The Born of God

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
I need to know what "born of God" means first!
There is a big differance between being begotten and being born.
Just What Does it Mean to be [Born Again] ? that being born of God is a process,
inwhich there is a time element. Just as being born of the human flesh a process.

most places you see born- should read begotten, fashoned after real human reproduction
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” (Rom. 8:14).

The unborn child in his mother’s womb is the child of his father and mother, though
not yet born—delivered from the womb. So are we, if God’s Spirit dwells in us

—if we are being led by God’s Spirit—children of God. Yet, at this time, we are
in the gestation state, not yet that parturition. And only heirs. Not inheritors!

Continue: “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be [future—at resurrection] also
glorified together” (v.-17). Now see how this passage designates the resurrection
into glory—when we shall be spirit—as a birth!

“For the earnest expectation of the creature [creation] waiteth for the manifestation of
the sons of God”—that is the time of Christ’s coming to reign, and of the resurrection to
(being born of) spirit composition—“ because the creation itself also shall be delivered
[a birth] from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now”
Another comparison: We shall be delivered from this world (the Church is in, though not
of, this world) into the glorious World Tomorrow and the Kingdom which shall rule it.

The creation is waiting for this time of Christ’s coming, the resurrection, and the Kingdom
of God. Because the creation shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption.

Not now delivered—shall be—at the resurrection time! Although this is not referring
directly to our being born again, it is a direct comparison to the birth of a child being
delivered from its mother’s womb.

The resurrection—the time when we are changed to be spirit and to inherit the Kingdom
will be a time of delivery from the bondage of corruptible flesh and from this world of sin
—a real birth!

Romans 8: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to
the image of his Son, that he [Jesus]might be the firstborn among many brethren” .

Now compare with Romans 1:3-4: “Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
which was made of the seed of David according the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God … by the resurrection from the dead.”

Jesus was, in the human flesh—His first birth—a descendant of David, and, by the
resurrection from the dead (born again) —the Son of God, now no longer human, but
composed of spirit—a spirit being. He thus became the first so born of many brethren
who shall be born again at the time of the resurrection of those who are Christ’s.

Of course we understand, and so did Paul in writing the above, that Jesus was also
the Son of God while in the human flesh. Though born of a human woman, He was
sired by God. But this is comparing the two births—the one from the human Mary,
as descended from the human David—the other, by His resurrection to glory,
as Son of God by His resurrection, in the same manner we may be.

Emphatically this does not imply that Jesus was a sinner needing salvation.
He was the pioneer, setting us the example, that we, too, may be born of God.

“For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for
the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body [flesh],
that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body …” (Phil. 3:20-21).

And what is Christ’s glorious body like? His eyes are as flames of fire
—His face bright as the sun atfull strength (Rev. 1:14-16).

Just What Do You Mean Born Again? that being born of God is a process,
inwhich there is a time element. Just as being born of the human flesh a process.

At the time when the father begets and the mother conceives—of the union of
sperm cell and ovum—the fertilized ovum becomes an embryo. But it is not yet
delivered from the womb—not yet born! And will not be for nine months.

A pregnancy is in progress. Yet during this period of physical development and
growth, it is the unborn child of its parents. In like manner, at the time when

the Spirit Father, God, begets a human with the Spirit (the spiritual counterpart
of the physical sperm)—the Holy Spirit—he becomes a son of God!

He is then already a son of God.

But he is still human—he is still material flesh and blood. He must now
undergo a period (until death, the resurrection) of spiritual development
and growth. He is in the gestation state in the process toward being born.

He is in the Church of God, but the Church is not the Kingdom of God.
The Church is composed of human, flesh-and-blood children of God.
And, flesh and blood cannot see, cannot enter into, cannot,ninherit the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God is made up ofspirit-composed children of God.
The Spirit-begotten human in the Church is in the process of being born of God,
but he has not yetentered the Kingdom of God. He has not yet been born of God.

He[we] is in the gestation state toward spirit birth, but not yet born of the Spirit.
He yet has a lot of spiritual developing and growing to do—acquiring the spiritual
character-image of God.

He that overcometh shall [inherit all things]; and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son. Revelation 21:7
what does it mean to [inherit all things] ?

Hebrews chapter 1: “God … Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things [Moffatt and others, the universe],

by whom also he made the worlds; Who, being the brightness of his glory, [Moffatt]
stamped with God’s own character and upholding [sustaining] the universe by the word
of his power …” (Heb. 1:1-3). All power, in heaven and Earth (Matt. 28:18), has been
given to Christ. He is now Chief Executive of God’s government of the universe.

Now begin with Hebrews 2:6; a citation from Psalm 8:4-6:

“What is man, that thou art mindful of him?”
Yes, why should the great God be concerned about us mortals?

Why did He put us here on Earth? What is the purpose of life—what
is our transcendent potential? It is so far above and beyond anything you
have thought or imagined, it seems shockingly incredible to even amange!

verse 7: “Thou madest him a little lower than the angels ….” Some translations
have it,“for a little while lower than the angels.” Continue: “[T]hou crownedst
him [kingship] with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands”
—that is, God’s creation. Continue:

“Thou hast put all things [Moffatt: the universe] in subjection under his feet.
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him..

“… But now [in this present gestation state] we see not yet all things
[the universe] put under him” (v. 8). But what do we see, now?
“But we see Jesus … crowned with glory and honour …” (v.-9).

“For it became him [Jesus], for whom are all things, and by whom are all things,
in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain [margin: leader—or,
forerunner, pioneer—the One who has gone on before us, as we are to follow]
of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who
are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren”
(vv. 10-11).

He is the firstborn of many brethren! He has inherited “all things”
We are still heirs—still in the gestation stage of the process of being born
of God. Jesus is now our High Priest, supervising our spiritual development
—preparing us to be kings and priests, reigning with Him!

The first thousand years we shall reign on the Earth. For He shall have
“made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth”
(Rev. 5:10).

For that first thousand years, Jesus is to reign on the throne of His earthly
ancestor David in Jerusalem (Isa. 9:6-7). And, “he that overcometh,
and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power
over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron …”

Jesus said, again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with
me in my throne [at Jerusalem], even as I also overcame, and am [now]
set down with my Father in his throne”[in heaven] (Rev. 3:21).

When born of God, we shall be spirit, no longer human flesh and blood.
We shall be given power! As Daniel revealed, the saints then shall take
the kingdoms of Earth’s nations and rule them—for the first thousand years.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
There is a big differance between being begotten and being born.
Just What Does it Mean to be [Born Again]
I see you copied a load from Herbie Armstrong here...
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
I see you copied a load from Herbie Armstrong here...
please show where this info conflicts with the bible.

Do you believe you go to heaven when you die?
As a human mortal can we sin? sinless?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
please show where this info conflicts with the bible.

Do you believe you go to heaven when you die?
As a human mortal can we sin? sinless?
I'm not going to go dissect Herbie's error - if you are happy with his "doctrine" have at it.

Yes, I do believe Christians now go to heaven when they die.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,177
29,480
113
I see you copied a load from Herbie Armstrong here...
Someone asked me recently if I was SDA, which, because I was not actively posting during that brief amount of time when I saw the question, but only perusing threads, I did not answer, though I have said many times while here, that I am non-denominational. I will add, that I search for information from any reputable site that gives good Scriptural support for their views, and sometimes, a site may be of an origin such as SDA, and someone wonders whether I subscribe to their whole enchilada, which I do not :) Ellen White? No thank you :D I do not follow a person even if I agree with some of their theology. Also, some people may opine that we should not borrow ideas from anyone known to be in error about one thing or another, and yet, we would all be bereft of ideas in such a case, and would have to throw out the Bible as well, since Moses was in error, by striking the rock twice, and he was prevented from entering the Holy Land or Promised Land because of it, and yet he wrote the first five books of the Bible, known as the Pentateuch. Others were in error at various times, David, our Psalmist, and Peter, what a row he and Paul had, thank God Paul prevailed! :)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
I'm not going to go dissect Herbie's error - if you are happy with his "doctrine" have at it.

Yes, I do believe Christians now go to heaven when they die.
again I will ask, since you believe above is in error that [I posted],
please show where this info conflicts with the bible.


please present your case about this heaven theory also.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
Someone asked me recently if I was SDA, which, because I was not actively posting during that brief amount of time when I saw the question, but only perusing threads, I did not answer, though I have said many times while here, that I am non-denominational. I will add, that I search for information from any reputable site that gives good Scriptural support for their views, and sometimes, a site may be of an origin such as SDA, and someone wonders whether I subscribe to their whole enchilada, which I do not :) Ellen White? No thank you :D I do not follow a person even if I agree with some of their theology. Also, some people may opine that we should not borrow ideas from anyone known to be in error about one thing or another, and yet, we would all be bereft of ideas in such a case, and would have to throw out the Bible as well, since Moses was in error, by striking the rock twice, and he was prevented from entering the Holy Land or Promised Land because of it, and yet he wrote the first five books of the Bible, known as the Pentateuch. Others were in error at various times, David, our Psalmist, and Peter, what a row he and Paul had, thank God Paul prevailed! :)
I know you said you weren't SDA, I've studied Ellen White's gang for years and Herbert Armstrong' stuff with his bogus and refuted Anglo-Israel-ism.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
again I will ask, since you believe above is in error that [I posted],
please show where this info conflicts with the bible.
There are lots of sites out there that can address the errors of Armstrong. google is a good place to start.


please present your case about this heaven theory also.
I suggest you start a thread on this, because it will take a while to establish the facts using scripture.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,177
29,480
113
I know you said you weren't SDA, I've studied Ellen White's gang for years and Herbert Armstrong' stuff with his bogus and refuted Anglo-Israel-ism.
Yes, I had said that in a previous post to the one I was referring, also saying I was not JW or Christadelphian either. I do source Christadelphian materials because I agree with them in part, though they apparently do not believe Jesus is God, so I am at odds with them there for sure. JWs had come into the same convo because apparently they do not believe in the fiery torments of hell either. However, they also reject Jesus as God. It seems fairly difficult if not impossible to agree in all points with one other person let alone a whole denomination :(
 

Huglife

Senior Member
Aug 15, 2016
2,543
50
48
Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?
You do realize that I SAID NOTHING about that??? And its obvious your jack. I remember you from when you were trolling me. And your writing style does not fit a typicle 19 year old.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
There are lots of sites out there that can address
the errors of Armstrong. google is a good place to start.
I see you can not even rebutt and addrees the little info I posted here yourself.
So you accuse me of posting false info on this thread, and gaff me off.
I posted on one little subject that pertained to this thread, can we address it.
put you money where your mouth is, bible says to prove all things not point blame
I suggest you start a thread on this,
because it will take a while to establish the facts using scripture.
this has to do with being begotten and born again, pertains to subject thread.
maybe you should have had that info on hand before you claimed this.
 
Mar 18, 2017
292
0
0
Yes, I had said that in a previous post to the one I was referring, also saying I was not JW or Christadelphian either. I do source Christadelphian materials because I agree with them in part, though they apparently do not believe Jesus is God, so I am at odds with them there for sure. JWs had come into the same convo because apparently they do not believe in the fiery torments of hell either. However, they also reject Jesus as God. It seems fairly difficult if not impossible to agree in all points with one other person let alone a whole denomination :(
Do you believe that Jesus is begotten of God?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
You do realize that I SAID NOTHING about that??? And its obvious your jack. I remember you from when you were trolling me. And your writing style does not fit a typicle 19 year old.
Good point, the style is not seem to be that of a 19 year old.
 
Mar 18, 2017
292
0
0
You do realize that I SAID NOTHING about that??? And its obvious your jack. I remember you from when you were trolling me. And your writing style does not fit a typicle 19 year old.
I am not Jack. It is obvious to me because I know who I am.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.