Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,101
#2,101
truthhurts said:
why don't you tell us ace...you love playing games...so you tell us Can a saved person not produce fruit?
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WHo is playing games? I am not the one trying to hide, and afraid to say what I really believe..



Can a person who has true saving faith, who has truly repented, Who has been born again, sealed by the spirit. Anointed by the spirit. Adopted into Gods family, Made a new creature not ever produce fruit?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There, was that so hard.

So are you going to sit there and hide behind whatever wall your trying to build or answer the question yourself?

Can a person who is saved NOT EVER PRODUCE fruit?
 
V

Veteran

Guest
#2,102
#2,102
eternally-gratefull said:
Can a person who is saved NOT EVER PRODUCE fruit?
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Of course, this is obviously possible --- because Jesus warned about it in John 15:1-8.
He began by saying He was going to be talking about those who were "in Him".
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away" and burns them!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,103
#2,103
Veteran said:
Of course, this is obviously possible --- because Jesus warned about it in John 15:1-8.
He began by saying He was going to be talking about those who were "in Him".
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away" and burns them!
Click to expand...
What did Jesus mean when he said in context. You are already clean because of the word I spoke.. Now abide in me, and I in you, For you can not bear fruit unless you abide in me.

also, cana person can have faith, yet have no works? (fruit is a result of work)

 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#2,104
Feb 24, 2015
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#2,104
BillG said:
Hi Peter,

I never said that teaching makes us righteous.

What I was saying is that if took the teaching of Jesus to mean that we could be sinless then there would have been no need for him to die.

I based that on quote I made in an earlier post





Trust me my friend I have experienced this big time and on a ongoing daily basis.

However I would just like to say that even though I don't want to sin in reality I will.
When I do that does not mean that I am no longer abiding in the vine, I come before say sorry and ask for his help, his pruning plyers and his refining fire.

I hope this clarifies what I ww trying to convey
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Bill, I did not expect anything different from you. I think we understand each other,
and the realities of changes in our lives.

Amen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,106
#2,106
Veteran said:
I'm sorry, but it's been a long time since I did the can-can!
But, I can see you're very good at it.
Click to expand...

Mock much? We all have typos. I never claimed to be perfect.

So I take it you do not have an answer to the obvious question? Can a person who has true faith not have any works??
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,107
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#2,107
eternally-gratefull said:
Mock much? We all have typos. I never claimed to be perfect.

So I take it you do not have an answer to the obvious question? Can a person who has true faith not have any works??
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Faithful-->gold, silver, precious stones<--Daniel, Job, John etc.....
Unfaithful-->wood, hay, stubble<--Fornicator in Corinthian Church, Demas, Saul etc......

Both very much saved, sealed, justified and sanctified spiritually...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,108
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#2,108
eternally-gratefull said:
What did Jesus mean when he said in context. You are already clean because of the word I spoke.. Now abide in me, and I in you, For you can not bear fruit unless you abide in me.

also, cana person can have faith, yet have no works? (fruit is a result of work)
Click to expand...
God said creation speaks....many deny the obvious lessons from creation such as...

a. A apple tree is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts and begins to grow
b. A apple tree takes years of growth and maturity before it produces fruit
c. One piece of fruit is still fruit and an apple tree may produce a single fruit or an abundance of fruit
d. A tree may produce for one year or numerous years and or haphazardly yet will remain an apple tree throughout it's life

Such is the same with believers.....and lest we forget...some...yea many will produce wood, hay and stubble and yet be saved
 
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wsblind

Guest
#2,109
#2,109
Veteran said:
Of course, this is obviously possible --- because Jesus warned about it in John 15:1-8.
He began by saying He was going to be talking about those who were "in Him".
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away" and burns them!
Click to expand...
No It isn't. How many Angels rejoice over one sinner being saved? A believer is going to produce fruit. But there are many who will never SHOW it to another believer.

The Ironic part, there are MANY,MANY believers who produce fruit that go unnoticed by many of us, because our definition of "fruit" is of this world and any unbeliever can do it.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,110
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#2,110
eternally-gratefull said:
AMen, it is about the gospel..

There ate two gospels being taught here, One is not right.. They both will not get people to heaven..

We are not talking about non salvic issues here, we are talking about eternal life.. or eternal death.

It is not a joking matter,, Peoples eternity are at stake here.
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AMEN to this.........and time is short!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,111
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#2,111
wsblind said:
No It isn't. How many Angels rejoice over one sinner being saved? A believer is going to produce fruit. But there are many who will never SHOW it to another believer.

The Ironic part, there are MANY,MANY believers who produce fruit that go unnoticed by many of us, because our definition of "fruit" is of this world and any unbeliever can do it.
Click to expand...
What the "cake takers" and "workers for" fail to understand is that one (1) piece of fruit = bearing fruit.................
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,112
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
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#2,112
wsblind said:
No It isn't. How many Angels rejoice over one sinner being saved? A believer is going to produce fruit. But there are many who will never SHOW it to another believer.

The Ironic part, there are MANY,MANY believers who produce fruit that go unnoticed by many of us, because our definition of "fruit" is of this world and any unbeliever can do it.
Click to expand...
Scripture says and we will know them by their fruit. But your saying many hide their fruit and a fellow believers may not ever see it. Lol what? How does a tree hide its fruit lol. Its evident to others who sees the tree if it has fruit. The tree will have fruit, no fruit, or rotten fruit, not hiding its fruit. A new believer may have no fruit but it shouldn't take very long if that person is truly seeking Jesus to start producing noticeable fruit.

Do you not realize fruit is not only good works but also personality changes too. The way we speak to others is also a sign of what fruit is being produced.
 
S

Sully

Guest
#2,113
#2,113
Roughsoul1991 said:
Scripture says and we will know them by their fruit. But your saying many hide their fruit and a fellow believers may not ever see it. Lol what? How does a tree hide its fruit lol. Its evident to others who sees the tree if it has fruit. The tree will have fruit, no fruit, or rotten fruit, not hiding its fruit. A new believer may have no fruit but it shouldn't take very long if that person is truly seeking Jesus to start producing noticeable fruit.

Do you not realize fruit is not only good works but also personality changes too. The way we speak to others is also a sign of what fruit is being produced.
Click to expand...
Give us a good definition of "fruit" then inspector.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#2,114
Feb 24, 2015
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#2,114
Sully said:
Give us a good definition of "fruit" then inspector.
Click to expand...
Jesus calls fruit grapes or figs. These are sweet and give you water and energy,
they are food for the body.

The analogy was you do not get such fruit from thorn bushes or briars or thistles.
So those who are defensive, rediculously aggressive and all their sharing is about
how you should not be like x group but be happy were you are, is not good fruit.

Wisdom is like the ripest fruit, it invades your soul, illuminates your mind and brings
freedom to a parched land. Jesus and His ways of serving and loving others is such
beauty and truth.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

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#2,115
Feb 21, 2014
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#2,115
RIP, orange tree.. :( LOL


Grace777x70 said:
The other aspect is - what if this orange tree dies for some reason before it has those blossoms or produces mature fruit in the form of an orange. Does this mean it never was an orange tree to begin with? the Maker of the orange tree knows it's identity.

The thief on the cross had no blossoms or full grown fruit and yet he is with the Lord in paradise now.
Click to expand...
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#2,116
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
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#2,116


You most certainly can get fruit from thorn bushes. You get raspberries, blackberries, etc..Those are fruits. :) Ask Depleted about the raspberries--she'll tell you.. lol
PeterJens said:
Jesus calls fruit grapes or figs. These are sweet and give you water and energy,
they are food for the body.

The analogy was you do not get such fruit from thorn bushes or briars or thistles.
So those who are defensive, rediculously aggressive and all their sharing is about
how you should not be like x group but be happy were you are, is not good fruit.

Wisdom is like the ripest fruit, it invades your soul, illuminates your mind and brings
freedom to a parched land. Jesus and His ways of serving and loving others is such
beauty and truth.
Click to expand...
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,117
Sep 17, 2016
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#2,117
Grace777x70 said:
The other aspect is - what if this orange tree dies for some reason before it has those blossoms or produces mature fruit in the form of an orange. Does this mean it never was an orange tree to begin with? the Maker of the orange tree knows it's identity.

The thief on the cross had no blossoms or full grown fruit and yet he is with the Lord in paradise now.
Click to expand...
But wasn't the action of faith to say what the thief said, the first fruit we all produce? And so his heart was sincere at the moment of death. It's all a heart issue. God will know the sincerity of the believer. God knows who truly follows him. The thief's heart was sincere upon death. His act of faith was the very first fruit we produce and then it's up to our perseverance in faith to keep growing and maturing to produce more fruit. After all many start out with lots of fruit but end up quenching and grieving the Spirit that only leads the away from what God wants to do in them.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#2,118
Jan 18, 2011
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#2,118
Roughsoul1991 said:
But wasn't the action of faith to say what the thief said, the first fruit we all produce? And so his heart was sincere at the moment of death. It's all a heart issue. God will know the sincerity of the believer. God knows who truly follows him. The thief's heart was sincere upon death. His act of faith was the very first fruit we produce and then it's up to our perseverance in faith to keep growing and maturing to produce more fruit. After all many start out with lots of fruit but end up quenching and grieving the Spirit that only leads the away from what God wants to do in them.
Click to expand...
correct. God knows who truly follows him. we do not have that degree of knowledge. so we should be very careful about judging other's relationship with the Lord.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

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#2,119
Sep 17, 2016
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#2,119
Sully said:
Give us a good definition of "fruit" then inspector.
Click to expand...
[h=1]Galatians 5:22-23King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

[/FONT]
[h=1]2 Peter 1:5-7New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Matthew 3:8New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
God tells us what to inspect and expect.
[/FONT]
[h=1]John 15New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]The Vine and the Branches[/h][FONT=&quot]15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.[/FONT]
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#2,120
Nov 22, 2015
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#2,120
Roughsoul1991 said:
But wasn't the action of faith to say what the thief said, the first fruit we all produce? And so his heart was sincere at the moment of death. It's all a heart issue. God will know the sincerity of the believer. God knows who truly follows him. The thief's heart was sincere upon death. His act of faith was the very first fruit we produce and then it's up to our perseverance in faith to keep growing and maturing to produce more fruit. After all many start out with lots of fruit but end up quenching and grieving the Spirit that only leads the away from what God wants to do in them.
Click to expand...
Grieving the Holy Spirit does not separate Christ from us. That is a religious teaching that denies the work of Christ and leaves the believer in Christ in fear and it actually does more harm to say that He leaves us then the grieving of Him does. Paul says "Grieve not the Holy Spirit with who you are sealed unto the day of redemption." Eph. 4:30

God gives us a new heart when we believe on Christ - cleansing our hearts by faith. Jesus by the Holy Spirit comes and makes us a new creation. We need to have the basics of the what Christ did on the cross or we end creating a works-based salvation which actually nullifies the very grace from operating in our lives like it should.

This lose your salvation as in being one spirit with the Lord and thus not having eternal life is the worst demonically inspired doctrine that he has put in the mind of man. It completely undermines the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place and it denies the work on Christ on the cross and resurrection and makes it man-centered instead of Christ-centered.

This false doctrine has done more harm to the body of Christ then any other doctrine because it denies Christ's finished wok on the cross and resurrection. It puts the focus on man and not on Christ.

A person believes with the heart and not the mind. The mind can get sick in it's thinking for various reasons. Only God who looks on the heart can say if they person when they heard the message of Christ.

There are warning scriptures for us living in this earth and that can bring death to us. Take up shooting heroin in our arms today and the reality of that will come quickly.

I don't believe Jesus is a liar when He said the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. If we are not cemented in this truth of the gospel - we water down the gospel and make it about us. That's anti-the gospel and actually is denying the Lord and Master that saved us.
 
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