Not By Works

dcontroversal · Apr 7, 2017

BLAH BLAH BLAH...Nice try to assume and accuse...none of the se verses have bearing on what I believe.....you must be deaf or blind as I have not indicated that I never serve or work pal....only that works have zero to do with biblical salvation....which is based upon faith VOID of works...to add works makes a gospel of a different kind, double cursed and no power to save....

Good luck boasting on your works based working for false ideology.....

dcontroversal · Apr 7, 2017

PeterJens said:

If you are going to quote me, quote the whole quote and I must say that to quote me the way you did and then post something to make is say I am saying what you said is true is a lie, false and contrary to the truth...You have proven your deceptive satanic approach by this post pal.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

the contention is and seems to always be that many will say that without works one cannot be saved, keep salvation and or remain saved.....Works do not save, keep saved and or help one be saved....the following is absolutely true....

dcontroversal · Apr 7, 2017

slave said:

Amen ! But I had a punch in my stomach (Spiritually) when I heard (C), and parts of (B). I see you have a great view on Salvation, and I am with you on that. But I am not with you on the issue of Sin, and our ability to be steadfast thru all circumstances to remain pure thru Christ Jesus. In Romans 6:6 I see a verse that tells me I can conquer my sins as Christ lives to empower me to DO so. Jesus' role will never be to bandage our weaknesses but to make us more than conquerors.

We know this: Whatever we used to be with our old sinful ways has been nailed to the Cross. So our entire record of sin has been canceled, and we no longer have to bow down to sin's power. Romans 6:6. This is Salvation, what I referred to as innocence made opportunistic! And, as long as we remain in Him, and His Words remain in us...that "sinful ways" category is His fight now. I got punched in my Spiritual stomach with answer (C). because to not be seen doing good works it is evidence of not being His for He wants us to be apart of His purposes and intentions over our own, keeping in mind, He is the Way, the Truth, and the life whom only gives use His best. Even, commanding us to venture on beyond our "good enough's."

So, it is then : Co-crucifiction. Have you made the following decision about sin - that it must be completely killed in you? Hey, it takes a long time to come to the point of making this complete and effective decision about sin. It is, however, the greatest moment in your life once you decide that sin must die in you - not simply be restrained, or suppressed, or counteracted, but crucified - just as Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world. No one can bring anyone else to this decision, and until we experience the New Life, we will not be able to make this decision. Dc, my prayers are with you and all in this room whom want to find the full measure of God's grace, in order that His full measure of glory can be seen.

Pull yourself up, take some time alone with God, and make this important decision, saying, “Lord, identify me with Your death until I know that sin is dead in me.” Make the moral decision that sin in you must be put to death.
This was not some divine future expectation on the part of Paul, but was a very radical and definite experience in his life. Are you prepared to let the Spirit of God search you until you know what the level and nature of sin is in your life— to see the very things that struggle against God’s Spirit in you? If so, will you then agree with God’s verdict on the nature of sin— that it should be identified with the death of Jesus? You cannot “reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin” (Romans 6:11) unless you have radically dealt with the issue of your will before God.
Have you entered into the glorious privilege of being crucified with Christ, until all that remains in your flesh and blood is His life? “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me…” (Galatians 2:20).

Whatever....what I said is true, backed with biblical truth regardless of who disagrees or gets a punch in the stomach......

PAUL was clear with a thorn in the flesh being dealt to keep us or him from being exalted without measure.....and the word is clear when it comes to being holy and the holiness of Christ applied to all believers........a saint in Christ is a HOLY ONE.....which is what saint means....!

PeterJens · Apr 7, 2017

valiant said:

Here is the problem. The differences are emphasis and interpretation. Same words read
different ways. Which version is taken is based on peoples experience and emotional bias.

You claim salvation, knowing God is God doing everything, yet somewhere along the line
choice and taking steps are involved. So my friend, whether you like it or not, we are
involved. And the whole point of salvation is to be co-heirs with Christ.

Listen to the words. co-heirs, the same as, equal in standing, one with, friends, brothers
with the living God. And God exercises free will, judgement, love, justice, truth etc.

Now to have a relationship on this basis, means literally we choose. Do you comprehend
how glorious a salvation the King has called us to? That we lost, blind sinners, should be
called friends of the King of Kings, the rejected, the refuse of society, the lame, the blind,
the stupid and made fun of, the weak, the destitute and the despised, brought into the
throne room of the creator of the universe.

And you ask are we involved? If we were not involved we would not be saved, because it
is this life, this liberty, this power with freedom that overcomes that is everything. And yes
if we get a taste it can go to our heads, it can make us believe we know more than we do,
for we are still bounded by mortality, and physical limitations, and what we are.

And it is all there, which is why the apostles went to their deaths rejoicing that the King had
chosen them worthy to share in His sufferings. The bounds of life turned upside down because
you see He is the King, at His name every knee shall bow, in heaven, on earth and under the earth
and every tongue confess that He is Lord, to the glory of God the Father, Amen.

PeterJens · Apr 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

So you repeat my quote of you, and say I am making a "deceptive satanic approach"

You proved my whole point, by saying though I believe in salvation by faith in Christ
which shows itself through good works as fruit you cause division and accuse me of
being satanic. You are out of control, condemning apparently your own people.

By saying this you condemn yourself equally. You have to be very careful how you
condemn and who you condemn or else you end up condemning the work of the King
and dooming yourself. No man is all knowing and our hearts easily get carried away.

The Holy Spirit encourages us to rest in Him and wait for the fruit to show itself
in people lives and they will reap what they have sown.

Purity of the heart is the way to find clarity of judgement and help brothers and sisters
take the log out of their own eyes. Were there is great emotion, then is also often
confusion and clouded vision. So I counsel you to take time out and seek the Lords
face and the foot of the cross for clarity. God bless you.

PeterJens · Apr 7, 2017

A word of advice

If I stand on scripture and my position is just these scriptures, to walk in the Lord
you cannot condemn it, else it is something other than Christ that is speaking and
you are in rebellion.

Years ago when the charismatic movement first started stirring I thought like this
and then I realised it was I that had to humble myself before God, because I did not
know, it was for Him to reveal the foundations of His work. We are servants not the
source and He is the King. So we must always seek Him first and His word because
any of us can equally fall prey to many things, and need our brothers and sisters in
the body to minister and bring the Lords guidance to bear.

dcontroversal · Apr 7, 2017

PeterJens said:

So you repeat my quote of you, and say I am making a "deceptive satanic approach"

You proved my whole point, by saying though I believe in salvation by faith in Christ
which shows itself through good works as fruit you cause division and accuse me of
being satanic. You are out of control, condemning apparently your own people.

By saying this you condemn yourself equally. You have to be very careful how you
condemn and who you condemn or else you end up condemning the work of the King
and dooming yourself. No man is all knowing and our hearts easily get carried away.

The Holy Spirit encourages us to rest in Him and wait for the fruit to show itself
in people lives and they will reap what they have sown.

Purity of the heart is the way to find clarity of judgement and help brothers and sisters
take the log out of their own eyes. Were there is great emotion, then is also often
confusion and clouded vision. So I counsel you to take time out and seek the Lords
face and the foot of the cross for clarity. God bless you.

You know exactly what you did.....all can see how you left off most of my quote and twisted it to appear like I was agreeing with you....anyone who reads it can see exactly you deceptive approach regardless of your attempt to twist it!

slave · Apr 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

1 Peter 1:13-16: 13 So get yourselves ready, prepare your minds to act, control yourselves, and look forward in hope as you focus on the grace that comes when Jesus returns and is completely revealed to you. 14 Be like obedient children as you put aside the desires you used to pursue when you didn’t know better. 15 Since the One who called you is holy, be holy in all you do. 16 For the Scripture says, “You are to be holy, for I am holy.”[a]

This isn't painted on Holiness, it is our oneness to His Holiness, which is real to us as well.

PeterJens · Apr 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

dc - I wish I knew what you are upset about. I take parts out of a quote to focus on them.

Now whatever grievance you have against me, to say I am being statanic etc. is so extreme
as to be laughable. Now I am coming from the camp to know Christ is everything, His cross,
His work in our hearts, we cannot but reflect His work in our lives, yet you paint me an
enemy.

And it is because you want there to be an enemy. Christs ways are all enemies are deluded
distorted sinners who are blind and cannot see the way their emotions and sins have possessed
them beyond their control. All they see is conflict and violence, to overcome by dominance and
put downs.

Jesus died so that we might see His ways. He forces nothing but waits for us to seek and listen
to Him. It is irrelevant to me your accusation, because I just let the Lord and love flow.

We are cleansed by the blood of the lamb, His sacrifice washes us clean. Do your words do this
to my soul, or your complaints bring glory to the Lord most High?

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psalm 23:4

eternally-gratefull · Apr 7, 2017

slave said:

I think it is pretty self evident.

1. Focus on the grace of God, that's will come when Jesus returns.

2. WHile you do this, You will be like obedient children, as we put aside our old selves, and put on the new. I.e., Live Like Christ, Because Christ is our example (holiness)

What it does not say is, Do this, or else you will not be saved.. Salvation is not context here, Sanctification, or Christian growth is..

eternally-gratefull · Apr 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

And a saint, Focused on eternity, out of gratitude and love, learned to grow in grace and love.

But not to get saved or keep it. Like these people preach. But because we ARE SAVED

dcontroversal · Apr 7, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Amen to that and glad you are still in the trenches crackin off 7.65 rounds HAH

eternally-gratefull · Apr 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I will just have to stay out of certain threads..

JIMBO43 · Apr 7, 2017

you know peter I personaly believe that the term works based salvationists has sprung up from satanists looking to use this false ideology of a ways and means to attack the truth of God..

I bet it sprung up from someone who couldnt stand someone being liked for doing the word and works of God..

I cant see where else it has come from because ive research it and found no such doctrin on any of our catholic churches main websites...

Its not there dito... The only thing i have found on one catholic site is something nice which states for those Good souls who feel convicted to make amend by turning away from bad works to do Good works are on the right path..

Its got me scratching my head that Good works could become such a battle ground and become a religous dogma of his truth.. There has to be only one answer and for me the term works based salvationist has to be from satan himself who loves to make people devided so they fall..

naa no way hosay its nerly bedtime and im planning my Good works for tomorrow so get knoted satan..

JIMBO43 · Apr 7, 2017

I guess to some people here just want a reaction you do get people like this..

Ive experianced this first hand tonight only now the law has changed and horrar... The police now no longer arrest people straight away for so called petty crime that gets reported.. instead they bring the two parties together to see if it can be sorted admirally.. befor wasting everybodies time with common sence..

So there i was confronted with someone who says he loves to goad people even tho he has no intensions of following his threat through.. its called false hope.. and as you know the lack of hope in this thread from the die hard paul fans who favor his word more than Jesuses word himself is also false hope if you ask me..

Jesuse word is the direct word of God... where as a lot of Pauls word where is struggles with sin..God doesnt struggle with sin but like pauls teachings God struggles to make him see sence so much so he tells peter to rebuke him...but does paul listen ?...no paul just carries on with his complicated teaching that leaves one scratching his head... my thoughts on this are his teachings are every bit of a struggle as his own struggle with sin..

JIMBO43 · Apr 7, 2017

PeterJens said:

What concerns me is people who believe the same theology, have ended up
attacking others with the same beliefs over an emphasis.

And this emphasis causes one group to spiritually disown the other group.
A spirit of judgmentalism, condemnation and division has been introduced.

And the justification is the issue of what is righteousness and how do we
walk righteously?

This is not about theology but about communion with the Lord and our
practice in our hearts. How you share and encourage your brothers and sisters
speaks louder than you supposed maturity in Christ.

Amen bro

slave · Apr 7, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

No, it doesn't say "do this or else you won't be saved" - your right, that's why I have never said that either..... We live in victory; not to attain it. But what it does say, with boldness, is that we will do His will, because we are saved, and that His will is in opposition to the anti-god Spirit.; and the results therein. That stings if you are unwilling to surrender to God in your body and mind letting Him finish the Work He started in you.

Does this sting you as to what God says, or comfort you? This will depend on you in placement to His will.

limey410 · Apr 7, 2017

PeterJens said:

Jesus did not die so that we might see His ways. His purpose on the cross was to bear the sins of all mankind, for us to be absolutely forgiven of all of our sins. So we can then receive the free gift of Salvation, the eternal life of God, be reconciled to the Creator of the Universe. You minimize His death with a statement like that.

PeterJens · Apr 7, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

It is probably a combination of factors.
In their minds
1. All sin forgiven
2. good works done by believers are good
3. good works done by non-believers evil

Now if faith saves you and good works are the gilt edged stock, non-believers only
have good works of evil to doom them, though they rely on this self righteousness
to gain salvation from God. So the summary is good works salvationists.

Now in their world view we cannot be believers, because we believe you can loose
your faith / salvation therefore we must be by default good works salvationists.

It makes sense if facts are ignored. So to not be convicted about security of faith,
means you have no faith, not your faith is so secure, you do not even look into the future.
Ofcourse you will see heaven and the Lord. Do you say to a loving married couple, do you
worry about divorce because if you do, you are not married is a ludicrous idea, literally.

Sully · Apr 7, 2017

Which sin gets a saved person kicked to the curb? How many different ways can I ask you this question and get some kind of straight answer that is less than one sentence?

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