Dude that was perfectly put. 
Let's see who hammers you for saying it...
Let's see who hammers you for saying it...
Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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According to you, being honest and straightforward is seen as deceptive, and speaking the truth to a lie, hammering someone. You demand others admit they are wrong when they are not, while refusing to admit that you are wrong when you are. It is good to know where you stand, any ways
According to you, being honest and straightforward is seen as deceptive, and speaking the truth to a lie, hammering someone. You demand others admit they are wrong when they are not, while refusing to admit that you are wrong when you are. It is good to know where you stand, any ways
When I say, something is a little off, what I mean is, something does not seem quite totally right to me in a sentence, phrase or idea. Then I usually try to explain what part of it is not sitting quite right to me. Sometimes I can just be nitpicky, but Sometimes some part of something really just does sound not quite right to me. It happens to me a lot when doctrine is explained. I'll understand what's being said, but then at one part, it really does sound not quite right, like something is off in a place because it doesn't match up with some other part of scripture to me or it is ignoring the verses in tension to it. I don't mean to say everything about it seems wrong, just that one piece seems confusing or not right. I'm not ever saying: oh, you have said nothing right or good and you understand nothing at all, blah, blah, blah. I'm just working it all out as I go too, just like everyone else (besides the few who know everything ).
).
When I say, something is a little off, what I mean is, something does not seem quite totally right to me in a sentence, phrase or idea. Then I usually try to explain what part of it is not sitting quite right to me. Sometimes I can just be nitpicky, but Sometimes some part of something really just does sound not quite right to me. It happens to me a lot when doctrine is explained. I'll understand what's being said, but then at one part, it really does sound not quite right, like something is off in a place because it doesn't match up with some other part of scripture to me or it is ignoring the verses in tension to it. I don't mean to say everything about it seems wrong, just that one piece seems confusing or not right. I'm not ever saying: oh, you have said nothing right or good and you understand nothing at all, blah, blah, blah. I'm just working it all out as I go too, just like everyone else (besides the few who know everything ).
).
appreciate your grace and style. Being a factual, concept type of a guy, it is sometimes
hard to put things down, and just relax, and let a thought or idea dwell in me.
I am finding recently too many ideas are starting to dwell, but these are ideas of life,
and things I did not see before. I just praise the Lord for His blessing and His word.
I don't think we really do disagree on very much. And even if or when we do, it is never ugly and I always feel your love for me. I have watched you grow so much over the past...over a year now, that it sometimes brings me to tears of joy.
I worry most for people I don't see growth in. I don't worry for the ones who are able to listen to brothers and sisters they've come to trust and to say, you know what, you're right, I need to apologize, I got a bit stuffed full of myself in this post or I was trying to appear so wise to grab some of the glory for myself, etc., etc. I had to apologize yesterday in here to a brother because I posted a good post but I started it with one little sentence that was arrogant - "oh my..." Really. My one little fly stank up the entire ointment/ post, so I deserved to not even be listened to. Didn't matter that I didn't agree with him. All that mattered at that moment was my small little grab for some prominence of some sort, or to look wise? don't even fully know. Just tried to sneak in a little bit of superiority or...arrogance. That's all that mattered to God at that point. Nothing else mattered to Him but that. That "oh my..." was not designed in any way to bring any glory to God.
Anyway, I don't worry about a brother who can take a gentle reminder and admit it's true. I worry about my brothers who I never hear apologize, never hear admit a fault or arrogance or pride, never say, oh, yeah that was rude of me, I wish I hadn't done that.always hear only that they were not being wrong and were walking in love and are the best little angels, never once humbling themselves before their siblings, which they especially should be learning to do when they don't agree with someone!
They're the ones you worry about and pray over and plead for - not the ones you can see good growth in.
I was thinking about your analysis. I am not sure we grow so much as engage and share in a
meaningful way. Each engagement of communion, fellowship brings a different out come.
And if our fellowship is real, there will always be revelation, and respect given. It brings me back
to having an open heart or as the Lord described it a heart of flesh.
What I am always brought back to is Jesus weeping with Mary and Martha at Lazaruses funeral.
The Lord at this time was the teacher, who gave as He saw fit, and they were not quite sure
how to engage with Him as He was obviously different. After pentecost anointed with the Holy
Spirit, walking in revelation and power, things became quite different.
This is a walk of the heart, of love, of seeing need and pouring into it.
The Lord never forces His way into anyones life. He asks and waits to be invited in.
It is why I see now a lot of these discussions are not constructive, because they are
not following the Lords ways or precepts of discovery and humbleness.
One can but share what the Lord has given, but it is easy to end up wanting recognition
that you have something, because who are any of us to have a word from the Lord.
It is easy to fall into I know something, rather than seeing the flow of the eternal
against the mortal. We are very bad at seeing these things, I suppose because we are
born into the world and learn its ways, and we need to learn the ways of the King to
appreciate what is happening.
Sorry, I am thinking as I write, and did not know I would end up here. Praise the Lord
for who He is, and what He can bring to our minds. Amen
meaningful way. Each engagement of communion, fellowship brings a different out come.
And if our fellowship is real, there will always be revelation, and respect given. It brings me back
to having an open heart or as the Lord described it a heart of flesh.
What I am always brought back to is Jesus weeping with Mary and Martha at Lazaruses funeral.
The Lord at this time was the teacher, who gave as He saw fit, and they were not quite sure
how to engage with Him as He was obviously different. After pentecost anointed with the Holy
Spirit, walking in revelation and power, things became quite different.
This is a walk of the heart, of love, of seeing need and pouring into it.
The Lord never forces His way into anyones life. He asks and waits to be invited in.
It is why I see now a lot of these discussions are not constructive, because they are
not following the Lords ways or precepts of discovery and humbleness.
One can but share what the Lord has given, but it is easy to end up wanting recognition
that you have something, because who are any of us to have a word from the Lord.
It is easy to fall into I know something, rather than seeing the flow of the eternal
against the mortal. We are very bad at seeing these things, I suppose because we are
born into the world and learn its ways, and we need to learn the ways of the King to
appreciate what is happening.
Sorry, I am thinking as I write, and did not know I would end up here. Praise the Lord
for who He is, and what He can bring to our minds. Amen
So does that mean the hope you have you infact do have as long as you stay on guard?
So as long as you do not stumble then you are sure of the hope you have?
How you keep the faith, attest the faith, know that your faith is sufficient.
What if you were to stumble for a period of days but died before you got back up on your feet?
So as long as you do not stumble then you are sure of the hope you have?
How you keep the faith, attest the faith, know that your faith is sufficient.
What if you were to stumble for a period of days but died before you got back up on your feet?
Is it?
That's quite a generalisation.
Yes you may get the odd bad apple who abuses grace,
On the whole though I would say that most would think it's not ok to sin but understand people do sin.
Whether it be by commission or omission.
That of course does not condone sin/sinning.
We are responsible for our actions full stop.
That's quite a generalisation.
Yes you may get the odd bad apple who abuses grace,
On the whole though I would say that most would think it's not ok to sin but understand people do sin.
Whether it be by commission or omission.
That of course does not condone sin/sinning.
We are responsible for our actions full stop.
This is something I really don't get.
Why are there people who think that because there are others who believe in grace/salvation think that because we believe that it ok to sin, accuse of abusing grace (There is a big word but can't remember it, it starts with an A)
Accuse of being greasy gracers.
Where does this come from?
Why are there people who think that because there are others who believe in grace/salvation think that because we believe that it ok to sin, accuse of abusing grace (There is a big word but can't remember it, it starts with an A)
Accuse of being greasy gracers.
Where does this come from?
Well...I see what you are saying and meaning in that first sentence, but there are many verses that phrase it that way, that we should be growing in trust (faith), in love, in virtues like humility, etc. We don't always see it in ourselves but others often do, but sometimes He lets us see some bit of our growth. I think He does it to encourage us.
He has let me see some of my growth at times. One day I suddenly realized that I had gotten angry at no one for a long time. So I sat there and tried to think of the last time because I was quite certain I must have just been getting angry and murdering and not known it. Maybe deceived. I had been walking in the Spirit, in great peace for some length of time, but I couldn't remember how long. This was great encouragement to me. It made me really see and understand for the first time this verse: and we know we love Him if we keep His commands. And I sat there just dumbfounded. If you had known me a few years ago you would understand why I was so surprised. I used to be a terror. I would not only murder in my heart but it would spill over to the outside and I would cut someone to pieces with my words. They did not leave unbloodied.
And I used to never be able to admit error or apologize. I was very prideful. You would not hear an apology out of me for the way I acted or spoke or anything I did. Even if someone said, you really hurt my feelings, I would not believe I had done anything wrong.
And then, if someone hurt my feelings, of course I demanded apology. I never gave apology but my hurt feelings and sensitive pride would always demand one. So it was surprising to find myself in a peace, not murdering, not even getting my feelings hurt, but just quietly forgiving, not even mentioning it. If anything, I would often think, oh, I used to do that a lot and it would make me be filled with such love for them.
I don't know how He does it. I can only marvel at it. Because when I tried so hard to stop being that way, it just got worse and worse until I was so odious to myself that if I could have jumped out of my skin to escape myself, I would have done it. But when I sort of gave up and said, if I'm going to be good or pure in heart or have any small virtue, You will have to do it, because I keep failing at some point and then I become depressed at my badness.
None of that was achieved by me. It's Him in me and it is such a marvel and I wish I understood more how He does it.
I'm now able to apologize quite readily, and with joy, when I have been a bit arrogant or said something mean or hurt someones feelings. It only takes one little nudge from the Spirit to cause me to apologize. And I don't demand apologies for myself anymore. I don't need them. I just want to forgive. Actually, I want to not even get my feelings hurt in the first place because hurt feelings come from pride and the feeling that I deserve respect and I don't feel I deserve respect - He does.
Along with all of His work that He lets me see, there is also a simultaneous seeing of what I still lack in virtue or in love, but it no longer causes depression in me but makes me trust Him more and more to finish the work.
He has let me see some of my growth at times. One day I suddenly realized that I had gotten angry at no one for a long time. So I sat there and tried to think of the last time because I was quite certain I must have just been getting angry and murdering and not known it. Maybe deceived. I had been walking in the Spirit, in great peace for some length of time, but I couldn't remember how long. This was great encouragement to me. It made me really see and understand for the first time this verse: and we know we love Him if we keep His commands. And I sat there just dumbfounded. If you had known me a few years ago you would understand why I was so surprised. I used to be a terror. I would not only murder in my heart but it would spill over to the outside and I would cut someone to pieces with my words. They did not leave unbloodied.
And I used to never be able to admit error or apologize. I was very prideful. You would not hear an apology out of me for the way I acted or spoke or anything I did. Even if someone said, you really hurt my feelings, I would not believe I had done anything wrong.
And then, if someone hurt my feelings, of course I demanded apology. I never gave apology but my hurt feelings and sensitive pride would always demand one. So it was surprising to find myself in a peace, not murdering, not even getting my feelings hurt, but just quietly forgiving, not even mentioning it. If anything, I would often think, oh, I used to do that a lot and it would make me be filled with such love for them.
I don't know how He does it. I can only marvel at it. Because when I tried so hard to stop being that way, it just got worse and worse until I was so odious to myself that if I could have jumped out of my skin to escape myself, I would have done it. But when I sort of gave up and said, if I'm going to be good or pure in heart or have any small virtue, You will have to do it, because I keep failing at some point and then I become depressed at my badness.
None of that was achieved by me. It's Him in me and it is such a marvel and I wish I understood more how He does it.
I'm now able to apologize quite readily, and with joy, when I have been a bit arrogant or said something mean or hurt someones feelings. It only takes one little nudge from the Spirit to cause me to apologize. And I don't demand apologies for myself anymore. I don't need them. I just want to forgive. Actually, I want to not even get my feelings hurt in the first place because hurt feelings come from pride and the feeling that I deserve respect and I don't feel I deserve respect - He does.
Along with all of His work that He lets me see, there is also a simultaneous seeing of what I still lack in virtue or in love, but it no longer causes depression in me but makes me trust Him more and more to finish the work.
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I was driving to a house group meeting with a group of christians. It was snowing, a
road we were going down was a slight hill, and led to a T junction. Ice was on the
road, so no brakes. We slid out into the road which was empty, but my first reaction
as to say "S...", which adequately described the situation.
So I see recognising a bad situation, pain, problems and emotionally reacting to it is
not sin. It is not sin to express this emotion openly. How we express it does determine
under whose authority we work.
I remember at school meeting a caretaker who swore every other word. They obviously had
some serious issues in their life and could not control how they felt.
I also remember as a 13 year old feeling big by swearing whenever I liked.
But does swearing get anywhere, or even is it a release? Ow in this situation is actually
a true description of what happened without any other implications.
road we were going down was a slight hill, and led to a T junction. Ice was on the
road, so no brakes. We slid out into the road which was empty, but my first reaction
as to say "S...", which adequately described the situation.
So I see recognising a bad situation, pain, problems and emotionally reacting to it is
not sin. It is not sin to express this emotion openly. How we express it does determine
under whose authority we work.
I remember at school meeting a caretaker who swore every other word. They obviously had
some serious issues in their life and could not control how they felt.
I also remember as a 13 year old feeling big by swearing whenever I liked.
But does swearing get anywhere, or even is it a release? Ow in this situation is actually
a true description of what happened without any other implications.
What is wrong with the F word?
1. It demeans the act of love into abuse
2. It links the creative act of our very lives to pain
3. It conveys a rejection about the whole situation we are in
4. It exagurates the impact of whatever is happening
5. It often links violence and aggression to the situation
As a follower of Jesus none of these attributes would I want to link to an event
or anything I was involved with.
1. It demeans the act of love into abuse
2. It links the creative act of our very lives to pain
3. It conveys a rejection about the whole situation we are in
4. It exagurates the impact of whatever is happening
5. It often links violence and aggression to the situation
As a follower of Jesus none of these attributes would I want to link to an event
or anything I was involved with.
Some would ask, do we care about how we come across?
And the answer is yes, because we are walking as witnesses to Christ and His word.
It is hard to realise our walk is His power at work within us, or lack of it.
The other thing people do not realise is how different it truly makes people and groups
without the people themselves noticing it. We have a great Lord and Saviour and the
work He has started He will bring to completion.
And the answer is yes, because we are walking as witnesses to Christ and His word.
It is hard to realise our walk is His power at work within us, or lack of it.
The other thing people do not realise is how different it truly makes people and groups
without the people themselves noticing it. We have a great Lord and Saviour and the
work He has started He will bring to completion.