny though the extreme hurt and destruction it has caused to society and even yourselves though because I see it all the time with my own eyes. I f you will not be able to bear seeing it in society in front of you, it's an unorthodox suggestion, but watch some Jerry Springer and watch how this coin is turned around and the common patterns of this situation come up over and over.

Sleeping around is NOT the same thing as polygamy. In Polygamy, you are MARRIED to the women that you have sexual relations with. There is a TREMENDOUS difference between sleeping with one woman and abandoning her, and maintaining the life-long commitment Christ commanded husbands to follow through with. I myself, have only had relations with one woman. I am against polyamory and polyandry, from a Biblical perspective, although from a legal perspective polyandry gets dicey.

Yea but there is many that are. Even outside the Bible right in today's time the pain it has caused my brethren is terrible. Why do the feminists hate men? Why do the Millennials abhor their fathers?

Nope. They are not.

Well I don't mean that you are a proponent of saying every man should be a polygamist, you just seem to me like you support polygamy. No, I would not agree that golygamy is a gift from God, nor do I think being single is a gift either. The gift to the male virgins being forced by the world to remain single is the first resurrection and being allowed to judge the world for 1,000 years.

OK, you don't want to think of it as a gift., Think of it more as a God given ability.

I think polygamy is selfish. A man is given a gift of having one wife, his one companion to love him and him to pour his love into her, but the polygamist says it was not good enough? I mean what is the polygamist going to tell the single man, that he is giving him a gift of being single because the polygamist has slept with all the women and defiled them? Truly, the single man will resent him for that saying and curse the polygamist's entire generation and the single man will lament his own bastard generation and even his own life.

You are entitled to your own judgmental opinion, but you will have to answer to God for it. If a man is not worthy of being married, why should the women be stuck with the "leftovers"? There is not a one-to-one correlation between women who desire marriage, and men willing to get married.

 

[Blik]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Not to state the obvious, but Polygamy is not the same thing as homosexuality The latter is forbidden, the former is not.

David was not a homosexual, although there are many homosexuals who try to convince people that he was.

Scripture never minces words when it comes to sin. Sinful behavior is often called abomination, detestable, wickedness, etc. None of these words are ever used of any one who practiced polygamy.

I am speaking about the realities of God's creation. Marriage and sex is a big part of it.

God created a man and a woman to make a whole. We know that because Adam was a whole, then a part of him was used to create a woman. Coming together makes them one whole. That is it, period.

You can go on to say more than two halves makes something that isn't one whole, or that two of the same things like woman and woman or man and man can't make a whole as it is like trying to make a half apple and a half orange into one apple or orange.

Whether God told us in scripture "polygamy is a sin" or not does not change the way God created our world. You can't change it any more than you can change a mountain into a lake. People can live against how creation was made for us to live, but when this is done it is a distortion.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

If you think polygamy is such a great idea, what about a woman desiring to have multiple husbands? What if your wife announces to you that she has found a new guy- a younger model maybe, and wants to bring him into the marriage? How does this scenario strike you? Or is polygamy only for men and not for women?

I don't know that polygyny is necessarily a great idea, it certainly is not for everyone, but I do believe that polyandry is a bad idea, and this is why God prohibited it. if my wife were to have another man, it could mean the end of our marriage, but she has a good thing, and I don't see that happening. Polygyny, is what we find examples of in Scripture, and for which there is no prohibition. I know that seems unfair, but men != women; that is just a biological fact. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where God intends for everything to be fair; just for us to live in accordance to His will.

I hope that answers your questions.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I am speaking about the realities of God's creation. Marriage and sex is a big part of it.

God created a man and a woman to make a whole. We know that because Adam was a whole, then a part of him was used to create a woman. Coming together makes them one whole. That is it, period.

You can go on to say more than two halves makes something that isn't one whole, or that two of the same things like woman and woman or man and man can't make a whole as it is like trying to make a half apple and a half orange into one apple or orange.

I am having trouble following you. Where did you get the idea that there is any "Half" of anybody? There is only unity. Marriage is intended to last a lifetime.

Whether God told us in scripture "polygamy is a sin" or not does not change the way God created our world. You can't change it any more than you can change a mountain into a lake. People can live against how creation was made for us to live, but when this is done it is a distortion.

I am not changing anything. I am not the one adding to God's Word.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I think polygamy is selfish. A man is given a gift of having one wife, his one companion to love him and him to pour his love into her, but the polygamist says it was not good enough? I mean what is the polygamist going to tell the single man, that he is giving him a gift of being single because the polygamist has slept with all the women and defiled them? Truly, the single man will resent him for that saying and curse the polygamist's entire generation and the single man will lament his own bastard generation and even his own life.

I wanted to follow up on this. A polygamist is not defiling his wives. Heb 13:4 tells us that the marriage bed is undefiled. Backtracking a bit, there are indeed men for whom being single is indeed a gift, and I have gotten to know many of them. That does not mean that every man that is single, has the gift of singleness. I did not meet my wife until I was 28. Until that point, I had no luck with women. I froze up every time I was around the woman I fancied. I didn't have that problem with my wife, because she was overseas, so it worked out. I wish you the best of luck, and would be more than happy to give you pointers, if you think you have met a woman that you would like to be your future wife.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

My suggestion is to become a Fundamentalist Mormon, or perhaps a Muslim in a foreign country so you can follow your lusts. Oh right, because polygamy is illegal in the USA and Canada. Even the Mormons aren't allowed more than one wife, except in the weirdo break away sects. We have one of those in BC, and they were just convicted of polygamy and child rape and child abduction across a border. I'm sure the same thing happens all the time in the US with people who break the law. You do believe one should obey the law, right?

One more thing I think needs to be said. Never suggest to anyone that they should become a member of a false religion, regardless of whether you agree with their positions! Believers in Christ should be pointing people towards the cross, and not towards some religion that teaches that humans can achieve God-hood or that God does not even have a Son!

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I read Psalms 16:11 and fail to see how eternal pleasures and joy in the presence of the Lord supports satisfying your flesh. If you understand how the the body and brain work you would see how controlling your serotonin and dopamine effect your Christian walk. Believe what you want, I really don't care if you have fifty wives and can justify them all with Old Testament forefathers. My point is that the New Covenant isn't the Old Covenant. You can't put new wine in old wineskins. Unless God has called you to be a breeder for His purposes, serving Him will become more difficult with every woman you cleave to.

You won't find anything about dopamine or serotonin in the Bible, but it does indeed talk about pleasure! As a Protestant, I do not adhere to the false doctrine of Asceticism.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Oh my goodness, I am sorry about my last statement. I was talking about your great grandmother and great grandfather not your grandfather. I didn't read all of you're post and didn't even see the part about your grandfather committing suicide. So I really am sorry about what I said.

However, I still don't agree that polygamy would have solved the problem. But I really am sorry.

Apology accepted. I understand that this concept is hard to grasp. My point is that my grandfather and great grand-father did not engage in polygamy because of this ridiculous prohibition against it. If Roman values had not inculcated Christianity the way it has, and we all know how the Romans practiced monogamy FTM, my grandmother and great-grandmother would never have objected to a second or third wife. I realize it is hard to think outside the norms of the society you are raised in, but in cultures where polygamy is practiced, there is simply no objection raised.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

No Bible question is a wrong question.

Polygamy is wrong, it is not from God. Everyone sins, even the patriarchs. But God created one man and one woman- that is holy. And to prove that, the qualifications for elders include having one wife. Technically every Christian should have the qualifications of an elder, but an elder MUST have them to qualify for eldership. Same with divorce- Jesus said it was tolerated in the Old Testament because your heart were hard, but you must not divorce except if your spouse sexually cheats on you.

You state Polygamy is wrong, but offer no Biblical argument against it. The patriarchs did sin, but not in having multiple wives. Adam did not need to have two ribs removed. Eve was enough for him. You cannot apply that principle universally, outside some creative interpretations of various passages of Scripture, including the ones about church leaders. Multiple wives is holy as well, even if it means that one is not considered for a position of church leadership. Multiple husbands, however, is unholy. You are absolutely right about divorce, though. I agree wholeheartedly with you on that.

Polygamy is an act of hard-heartedness (not loving enough). If you truly love your spouse, why would you want another? Jesus has only one Bride. He loves enough- fully, completely.

Where in the Bible do you find that Polygamy is an act of hard-heartedness? I have read the entire Bible, and I never found anything that remotely expresses that point of view. If God places a second wife in your path, why would you not want her.

Even if it is true that Jesus has only one bride, which I would argue against using II Cor 11:2 and the parable of the ten virgins, God said that He had two wives. Not everybody will end up with multiple wives, but that does not mean everyone should only have one wife.

 

[maxwel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

As far as I'm concerned, if any man is stupid enough to want multiple wives, and any women are stupid enough to get involved in that, there isn't any need for me to rebuke them... they will naturally suffer the natural consequences.

 

[samuel23]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Hi Galatea: In answer to your question, yes polygamy is only for men in the bible. For myself, I can't imagine why any man would want more then one woman unless there was a shortage of men and it was simply to have children. There is a place in the bible where it says that a time is coming when seven women will ask the same man to marry them so they can have children(obvious shortage of men). Polygamy was never called a sin in the bible and it is mistake to call it a sin, however I don't think it would ever be popular unless there was a shortage of men for the simple reason that most men want to be in a love relationship with one woman...not a whole group of women.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I know I am not any smarter then other folks but sometimes I wonder why people cannot see what I see. When Paul said that a leader in the church had to have only one wife he discouraged polygamy...he did not have to say, "I Paul discourage polygamy". About looking at a woman to lust after her, Jesus was speaking of a married man or looking at a married woman because someone has to be married in order to commit adultery. Now no one has to be married to commit fornication. Adultery is a form of fornication, however adultery has to involve a married person.

Even if it was Paul's intent to discourage polygamy, which he never tells us why, and there are multiple attempts to understand why he set forth that requirement, not necessarily involving discouragement of polygamy, discouraging something, is not the same as trying to argue as people do today, that polygamy is somehow sinful. Understanding why Paul set out the requirements he set forward, requires that you understand the culture that Paul was writing to. Sure the Greco Roman empire practiced monogamy, but it was not a form that is acceptable to Christianity! Look at Herod the Great and his poly gmay vs. Herod Antiper, and his monogamy, to get a clear picture.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

You can only marry another woman if your wife died. Polygamy is wrong and only applicable to animals. Not all animals actually because some animals are more loyal than others.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

You can only marry another woman if your wife died. Polygamy is wrong and only applicable to animals. Not all animals actually because some animals are more loyal than others.

Where is your Biblical justification for this claim?

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

As far as I'm concerned, if any man is stupid enough to want multiple wives, and any women are stupid enough to get involved in that, there isn't any need for me to rebuke them... they will naturally suffer the natural consequences.

You obviously have not encountered or communicated with a real polygamist. There are plenty online that you could get an informed opinion from. It would be a good idea to do so, before spouting an uninformed opinion.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Where is your Biblical justification for this claim?

Swans only have 1 mate. I believe penguins are also the same. It's not in the Bible but aren't they amazing? How can you be loyal equally to several wives?

 

[maxwel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

You obviously have not encountered or communicated with a real polygamist. There are plenty online that you could get an informed opinion from. It would be a good idea to do so, before spouting an uninformed opinion.

If you read your bible, you'd see this is taught IN the bible.
All polygamous relationships in the bible end in families that are dysfunctional and disastrous.
The king was specifically told NOT to have multiple wives... it's in the bible.

It's not MY fault if YOU can't read.

If you want to do the OPPOSITE of what God shows us in Genesis, and what God says and shows all through scripture... go ahead.

You are free to be as harmful to yourself as you like.

Not my problem.

However, you don't get to back everybody down just because you're loud.

 

[Galatea]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I don't know that polygyny is necessarily a great idea, it certainly is not for everyone, but I do believe that polyandry is a bad idea, and this is why God prohibited it. if my wife were to have another man, it could mean the end of our marriage, but she has a good thing, and I don't see that happening. Polygyny, is what we find examples of in Scripture, and for which there is no prohibition. I know that seems unfair, but men != women; that is just a biological fact. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where God intends for everything to be fair; just for us to live in accordance to His will.

I hope that answers your questions.

So, your wife has a good thing(you)- and therefore will not want another man. Then, logically that means you must not think you have a good thing (your wife)- and therefore you want more women?