Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[PeterJens]

Your right.....the following bolded is a prime example......

You just contradicted yourself in the bolded.....wow....man you take the cake for contradiction....shakes head.....cannot believe some of the stuff you say.......

Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people

God had made them through Christ Holy.

You absolutely take the cake!

dc - language is just that, it does not define truth.

Imputed righteousness is a neat trick, but in the end, it does not work.
Christ opens a door to a relationship, faith, trust which is the basis of
our righteousness. As long as this relationship is alive we are alive.

We have a fatal flaw, we are born without God, in rebellion, isolated and
alone. I do not expect you to understand, but Jesus is everything, the key,
the answer, the unlocking of the heavenlies. Jesus says if you understand,
if you see, He opens everything to His people.

But one has to see it, to experience it and know it.
Now to your world, it is a contradiction, to mine it is perfect sense.
The Lord has always been about behaviour and why, seeing things as they
are and then putting everything in its place, without compromise.

It is why the pharisees did not understand Jesus or the principles and it appears
neither do you.

God bless you, and I wish you well.
Unless I can speak to your heart, there is not anything I can really say that
has value, I am sorry.

 

[zone]

Imputed righteousness is a neat trick, but in the end, it does not work..

Philippians 3:9
I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.

Romans 4
…2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.…

 

[dcontroversal]

Philippians 3:9
I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.

Romans 4
…2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.…

AMEN ZONE.....was gonna fire a few scriptures, but decided not to argue with the proverbial fence post!

 

[zone]

AMEN ZONE.....was gonna fire a few scriptures, but decided not to argue with the proverbial fence post!

that's what pelagianism looks like.

 

[wsblind]

Imputed righteousness is a neat trick, but in the end, it does not work.

Did sin/condemnation come into mankind by one mans sins? Was our condemnation imputed to us at birth?Or did we have to be taught how to sin, and sin ourselves to be condemned?

Sin was imputed to us by one man(Adam.) Righteousness is imputed to us by one man(The Lord Jesus Christ.)

New American Standard Bible
For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly.
Prov 15:14

Jesus is our teacher through the Holy Spirit.

Teachers teach, pupils learn and do.

Some seem to believe teachers do and pupils rest.

Sounds like the school of the lazy.

Its really just the elementary teachings and no one moves on from there. At the most a genuine faith in Jesus is a true love for Jesus. We surrender our hearts to him and in obedience follow the Spirit. What are we following? Jesus's teachings and commands, the word of God.

So many people do not see that the outcome of a genuine believer will be a disciple who listens to the teachings of his teacher. Not for self gratification but because the student can see it to be wise to imitate the teacher.

We can not ignore the scriptures warning us to not fall away. It is wonderfully true that one who remains in the vine is sealed unto the day of redemption.

If we dont continue in the renewing of our minds we can be led astray to believe false demonic doctrines, teachers, or believe we can sin because we no longer are held to sin. Or believe in that we are secured and can live however we want. This contridicts every warning to the believers.

We do not become puppets to the Spirit, we become bondservents denying ourselves to follow in obedience to bring glory to one and only God

 

[PeterJens]

Did sin/condemnation come into mankind by one mans sins? Was our condemnation imputed to us at birth?Or did we have to be taught how to sin, and sin ourselves to be condemned?

Sin was imputed to us by one man(Adam.) Righteousness is imputed to us by one man(The Lord Jesus Christ.)

New American Standard Bible
For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:19

Adam walked with God, had communion, and ultimately had life.
When Adam fell, this communion was broken, and death came to him and all his children
to be born separate and in rebellion against God. This separation and rebellion demonstrates
itself in sinful acts, which are inevitable. Our state at birth means we inherit this rebellion.

In Jesus we have access to reconciliation and communion with God, the forgiving of sin
and the cleansing of our hearts. We are made righteous, literally and empowered to walk
in this communion. Without communion we will spiritually die.

The states we enter are the states we are or we become. This is not imputed, this is
the reality.

Pelagianism is the belief by choice of the will we can become righteous, which is not
what I am saying. Only in communion with God are we righteous, because His very
presence empowers the love that flows through our hearts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

On judgement day what will stand between you and God?

The blood of Christ.

When God looks down on the mercy seat, He will not see the stone tablets, The rod that budded, or the manna (sybolising all the things God has against me, and condemn me) he will see the blood sprinkled on the mercy seat. that blood of redemption that set me free, and allows Gods justice to be satisfied completely (justification)

for you, Yeah, I guess you will have your works, Good luck with that..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It was the best he could do after getting nailed in a completely ridiculous contradiction......

I have noticed, when people have to spend alot of time defending themselves because they believe in things which are not true, They come up with these things which utterly make no sense to anyone but themselves.

In fact, I am quite sure I have done that many times myself..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your right.....the following bolded is a prime example......

You just contradicted yourself in the bolded.....wow....man you take the cake for contradiction....shakes head.....cannot believe some of the stuff you say.......

Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people

God had made them through Christ Holy.

You absolutely take the cake!

I am looking at that and his drivers education comment, And wondering, Is that dumb, or dumber?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Philippians 3:9
I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.

Romans 4
…2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.…

How can one state equivocally they are not trying to earn salvation, and demand we are slandering him, Then come out and say we are not saved by imputed righteousness, But because of our own righteousness?? I do not get it.

 

[gb9]

How can one state equivocally they are not trying to earn salvation, and demand we are slandering him, Then come out and say we are not saved by imputed righteousness, But because of our own righteousness?? I do not get it.

I don't think the person posting these things gets it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think the person posting these things gets it.

Many of us did not get it at one time, But we have found the light, We have to pray he sees the light soon.

 

[Grace777x70]

The natural humanistic D. I. Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset that all of us can have to some degree will always find the righteousness of Christ and the gospel of the grace of God shown in Christ as a stumbling block. They will always be antagonistic against living by grace through faith in Christ's work alone on the cross and resurrection.

They will always be trying to accomplish by what "they do or don't do" for what "Christ has already done for us". They live by a works-based righteousness which is a fruit of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Paul didn't say that people in these last days would be anti-God - he said that they would be anti-Christ. Being anti-Christ is living from our own will-power and flesh and thinking if we mimic God then we will have His quality of life and be accepted by Him.

We can give lip service to grace and faith but the reality is we have just created a religion which is no different than any other religion of the world which says - do good and you'll get good. Do bad and you'll get bad. The grace of God in Christ speaks of better things. The blood of Jesus speaks of better things.

The grace of God in Christ operates from His perspective and wants us to eat of the tree of life which is Christ Himself and not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which is the world's system of living.

We can trust Christ's life in us to transform us as be behold Him and people will see the fruit of His life being manifested in us. The world doesn't need another religion that uses the name of God or Jesus - they need to experience the true grace and love that our Father has for them. Depending on Christ inside of us will bear His fruit in our lives for others to see the goodness and love of God for them.

 

[PeterJens]

How can one state equivocally they are not trying to earn salvation, and demand we are slandering him, Then come out and say we are not saved by imputed righteousness, But because of our own righteousness?? I do not get it.

Imagine I say I will only accept a pure spotless car to buy.
Someone comes along with a rubbish car with everything shot to pieces but with a note
saying the spotless car says it is ok.

I still have a rubbish car that I will reject.

Now to say the bill for repair has been paid in full, and the rubbish car has been made
completely spotless then ofcourse I am happy, because I have a spotless car.

Now imputed righteousness is the rubbish car analogy, but it fails at the first step.

Jesus gave the analogy of wheat, the precious corn and the chaff.
The corn is the heart of someone remade, purified and made whole in love and with love
pouring out. It is this that the Lord is talking about,

The chaff is just the show, the outer coating, the appearance, the stuff we do and say
and the protection of the inner being and heart of a person.

We cannot make our hearts pure, or bring about birth from heaven, but we are involved
in purification and cleansing, sowing and walking in obedience. These are all part of the
remaking and rebuilding that is needed.

Now for those who know no progress or see the hearts as a place they do not go, all this
language appears meaningless. I speak for those who know this reality inside themselves
and desire to know the Lord like this. Jesus promises for those who open the door He will
come in and eat with them.

So our righteousness is that which Christ builds within us, but it is not imputed.

 

[PeterJens]

The blood of Christ

The blood of Christ forgives our sins and cleanses us, makes us new.
So as a sinner you cannot claim the blood, because your life testifies against you that
you did not get cleansed, you did not walk in the ways of Christ, and knew nothing of
His saving grace and love flowing from within cleansing you.

This analogy is like saying I have not repented and got myself straight but I know Christs
blood is meant to do this, so it can be done now, so I will enter heaven.

But it will be too late, and in reality this believer never believed which is why they are still
a mess and still relying on being cleansed in the future.

It is why I started the thread on being Holy to be saved.
If you are not Holy you are not saved. Salvation is about being cleansed and forgiven and
why we rejoice on coming to faith, we are free, we are overcomers, no longer held prisoner.
We are clean, pure and Holy. But for some here maybe they have never experienced this,
or even believe it.

 

[PeterJens]

The power of Christ is love, expressed through the cross

Love is the spring of living water that comes from within and never stops.
It is this love that empowers the fulfillment of the law, through loving our neighbour.

Those who do not see this, or experience it, find this reality hard to grasp.
Their hearts are tightly defended and they accuse those who know this love to be
swayed only by emotion and not facts. The facts are Christ has saved them, and
loved them, and they are as they are, saved but still sinning.

I know this world because it is the world of religion, belief that overcomes the failure
of behaviour or emotional blocks to do what one wants, but repeating situations one
does not want. It always leads to hypocracy and appearing to be one thing while being
another. You really do need Christ at a heart level.

It is why the Lord expects real heartfelt repentance, to the depths of our beings.
It is the hardest thing any person can ever do, and everything within us fights against
it, pride, anger, hurt, pain, mind, soul, body. But it is the way of salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Imagine I say I will only accept a pure spotless car to buy.
Someone comes along with a rubbish car with everything shot to pieces but with a note
saying the spotless car says it is ok.

I still have a rubbish car that I will reject.

Now to say the bill for repair has been paid in full, and the rubbish car has been made
completely spotless then ofcourse I am happy, because I have a spotless car.

Now imputed righteousness is the rubbish car analogy, but it fails at the first step.

Jesus gave the analogy of wheat, the precious corn and the chaff.
The corn is the heart of someone remade, purified and made whole in love and with love
pouring out. It is this that the Lord is talking about,

The chaff is just the show, the outer coating, the appearance, the stuff we do and say
and the protection of the inner being and heart of a person.

We cannot make our hearts pure, or bring about birth from heaven, but we are involved
in purification and cleansing, sowing and walking in obedience. These are all part of the
remaking and rebuilding that is needed.

Now for those who know no progress or see the hearts as a place they do not go, all this
language appears meaningless. I speak for those who know this reality inside themselves
and desire to know the Lord like this. Jesus promises for those who open the door He will
come in and eat with them.

So our righteousness is that which Christ builds within us, but it is not imputed.

actually You just once again proved you teach a works based salvation. (see bolded highlighted section) Those are things you are doingn to help God make you righteous YOUR WORKS..

news flash, God does not need your help..

It is YOUR righteousness you are going to take to God and demand God receive,

News flash, Your car has defects (You), God will not excet a car that has any defect in it whatsoever, It must be perfect. completely.

Good luck taking your defective car to judgment day.. And thinking God will accept it.

 

[Grace777x70]

actually You just once again proved you teach a works based salvation.

It is YOUR righteousness you are going to take to God and demand God receive,

News flash, Your car has defects (You), God will not excet a car that has any defect in it whatsoever, It must be perfect. completely.

Good luck taking your defective car to judgment day.. And thinking God will accept it.

I agree. What some believe here in CC is obviously a works-based self-righteousness that use the name of Jesus but in reality they are denying the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.

Righteousness is received by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection alone.

They stumble in their own works-based belief system which is a self-righteousness based on what they do or don't do.

Righteousness to them is based on them and it is an anti-Christ belief system that denies Christ Himself and His work for us.

All works-based mindsets which are really a product of the world system acting exactly like the Jews thought - if they kept the law of Moses - then they will be righteous.

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[gb9]

actually You just once again proved you teach a works based salvation. (see bolded highlighted section) Those are things you are doingn to help God make you righteous YOUR WORKS..

news flash, God does not need your help..

It is YOUR righteousness you are going to take to God and demand God receive,

News flash, Your car has defects (You), God will not excet a car that has any defect in it whatsoever, It must be perfect. completely.

Good luck taking your defective car to judgment day.. And thinking God will accept it.

and also, God is not going to care if you really, strongly, emotionally , FEEL that your defective car is pure and clean. facts, not feelings, determine reality.