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Do you believe in universal salvation? i.e. Is every single person saved automatically?
If yes, ah! Then I see where your problem is.
If no, the obvious question, what happened to those God did not choose? (Or, for your peace of mind, who did not choose God?)
Because, in this case, I think we believe the same thing, except you seem stuck on ignoring part of the obvious. If God doesn't save "the whole," then he is either a liar, (which we both agree he is not), or he has chosen to let some (most) go to hell, at the very least, and "the whole" cannot mean "every single one of them." (If you go on to the next verses, you find out this is very true.)
The only place we seem to be disagreeing is God isn't merely "letting" them. He's the judge, jury and executioner to their rightful sentence! He did it on purpose!
If yes, ah! Then I see where your problem is.
If no, the obvious question, what happened to those God did not choose? (Or, for your peace of mind, who did not choose God?)
Because, in this case, I think we believe the same thing, except you seem stuck on ignoring part of the obvious. If God doesn't save "the whole," then he is either a liar, (which we both agree he is not), or he has chosen to let some (most) go to hell, at the very least, and "the whole" cannot mean "every single one of them." (If you go on to the next verses, you find out this is very true.)
The only place we seem to be disagreeing is God isn't merely "letting" them. He's the judge, jury and executioner to their rightful sentence! He did it on purpose!
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Actually, that's unfair to those who rejected him. Yes, they did make that choice. We made the same choice though. We loved the darkness. (John 3:18-20.) We do agree on choice here. Man had choice. BUT every single time we chose the darkness! Every. Single. Time!
We then disagree on what changed that. (You think we changed our mind. I think God changed our minds.)
We then disagree on what changed that. (You think we changed our mind. I think God changed our minds.)
Jesus came to set the captives free...and whosoever that believes on him shall not perish.
[FONT="][h=1]Luke 4:18King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,[/FONT]
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[FONT="][h=1]Luke 4:18King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,[/FONT]
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It is in your dog's nature to eat that steak, right?
I get that. Just as it is in our nature to sin.
BUT you can train your dogs to not eat that steak. It will still be in their nature to eat it, but they won't, for you.
God changed the nature of some people in that we no longer want that steak/darkness.
I get that. Just as it is in our nature to sin.
BUT you can train your dogs to not eat that steak. It will still be in their nature to eat it, but they won't, for you.
God changed the nature of some people in that we no longer want that steak/darkness.
I don’t believe in predestination. There is too many places in scripture where God gives people a choice. He gives us all a choice between life and death. It is up to each one of us which choice we will make. We shape our own life and fate with our choice of whether to believe in him and accept him into our lives or not. I don’t think that the outcome is set in stone or that God chooses to save some and not others…He gives us a choice and the outcome is according to our choice. God is not a respecter of persons.
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
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I springboard this.
I pray " Lord keep me,renew me,don't let me miss the rapture" etc.
Even though he promises me his benefits,I pray his word and benefits over me and mine.
We have a partnership. He gave us a vivid,vivid picture of our partnership in marriage. We chose our mate. We both chose,and were chosen.
It is indeed both dynamics fully in play and harmonizing in unison ,each one complimenting the other
I pray " Lord keep me,renew me,don't let me miss the rapture" etc.
Even though he promises me his benefits,I pray his word and benefits over me and mine.
We have a partnership. He gave us a vivid,vivid picture of our partnership in marriage. We chose our mate. We both chose,and were chosen.
It is indeed both dynamics fully in play and harmonizing in unison ,each one complimenting the other
P
Predestination is more than salvation.
Every human on the planet has a calling,an office,a ministry,and a purpose. Sitting at his table is family. I am saved,but he has a purpose beyond his table.
That dynamic adds to the tragedy of one person going to hell.
My God would NEVER choose anyone to go to hell. It CANNOT exist in his nature. Even Judas repented,and was chosen in a devil state of being and mind.
God is way bigger than our conception of him
Every human on the planet has a calling,an office,a ministry,and a purpose. Sitting at his table is family. I am saved,but he has a purpose beyond his table.
That dynamic adds to the tragedy of one person going to hell.
My God would NEVER choose anyone to go to hell. It CANNOT exist in his nature. Even Judas repented,and was chosen in a devil state of being and mind.
God is way bigger than our conception of him
I can’t imagine anyone coming before God with a broken heart asking for forgiveness and to be saved, and God telling them no because he had predestined and chose to send them to hell without giving them any chance for salvation.
That just isn’t the kind of God I serve. He is a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. I know not everyone will be saved, but that is not his will…it’s on each individual person and their own will and choice.
It is not God’s will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
That just isn’t the kind of God I serve. He is a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. I know not everyone will be saved, but that is not his will…it’s on each individual person and their own will and choice.
It is not God’s will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Isaiah 64:6-7 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your name, who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.
Mark 7:20-13 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Jeremiah 17:9-10 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked; who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind,
even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.
Psalms 10:3-4 For the wicked boasts of his heart’s desire;
he blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
Psalms 14:1-3 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.
Psalms 119:155 “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.”
Isaiah 9:13 “For the people do not turn to Him who strikes them, nor do they seek the Lord of hosts.”
Psalm 10:3-4 “For the wicked boasts of the desires of his soul, and the one greedy for gain curses and renounces the Lord. 4 In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him; all his thoughts are, “There is no God.”
Psalm 36:1 “Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes.”
I Corinthians 2:13-14 “These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
John 8:34 "Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin."
II Corinthians 4:4 "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."
Ephesians 2:1-3 "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind."
Colossians 2:13 "And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,"
John 3:16-21 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God.”
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your name, who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.
Mark 7:20-13 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Jeremiah 17:9-10 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked; who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind,
even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.
Psalms 10:3-4 For the wicked boasts of his heart’s desire;
he blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
Psalms 14:1-3 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.
Psalms 119:155 “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.”
Isaiah 9:13 “For the people do not turn to Him who strikes them, nor do they seek the Lord of hosts.”
Psalm 10:3-4 “For the wicked boasts of the desires of his soul, and the one greedy for gain curses and renounces the Lord. 4 In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him; all his thoughts are, “There is no God.”
Psalm 36:1 “Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes.”
I Corinthians 2:13-14 “These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
John 8:34 "Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin."
II Corinthians 4:4 "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."
Ephesians 2:1-3 "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind."
Colossians 2:13 "And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,"
John 3:16-21 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God.”
