Not By Works

[JohnTalmid]

So, let's get your official definition of salvation and how to be saved. Also, throw in what "false grace" is.

I have I thought.

 

[JohnTalmid]

I have I thought.

Well, the question is where do we get our wisdom? From God or man? As you would suggest, God rules with love, yet the truth would be: God is love and therefore rules. So we need not analyze what love means with human reasoning, applying not to what God tells us. We need to be humble before all things love says, and as it becomes clear - act immediately towards it. we learn from the Master what love means. To learn constitutes a new idea that we behaviorally change in ourselves to apply to.

Are you alive to the doctrine of love or alive in Christ Jesus? 2 Timothy 3:16, tells us there are four issues God interacts with man. Are we to eliminate two of them due to an unevenness in our common sense? Or are we to learn from God, because we have placed our faith in Him, that the only wisdom worthy of listening to is Himself. After all, He is love thus, when He states that the Bible is useful for...Teaching, Rebuke, Correction, and Training, are we to debate God in the areas common sense opposes Him? Do we recalibrate the truth to be more palatable by saying God gives us the right to rebuke and correct others for those not like us - His Children? aiming our righteousness full of pride directly in their sights like a missile? God's Word is clear: Our Lord not only requires chastity of body; He requires chastity of thought. You see wisdom comes from God, and God doesn't need you to agree with it, simply accept it, as you become it. God is love and everything He says is for our best, He is not interested in "our good enough" for this is the Character of love. This is the Character of God.

As strange as it may sound, sin seems to have a will of it's own. Truth be told, sin is a being, and not a noun. Like an addiction, sin takes hold of us and causes us to act in ways we never wanted. I read Paul, and for him the Cross of Jesus deals finally and definitely with the dual reality of sin. Not only are we forgiven of our sins (which I believe you are not contesting); our willful acts of disobedience - but we are also liberated from the power of sin. (To this I ask: "Do you believe that?").

In the incarnation and sacrificial death of Jesus, God is at work to extend salvation to those who fall under sin's addiction. They are liberated from its power, cleansed of its stain. By "God's restorative justice," Paul means first the justice that belongs to God and reflects His Character. God is just, fair, or in a word, righteous. But Character is dynamic, not static. This means that God's justice must express itself in some way. So it is in the nature of God's justice that He acts to restore and repair a world that is not the way it should be. Above all, it is God's saving actions thru Jesus that constitute the gift of God's restorative justice. Thus, faith without (good) works is dead. What you suggest to see as "fear imposed" I see as freedom to offer my life a living sacrifice Holy and acceptable to God. In essence aligning my life with God where God is well-pleased and not grieved.

Grace is no license to sin. As creatures we are made to serve our Creator. In the absence of truth we will serve somebody or something. It's an essential part of our nature. Our only choice is this: Whom will we serve? At one time, we all served sin and grew weak under its deadly power over us. Now, thru God's grace, we have not been freed from serving, but have become servants of obedience that sets us right with God, each other, and ourselves.

We must daily decide whose servant we are and offer Him our hands, our feet, our hearts, our eyes. But, be clear; there is no Spirit of Humanism, this is the subtle lie of Satan accepting you to give God all things save one: the power to rule you. Galatians 2:20 shows us the outcome of a man "IN CHRIST." A man whom is free to walk in the valley of the shadow of death and to fear no evil. God's purposes will be served... are we proud to be apart of His intentions and purposes? Do we love Him whom will share His glory? "If you love Me, you will obey my commandments." Does this sound like a regime of fear? No, God is love; However, does it not also include obligation, The awe of God, and the belief in His Word's that what he says will come to pass?

"Faithful in Master YHWH..." that I may bring to recollection the sent messengers and set apart ways in Messiah, agreeably what I teach in all the assemblies. I come to you in the spirit of gentleness to plead with you to return to our Fathers' ways, and the ways of all of the set apart believers of the way of Master YHWH and Messiah Yeshua. It is not that I desire to in some way become your father that I speak like this. I speak like this so that you may remember what you have heard from the beginning. It was the Messiah's own Father that led you to believe in his son. Now it is by the spirit of my Master Yeshua that I share with you the certain hope and mystery that has existed from the founding of the heavens and from the foundation of the earth and all that is in them.
I am a slave to my Master Yeshua and a bond servant to his will. He has guided me into truth so that I may share it with those of you who have an ear to hear, obey, and understand. It was with great peril that the sent of Master Yeshua gave their messages of repentance. In chritianity we can see one term, (repentance) for two terms in the scripture. This has caused them in teaching to miss the mark and make grievous error regarding the reality of repentance. 1 Cor. 10:6and11 ish. Says, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.", also again it is written, "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."
So now is there rebellion as in Israel's day evident in our day to us? Is there a rebellion against Elohim and his ways? YES! Yes! I tell you and you know daily people of all religious creeds participate in rebellion, covetousness, sexual sin, and yes they have even contempt for Messiah, as some of them tempted; and serpents destroyed them. Neither should we complain, as some of them complained; and where destroyed by the destroyer.
Where does it say to flee from idolatry? You shall not bow down to idols to worship them! I say though they have provoked the jealousy of Master Yeshua. Do you not know and have you not heard we are to be perfect, holy, and blameless; without sin?
Not the hearers of Torah are righteous before Elohim; but the doers of Torah are being made righteous. Do you not know that you profane the name of the Father by not obeying the Father and saying, "We are the people of YHVH"! For we know, that Torah is of the Spirit; also sin is violation of Torah. Don't you know that to whomsoever you give up yourselves to serve in bondage, his servants you are, whom you serve; whether it is to sin, or whether it be to righteousness, that you give ear? Men have however made their own teachings and perverted the plan and grace of Elohim our G_d. Now become a slave to Master Yeshua and to our Father because as long as you are a slave to sin you are emancipated from the grace of Elohim, and a stranger to his covenants; without hope and lost in the world.
Behold the day of YHWH is come.
The good news is that finally there is no condemnation any longer that sin and death brought about through the instruction in righteousness that is meant for your edification and sanctification in Messiah and in our Elohim who makes us Holy. If you have the ear to hear it I am telling you today what works where created for you to live in and gain life through; because it was this same word, ()named Yeshua) that instructed Moses. Before Moses was Abraham worshiped the Messiah and Elohim in agreement to his word. "Because Abraham heard, obeyed*my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and My Torah." Noah found grace in the eyes of Elohim and discerned the difference from clean and unclean. Job was a man that was still pleased in El Shaddai in his great suffering at the hand of the destroyer, “Have you considered My servant Job, that [there is] none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him without cause.".”Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and [yet] had condemned Job."*
These few righteous men of Elohim not to mention all the prophets that testify to Messiah also obey the instruction of YHWH. There is therefore coming a day when there will be made a distinction between the servants of sin and the servants of Elohim and the Messiah.*
The Gospel or Basar originates in Gan Eden when YHWH introduced Adam and Eve to the "Tree of Life" that would cause them to live forever. The tree here represents the Kingdom of Elohim, which has no beginning or end. The sprout which was spoken of by Isaiah is the foretelling of the birth of the tree of life through Messiah, and foundation of the gospel, though it did not originate at the coming of Yeshua but already existed. In Luke 1:26 "Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,"[Galeela, (to reveal) Nazareth, (city of the branch)] (Torah or Instruction, Still scrolls are called a tree of life in synagogue)"The fruit of the righteous [is a] tree of life, and he who wins souls [is] wise."
So my Master Yeshua is this same shoot of Jessie that is alive, has made atonement for you in your ignorance, and is raised from the death to everlasting life and joy to receive you in obedience in his Father's name and never leave you or forsake you even in these later days. As I have already said there is a time coming and it is already here when distinction will be made between those who are slaves to sin and those slaves to righteousness. So turn quickly to the faith which saves to life of life and grows us together in agreement in Messiah and Strength.* This obedience to Torah is our strength if we remain united with Messiah and remember Torah is of the Spirit and sin is violation of this instruction. Be ignorant no longer and put on the full armor of Elohim and while you do this return and put on the Belt of Truth which is where your weakness is and gird up your loin. If Yeshua dwells in you, you will have this witness. The spirit of knowledge and reverence for YHWH will sprout forth good fruit unto everlasting life.
*Please I know you are not void of understanding, I speak this way because before Elohim no man can stand or be found with words in his mouth at judgment for his defense. If I make a case against you I do myself as well. Yet I plead with you as heirs to the promise and hope which is the Kingdom of Elohim and of the Messiah to not only put your trust in this Yeshua with an outward expression of faith but act in true faith and in obedience and humility, prayerfully to our Elohim Master YHWH in our Messiah Yeshua make supplications, fasting, and with great rejoicing in its season; rest.

Here you go

 

[Sully]

Huh. That's a lot more verbose than "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No we have so many believers today believing they are saved and living two life's one on Sunday and the other during the week. We have so many who no longer sees the importance of living out ones faith.

You throw around works salvation and I just wonder what your talking about. I live by faith and my faith relies on scripture. And when scripture tells me to imitate Christ and the apostles this I must do. Do I believe I can do anything of my own. No I can not. But as I listen to the Spirit that guides me, the doing good is where it leads me.

In obedience I surrender and deny myself in order to do the will of God.

If you think God is all controlling then how
does that fit his nature? Do you believe out of our free will we can't tell God no once we have the faith?
I know in fact it's a lot easier saying no than saying yes I serve you God.

God wants a relationship not a robot.

If all the warnings in scripture to believers has to do with rewards in heaven then I wonder why some say destruction, or burned up.

Or warnings to not fall for false teachers as some had. The gates to heaven must be really wide because the fans are many but sadly the followers are few.

When you say scripture tells you that you must imitate Christ and so you must do that, could you give me some examples of how you do this? (For instance, anger in your heart is murder. Once you truly understand this, do you try very hard not to get angry and so you have obeyed Him?)

 

[JohnTalmid]

I have I thought.

"Faithful in Master YHWH..." that I may bring to recollection the sent messengers and set apart ways in Messiah, agreeably what I teach in all the assemblies. I come to you in the spirit of gentleness to plead with you to return to our Fathers' ways, and the ways of all of the set apart believers of the way of Master YHWH and Messiah Yeshua. It is not that I desire to in some way become your father that I speak like this. I speak like this so that you may remember what you have heard from the beginning. It was the Messiah's own Father that led you to believe in his son. Now it is by the spirit of my Master Yeshua that I share with you the certain hope and mystery that has existed from the founding of the heavens and from the foundation of the earth and all that is in them.
I am a slave to my Master Yeshua and a bond servant to his will. He has guided me into truth so that I may share it with those of you who have an ear to hear, obey, and understand. It was with great peril that the sent of Master Yeshua gave their messages of repentance. In chritianity we can see one term, (repentance) for two terms in the scripture. This has caused them in teaching to miss the mark and make grievous error regarding the reality of repentance. 1 Cor. 10:6and11 ish. Says, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.", also again it is written, "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."
So now is there rebellion as in Israel's day evident in our day to us? Is there a rebellion against Elohim and his ways? YES! Yes! I tell you and you know daily people of all religious creeds participate in rebellion, covetousness, sexual sin, and yes they have even contempt for Messiah, as some of them tempted; and serpents destroyed them. Neither should we complain, as some of them complained; and where destroyed by the destroyer.
Where does it say to flee from idolatry? You shall not bow down to idols to worship them! I say though they have provoked the jealousy of Master Yeshua. Do you not know and have you not heard we are to be perfect, holy, and blameless; without sin?
Not the hearers of Torah are righteous before Elohim; but the doers of Torah are being made righteous. Do you not know that you profane the name of the Father by not obeying the Father and saying, "We are the people of YHVH"! For we know, that Torah is of the Spirit; also sin is violation of Torah. Don't you know that to whomsoever you give up yourselves to serve in bondage, his servants you are, whom you serve; whether it is to sin, or whether it be to righteousness, that you give ear? Men have however made their own teachings and perverted the plan and grace of Elohim our G_d. Now become a slave to Master Yeshua and to our Father because as long as you are a slave to sin you are emancipated from the grace of Elohim, and a stranger to his covenants; without hope and lost in the world.
Behold the day of YHWH is come.
The good news is that finally there is no condemnation any longer that sin and death brought about through the instruction in righteousness that is meant for your edification and sanctification in Messiah and in our Elohim who makes us Holy. If you have the ear to hear it I am telling you today what works where created for you to live in and gain life through; because it was this same word, ()named Yeshua) that instructed Moses. Before Moses was Abraham worshiped the Messiah and Elohim in agreement to his word. "Because Abraham heard, obeyed*my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and My Torah." Noah found grace in the eyes of Elohim and discerned the difference from clean and unclean. Job was a man that was still pleased in El Shaddai in his great suffering at the hand of the destroyer, “Have you considered My servant Job, that [there is] none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him without cause.".”Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and [yet] had condemned Job."*
These few righteous men of Elohim not to mention all the prophets that testify to Messiah also obey the instruction of YHWH. There is therefore coming a day when there will be made a distinction between the servants of sin and the servants of Elohim and the Messiah.*
The Gospel or Basar originates in Gan Eden when YHWH introduced Adam and Eve to the "Tree of Life" that would cause them to live forever. The tree here represents the Kingdom of Elohim, which has no beginning or end. The sprout which was spoken of by Isaiah is the foretelling of the birth of the tree of life through Messiah, and foundation of the gospel, though it did not originate at the coming of Yeshua but already existed. In Luke 1:26 "Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,"[Galeela, (to reveal) Nazareth, (city of the branch)] (Torah or Instruction, Still scrolls are called a tree of life in synagogue)"The fruit of the righteous [is a] tree of life, and he who wins souls [is] wise."
So my Master Yeshua is this same shoot of Jessie that is alive, has made atonement for you in your ignorance, and is raised from the death to everlasting life and joy to receive you in obedience in his Father's name and never leave you or forsake you even in these later days. As I have already said there is a time coming and it is already here when distinction will be made between those who are slaves to sin and those slaves to righteousness. So turn quickly to the faith which saves to life of life and grows us together in agreement in Messiah and Strength.* This obedience to Torah is our strength if we remain united with Messiah and remember Torah is of the Spirit and sin is violation of this instruction. Be ignorant no longer and put on the full armor of Elohim and while you do this return and put on the Belt of Truth which is where your weakness is and gird up your loin. If Yeshua dwells in you, you will have this witness. The spirit of knowledge and reverence for YHWH will sprout forth good fruit unto everlasting life.
*Please I know you are not void of understanding, I speak this way because before Elohim no man can stand or be found with words in his mouth at judgment for his defense. If I make a case against you I do myself as well. Yet I plead with you as heirs to the promise and hope which is the Kingdom of Elohim and of the Messiah to not only put your trust in this Yeshua with an outward expression of faith but act in true faith and in obedience and humility, prayerfully to our Elohim Master YHWH in our Messiah Yeshua make supplications, fasting, and with great rejoicing in its season; rest.

Here you go

 

[JohnTalmid]

Re: Not by works.

It is not by works we are saved however it is through the correct works that we can know we are saved. False grace is the falling away from the 613 commandments in Torah and teaching others not to keep them or to not even try to do them. Faith the word has been changed to be interpreted as magic. Faith is not magic it is Torah. Same as it says in prov. Your word is truth..
You will know the truth and the truth will make you free

 

[Roughsoul1991]

When you say scripture tells you that you must imitate Christ and so you must do that, could you give me some examples of how you do this? (For instance, anger in your heart is murder. Once you truly understand this, do you try very hard not to get angry and so you have obeyed Him?)

Obedience in Christ is understanding we are mere mortal humans who can rely on the help of God. Once we realize God is calling us to follow him. Restraining from anger no longer becomes of the self which rarely works but once we rely on the Spirit to lead us we begin to remember scriptures and remember the love of Christ and his sacrifice for us. So now instead of trying to be not angry, we have humility and the word of God working in us reminding us the way to imitate Christ.

And as them same reminders work in us if we mess up, our relationship with Christ will make us feel Godly sorrow and lead us to repentance and as we have faith in Gods promises we remember worldly grief wants us to remain in sorrows but Godly grief wants us to acknowledge our wrongdoing and move forward not to remain in sorrow as the devil would like but of Joy in the forgiveness of Christ and in which we in continuance of faith, longing in love for Christ to imitate his love and humility to be the light in amidst the dark.

[h=1]2 Corinthians 7:10Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]10 For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 8:21Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 But He replied to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who hear and do the word of God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[h=1]1 Corinthians 11:1Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]1 Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 13:7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]7 Remember your leaders who have spoken God’s word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith.[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 5:1Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 Therefore, be imitators of God, as dearly loved children.

[/FONT]
[h=1]John 14:26English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][FONT=&quot]26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Isaiah 30:21Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 and whenever you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear this command behind you: “This is the way. Walk in it.”[/FONT]

 

[JohnTalmid]

Roughsoul1991

"And as them same reminders work in us if we mess up, our relationship with Christ will make us feel Godly sorrow and lead us to repentance and as we have faith in Gods promises we remember worldly grief wants us to remain in sorrows but Godly grief wants us to acknowledge our wrongdoing and move forward not to remain in sorrow as the devil would like but of Joy in the forgiveness of Christ and in which we in continuance of faith, longing in love for Christ to imitate his love and humility to be the light in amidst the dark. "

If you have need to repent after the salvation of God in Messiah you where never truly saved. For you are crucifying the Lord all over again. Don't you know that you have died with Messiah and if redeemed raised with him in glory? Therefore it is no longer you who sins but sin housed inside your flesh that sins. The life you have in Messiah is hidden in Master YHWH because Yeshua has placed it there. You my friend have not come to the knowledge of the Grace of Elohim but have inherited error from the tradition of men.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Obedience in Christ is understanding we are mere mortal humans who can rely on the help of God. Once we realize God is calling us to follow him. Restraining from anger no longer becomes of the self which rarely works but once we rely on the Spirit to lead us we begin to remember scriptures and remember the love of Christ and his sacrifice for us. So now instead of trying to be not angry, we have humility and the word of God working in us reminding us the way to imitate Christ.

And as them same reminders work in us if we mess up, our relationship with Christ will make us feel Godly sorrow and lead us to repentance and as we have faith in Gods promises we remember worldly grief wants us to remain in sorrows but Godly grief wants us to acknowledge our wrongdoing and move forward not to remain in sorrow as the devil would like but of Joy in the forgiveness of Christ and in which we in continuance of faith, longing in love for Christ to imitate his love and humility to be the light in amidst the dark.

2 Corinthians 7:10Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

10 For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.


Luke 8:21Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

21 But He replied to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who hear and do the word of God.”


1 Corinthians 11:1Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

1 Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ.


Hebrews 13:7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

7 Remember your leaders who have spoken God’s word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith.
Ephesians 5:1Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Therefore, be imitators of God, as dearly loved children.


John 14:26English Standard Version (ESV)

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.


Isaiah 30:21Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

21 and whenever you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear this command behind you: “This is the way. Walk in it.”

You have answered very well.

 

[JohnTalmid]

ah not t all on the contrary when i pray he is there i turn from temtptation.. to get into bad meanigless words... i feel wondeful renewed spirit of hope when i hope. to be with him... somethings happpens inside of me... like genorosity...and kind thoughts.... it beauitfull to me.. not crushing.

This fails too

Your sorrow is worldly because I too am persuaded by the flesh to repent. My inward man however knows the truth, I am redeemed raised with Yeshua in glory and my life promised by Yeshua is handed to YHWH where no one or anything can separate it from the Love of YHWH.
Your kind thoughts I believe may be the Holy Spirit of Elohim Messiah who seeks to reveal all truth to mankind. It is a deception of self and corruption. It is not unforgivable and I am not saying put yourself under the law of sin and death but your flesh already is, yes so is all flesh. Not to worry flesh has no inheritance in the Kingdom and will be burned up at the glorious return of my King Yahshua the Messiah of Israel the son of YHWH. I see by your works,(namely the words you wrote). Your grief is the kind that leads to death. However because I judge by outward means I must say, it is not up to me to judge you're heart. The beautiful thing is if you keep looking for his face he will show it to you. Your desire to repent is genuine desire to repent. You must seek understanding then you will know the truth and it will set you free. The heart is thoroughly wicked and deceptive. The love of Elohim is following his Instruction, not just the testimony of Messiah as your heart seems to confess on in your words. Grace and Shalom to you in Messiah John

 

[JesusRules1]

Paul-not saved by works,by faith alone,when we initially come to Christ,for our works according to the flesh cannot save us,and our righteousness is as filthy rags,so the only thing we can have is faith.

James-faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not be faith alone,after we confess Christ,and receive the Spirit,and are saved,then we have to have works to have faith active in our works.

2 different scenarios,not we are not saved by works throughout the time we are saved,but when we initially come to Christ,and when we receive the Spirit,then a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for when we first come to Christ our works do not count for they are of the flesh,but when we receive the Spirit then our works count for they are of the Spirit.

And those works are love people,and help them with their needs,which we know we are supposed to do anyway,for James said if you do not help people with their needs,how do you have faith,and how can the love of God dwell in you,and Paul said they have erred from the faith.

So Paul and James say the same thing,Paul-they have erred from the faith,and James-how do you have faith,if a person does not help people with their needs.

 

[JohnTalmid]

My wife just summed it up better than I could. " If your sorrow leads you to inaction then its not true faith."

 

[JohnTalmid]

If your good work is nothing more than feeding the orphan, poor, and fending for the widow among you they are nothing but dirty rags or your salt in "other" words has lost it's flavor and it is good for nothing but being trodden underfoot. Haven't you read "get away from me you workers of lawlessness, (Torahlessness)." The true works of the Kingdom empowered the "Churches" in the days of the emissary's of Messiah to feed the poor,orphan, and fend for the widow among them. Today you have to get on a list and wait in line to get help. In the days of the emissary's of Messiah they shared freely one with another because they where all as one in Messiah. What separates the Churches today are all doctrines of men and demons. If a person comes to know Messiah and is baptized he is quickly indoctrinated into there religion instead of the true religion of Torah, which if practiced correctly leads to life.

 

[JohnTalmid]

The most basic question that comes to me is, Do Christians want bigger churches or true revival? Because they act like they just want bigger churches which if practiced leads to death.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Huh. That's a lot more verbose than "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Who is the Lord in that scripture?

 

[JohnTalmid]

You have answered poorly. Sorry. I still love you, but you're not bering fruit to righteousness. You're confessing by your words you will feel godly sorrow that leads to repentance. This is the first step but the preordained works that you are called to is imitation of Messiah by doing the Kingdoms Instructions that will never change, like repentance which for example not worshipping the false holydays the God of Heaven and Earth that swallowed up those who bowed down to the golden calf. Or later when Israel was burning incense to the surpent on the stake and had forgotten the Torah of YHWH, (just like today). Remember the things that happened to them are examples for us today especially. What happened to them? The surpent of bronze was ground into powder and put in the river so they all had to drink it. Wormwood curse came upon them. They drank bitterness but that is a whole lesson y'all may not be ready for.

 

[mailmandan]

Paul-not saved by works,by faith alone,when we initially come to Christ,for our works according to the flesh cannot save us,and our righteousness is as filthy rags,so the only thing we can have is faith.

James-faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not be faith alone,after we confess Christ,and receive the Spirit,and are saved,then we have to have works to have faith active in our works.

2 different scenarios,not we are not saved by works throughout the time we are saved,but when we initially come to Christ,and when we receive the Spirit,then a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for when we first come to Christ our works do not count for they are of the flesh,but when we receive the Spirit then our works count for they are of the Spirit.

And those works are love people,and help them with their needs,which we know we are supposed to do anyway,for James said if you do not help people with their needs,how do you have faith,and how can the love of God dwell in you,and Paul said they have erred from the faith.

So Paul and James say the same thing,Paul-they have erred from the faith,and James-how do you have faith,if a person does not help people with their needs.

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:21-24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9). James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen...mailmandan. The truth is that real faith will always have some kind of a corresponding action.

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.


James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out.

We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

The corresponding "action or work" is a fruit of believing and receiving the grace through faith in Christ's completed work only on the cross and resurrection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The concept is simple. God will deliver His judgement, singular on all.
Those in the Lord walk in righteousness and forgiveness of sins, so have nothing to fear.

Those in the world are full of wickedness and rebellion and will be found guilty, and not
be written in the Lambs book of life.

Now mention of a judgement seat, where God will judge is not a different type of judgement.
You are trying to imply, you are saved, so though the judgement will be harsh your soul will
be saved. And I will say amen if you retain faith in Christ to the end.

Now after seeing how our personalities run through all we do, I would suggest putting to one
side mental illness our response will be consistent to our faith.

For me the whole issue is about presumption and understanding. I am not a rebellious son
forcing my way in because at some point I saw Christ, but I am a child of God walking in the
Spirit and in the right obedience of God, the fruit of His spirit bringing good works to bare.
I have faith in the cross and my Lord to forgive my failures and deem me righteous.

How this works is not something I understand except I trust His work in my heart and His
leading.

But for some it appears they look for exceptions rather than resting in love and acceptance,
to trust the Lord will lead us through and put all in His hands.

People please listen. This is the root of all religion all over the world. As long as I AM righteous. I will make it.. If I have more good works than I have bad works, I will be ok. If I am super duper good. Then I will not only make it to heaven but get all these amazing gifts to go with it.

In fact, this is why it is so easy to get people to commute murder by suicide, Find the one who are close to 50/50 or who will never make it, Prtomise them eternal life based on martyrdom, and they will gladly kill themselves to kill the infidel.

This is a lie. It is what Satan wants you to think. When anyone stands before God. They will stand either saved, having all their sin washed away by7 the cross. Or condemned, having to live by their on works (each one was judged according to their work, And the final book was opened, the book of life" WHoever was not written in it was cast to outer darkness.

All of your good deeds will not help you spend one second in heaven, let alone an eternity. If you wish to stand based on how well you do on this earth. How righteous you think you are. I beg of you. Repent. Get on your knees, Beg for God to expose the truth to you. Expose your pride. And tear it down. Ask for his mercy, for he freely gives it to you. And he will save you. Call out to him, and he will save you,. And he will make changes in your life you will not believe.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Your fingers had a serious brain fart, EG.. ovdercommers.. LOL

How can people listen to themselves. and not see the damage their belief makes.

We are ovdercommers, We are victorious in christ.

But we may fall away.

That's not overcoming and victory. that is defeat.. Thats like winning a small battle and having a party because you overcame the enemy and were victorious. only to have the enemy counter attack and completely destroy you.

Where is your victory? Who did you overcome? You did nothing..

only in this case, We are claiming to be overcome and victorious in Christ. only to have CHRIST fail to achieve complete victory.