Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[PeterJens]

What is a specific example of a believer stepping out of the way?

Commiting sin and not repenting of it, being unloving to people around them,
abandoning scripture, the word, church and fellowship with believers, no longer
praying or holding any faith in God. I have seen all these in people.

 

[PeterJens]

So what happens if we no longer believe?

I find this question interesting.

If you no longer believe known of the promises work because they are dependent
on faith.

The time dilation principle applies here I think for time travellers, God takes the
believers soul when the believed so as long as at some point in their life they
believed that is good enough !!!!!!!

This is how they treat business insurance policies which only apply if you pay
the premiums expect these guys expect help when the policy has died and gone
and there is no commitment to being safe and true anymore.

If they were the insurance company they would pay out nothing

 

[Sully]

Commiting sin and not repenting of it, being unloving to people around them,
abandoning scripture, the word, church and fellowship with believers, no longer
praying or holding any faith in God. I have seen all these in people.

And have you ever sinned and neglected to repent? Ever? like in the last 24 hours? Are you sure?

 

[Grace777x70]

Or you too will be cut off is a bold statement and those who have fallen had to fall from something.

Thank you for the concernment and i only feel so inclined to say these things because I see it all over scripture and I see what geniune faith should be.

We can proclaim Jesus is Lord until we are blue in the face but in less our life has the evidence of the work of the Lord in us, we would expect to hear Jesus say go away I never knew you.

I have people near a dear to me who are turning away. I see it in church sometimes. Jesus told us in the end times this will happen.

Its just not logical to tell someone oh your saved now and forvever and your sins oh yah those are good now too. So if you sin you dont have to repent just keep living brother because your free. I wonder how many Calvinists take advantage of that.

Or my favorite no one can fall away that is a true believer. Well thats great but what of the ones who truly believed for years and fell away. Not many people except Jesus and not felt called to do so.

My preacher was just telling us the other day of preachers who he had known preached for years but what came to lighr was they no longer believed in what they taught.

They told the board they was too old to find a new Job.

The gospel is not "logical" that's why Paul says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. After hearing the message of Christ - we believe and then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

My brother - you really need to hear the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work. It'll change your life and contrary to what works-based believers think - the grace of God teaches us to live godly and righteously in this present world.

You will fall in love so deeply with the Lord effortlessly and the Father will become more real to you. You will live a life holier in outward behavior more then you ever thought was possible and you will know that you are safe in the Lord Jesus because of Him - not what we do or don't do.

With security comes maturity just like any other relationship.

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


Eternal means eternal - not conditional life. Believe the gospel of the good news of what our loving Lord has done for us.

Anyway I am off to bed. Bless you and I encourage you to ask the Lord tonight about all this grace stuff and just what is the gospel message.

It'll take some time for the Lord to work around our religious strongholds that we have in our minds but He will be faithful to reveal Himself to us.

 

[PeterJens]

And have you ever sinned and neglected to repent? Ever? like in the last 24 hours? Are you sure?

This is the legalistic answer. Walking with Christ is about a relationship and love not
a rule book. The rule book helps identifying problems and resolving them.

I am in communion with Christ, cleansed, whole and complete.

What you do not understand, like in a marriage there is a big difference between
an argument and filing for divorce, or thinking about issues between the two of you
and commiting adultery.

What I am very aware of is how insecure many believers are and how little they
understand the faith or Christ or love itself. It is all about knowing everything is
ok not walking in the heart of God and love.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Some believe that they must do something else other then believe the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ "in order" to stay saved. That's a perversion of the gospel of Christ.

The process for salvation is simple. Hear the message of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - believe it and then we receive the forgiveness of sins and we are sealed with the Holy spirit of which Jesus said would be with us and in us forever - unless He is lying to us.

I don't believe Jesus is a liar. I'm a believer in His finished work on the cross and resurrection and that I too died with Him on that cross and was raised up and I am now a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. I encourage you and others to be a believing believer too.

You are NOT your own savior by what you do or don't do. That is a perversion of the true gospel and it is a gospel of self-works and it has an appearance of good but it is not the gospel.

We do have one choice. To believe or not. Remain in faith or endure in faith and thats the saving faith.

I see no where in scripture Jesus saying and if you dont remain in me you will be fine and only have no rewards in heaven.

We have words like fire, darkness, knashing of teeth, pit. Faith is in continuance not a one time thing and we are good.

Surrendering to Jesus is an act of obedience. Obedience to what? To follow him. Ane become more like Christ everyday. As Christ in our surrendering shapes us to be more like him.

If were honest we do not become robots in the Spirit but God still honors our free will to choose. Choose him or the lier in our minds.

Nothing we can do other than choose to surrender to Jesus. That faith is all we need.

 

[wsblind]

So what happens if we no longer believe?

The sin unto physical death, a miserable existence, divine discipline,loss of rewards and SHAME at the Bema seat.

But salvation is secure. We will be saved as if through fire because we didn't advance in the Christian way of life in time.

 

[stonesoffire]

The gospel is not "logical" that's why Paul says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. After hearing the message of Christ - we believe and then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

My brother - you really need to hear the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work. It'll change your life and contrary to what works-based believers think - the grace of God teaches us to live godly and righteously in this present world.

You will fall in love so deeply with the Lord effortlessly and the Father will become more real to you. You will live a life holier in outward behavior more then you ever thought was possible and you will know that you are safe in the Lord Jesus because of Him - not what we do or don't do.

With security comes maturity just like any other relationship.

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


Eternal means eternal - not conditional life. Believe the gospel of the good news of what our loving Lord has done for us.

Anyway I am off to bed. Bless you and I encourage you to ask the Lord tonight about all this grace stuff and just what is the gospel message.

It'll take some time for the Lord to work around our religious strongholds that we have in our minds but He will be faithful to reveal Himself to us.

I still can't rep you grace, but this post deserves even more than one!

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

This is how
we know that
we love the
children of God: by
loving God and
carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2

Now walking in the way is not a option
it is the only way.

What is a specific example of a believer stepping out of the way?[/QUOTE]



An example would be someone who insults a person and then turns around and says "I praise God". Just like James talks about.

James 3:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.

 

[Sully]

This is the legalistic answer. Walking with Christ is about a relationship and love not
a rule book. The rule book helps identifying problems and resolving them.

I am in communion with Christ, cleansed, whole and complete.

What you do not understand, like in a marriage there is a big difference between
an argument and filing for divorce, or thinking about issues between the two of you
and commiting adultery.

What I am very aware of is how insecure many believers are and how little they
understand the faith or Christ or love itself. It is all about knowing everything is
ok not walking in the heart of God and love.

I asked a simple question. You gave me mini dissertation, but no answer.

 

[stonesoffire]

So what happens if we no longer believe?

2Ti 2:13 Our faith may fail, his never wanes—That's who he is, he cannot change!

 

[Grace777x70]

So what happens if we no longer believe?

So, this implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?

We believe in the heart - not in the head. People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick. This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6;17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ. It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.

No, my brother - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit.

I know you have a good heart for the Lord and I really encourage you to ask the Lord about these things. Good night...

 

[zone]

This is the legalistic answer. Walking with Christ is about a relationship and love not
a rule book. The rule book helps identifying problems and resolving them.

I am in communion with Christ, cleansed, whole and complete.

What you do not understand, like in a marriage there is a big difference between
an argument and filing for divorce, or thinking about issues between the two of you
and commiting adultery.

What I am very aware of is how insecure many believers are and how little they
understand the faith or Christ or love itself. It is all about knowing everything is
ok not walking in the heart of God and love.

peter for such a sensitive guy, you don't hear people telling you that many of your posts are arrogant.

 

[wsblind]

I asked a simple question. You gave me mini dissertation, but no answer.

And you will get another mini dissertation to answer the no answer.

 

[Sully]

And you will get another mini dissertation to answer the no answer.

I honestly think if examined the inability to answer that question may set a person free.

 

[wsblind]

I honestly think if examined the inability to answer that question may set a person free.

I would concur.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I asked a simple question. You gave me mini dissertation, but no answer.

He gave you an answer but probably not the answers you like so when we dont like something we revert to saying oh this is dissertation.

It doesnt matter how much evidence and scripture we post and make every effort to reasearch it and make sure its in context. I wonder why others who believe different than Calvinism stay on this site. I mean if your not Calvinist the same group of people join together to do one thing. To make you look like your evil or confused.

I have spent hours typing and studying scriptures to post them just for many to ignore it and pick on the easy targets.

I just pray readers are not led astray.

 

[Sully]

He gave you an answer but probably not the answers you like so when we dont like something we revert to saying oh this is dissertation.

It doesnt matter how much evidence and scripture we post and make every effort to reasearch it and make sure its in context. I wonder why others who believe different than Calvinism stay on this site. I mean if your not Calvinist the same group of people join together to do one thing. To make you look like your evil or confused.

I have spent hours typing and studying scriptures to post them just for many to ignore it and pick on the easy targets.

I just pray readers are not led astray.

i'm not a Calvinist. Can you tell me what the answer to my question was?


"And have you ever sinned and neglected to repent? Ever? like in the last 24 hours? Are you sure?"

 

[wsblind]

I wonder why others who believe different than Calvinism stay on this site.

Because Calvinism is a hindrance to His Gospel. And I would like to advance His Gospel. So I stay.

Same with Arminianism. They hinder and hide the Gospel from unbelievers, so I stay to advance His Gospel.

 

[dcontroversal]

I can see both points being made.

Christ is going to have the only man made things in Heaven.........His scars and being true humanity forever.

When He looks at us, it is true that we are seen as clean as snow,because of His righteousness. But He will forever carry those scars, and be true humanity for eternity.

I am not real sure about the last point....the whole point of Revelation is that this is Jesus and he is God....He disrobed himself of glory and came to be flesh for the suffering of the cross, but did he not take back his glory and sits as God on the throne now in heaven?