Give us these kind of men
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A
Let me lay out carefully what I sought to do in this thread before deciding it was pointless to continue this conversation and only because you asked Lynn.
I watched the video and thought about the questions and how I would have answered...my first post was to show that although I would have answered differently, I would not condemn Osteen based upon his incomplete answer as a false teacher.
Then I attempted to show how I might have answered differently and answer what i thought was the true rebuke in the video: how would Osteen have preached the gospel to people of other religions?
Then I realized the point of the OP was not to answer that question about how to spread the gospel, but to hunt "false teachers in the church"
At that point I lost interest because I would love to talk about how to preach and reach people of other faiths and bring them to the wonderful knowledge of Jesus.
Witch hunting? Not one of the things God has called me to do.
I only feel called to rebuke and judge people who I love as much or more than myself or if I feel God tells me to speak.
Otherwise I trust God to speak for Himself.
I came back to this thread to see if he ever clearly presents the gospel mesaage, but I don't hold my breath. Since he says it's not his point.,, but I ask, what is more important than proclaiming the true gospel?
I watched the video and thought about the questions and how I would have answered...my first post was to show that although I would have answered differently, I would not condemn Osteen based upon his incomplete answer as a false teacher.
Then I attempted to show how I might have answered differently and answer what i thought was the true rebuke in the video: how would Osteen have preached the gospel to people of other religions?
Then I realized the point of the OP was not to answer that question about how to spread the gospel, but to hunt "false teachers in the church"
At that point I lost interest because I would love to talk about how to preach and reach people of other faiths and bring them to the wonderful knowledge of Jesus.
Witch hunting? Not one of the things God has called me to do.
I only feel called to rebuke and judge people who I love as much or more than myself or if I feel God tells me to speak.
Otherwise I trust God to speak for Himself.
I came back to this thread to see if he ever clearly presents the gospel mesaage, but I don't hold my breath. Since he says it's not his point.,, but I ask, what is more important than proclaiming the true gospel?
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Sounds more like, this Lawson feller, is preaching, or teaching to more of the self righteous crowd, then to unbelievers. You might well imagine just how horrified Peter was, when upon his proclamation of love for Jesus, that Jesus' reply to him was: "Yes Peter...But not all of you." We Christians today, are not even CLOSE to a holiness that was even in Peter! So, it should come as no surprise, EXCEPT, for the self righteous believer/s!
Is like the "good shepherd" parable, that is within ALL of believers! Not so much being "content" with the finding of sheep within us, which is what leads to self righteousness, but rather, seeking out, within ourselves, that, or those lost parts (sheep)!! There are more, then most of us have ever been taught, or led to believe!
W
This Lawson feller(Your speaking my language!) IS the self-righteous crowd.
In his quote he is talking to those who "think" they are saved and singles them out.....unbelievers.
Then he goes on to lay out a subjective, rather ambiguous way to their salvation.
If someone doesn't follow his own(Lawsons) self set rules, and doesn't quite make his "plan" of just how much they submit to Christ............they are not saved in Lawson's plan for their salvation.
It is self-righteousness to the core. If you don't submit,follow and have Christ Lord in your life as much as I do......your not really saved.
In his quote he is talking to those who "think" they are saved and singles them out.....unbelievers.
Then he goes on to lay out a subjective, rather ambiguous way to their salvation.
If someone doesn't follow his own(Lawsons) self set rules, and doesn't quite make his "plan" of just how much they submit to Christ............they are not saved in Lawson's plan for their salvation.
It is self-righteousness to the core. If you don't submit,follow and have Christ Lord in your life as much as I do......your not really saved.
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What you sought to do was call names, and lie about a persons Gospel message, and offer slander upon persons for showing the false gospel of Osteen. You then commenced to calling names, slander and frankly lied about the Gospel I preach.
That was your objective, but you're still trying to mop up your mess by not owning up to what you've done.
This thread is for those who love and stand for the truth, so, it isn't for you.
That was your objective, but you're still trying to mop up your mess by not owning up to what you've done.
This thread is for those who love and stand for the truth, so, it isn't for you.
Allow me to reiterate that Paul, Peter, Christ, The OT prophets, Jude among many others, stood and openly rebuked false teachers.
Some of them by their names.
And again, Paul only had one letter wherein he didn't rebuke false teaching and/or false teachers.
What I am gathering, and it is the truth, is that there are several in this thread and forum who would call out the aforementioned as "witch hunters," "negative", "don't preach the Gospel", and "slanderers" for their stance for truth and opposition of false teachers. And that is a fact because they would have to be consistent in their application if what they are saying is true. But it isn't true, they are against biblical mandates.
In fact, you all are calling them this, as they initiated by the Word of God that this is the stance we are to take, and those of us being called this here stand with very, very, very good company.
Here is the bottom line - Osteen is a false teacher, he is in fact a heretic, preaching a bankrupt gospel where he has become rich; 2 Peter 2:3, and preaches nothing less than covetousness, self love and the so-called prosperity gospel.
Therefore, the negative and unbiblical responses to those standing on truth against error such as preached by Osteen and others are the epitome of what it looks like to not endure sound doctrine.
Some of them by their names.
And again, Paul only had one letter wherein he didn't rebuke false teaching and/or false teachers.
What I am gathering, and it is the truth, is that there are several in this thread and forum who would call out the aforementioned as "witch hunters," "negative", "don't preach the Gospel", and "slanderers" for their stance for truth and opposition of false teachers. And that is a fact because they would have to be consistent in their application if what they are saying is true. But it isn't true, they are against biblical mandates.
In fact, you all are calling them this, as they initiated by the Word of God that this is the stance we are to take, and those of us being called this here stand with very, very, very good company.
Here is the bottom line - Osteen is a false teacher, he is in fact a heretic, preaching a bankrupt gospel where he has become rich; 2 Peter 2:3, and preaches nothing less than covetousness, self love and the so-called prosperity gospel.
Therefore, the negative and unbiblical responses to those standing on truth against error such as preached by Osteen and others are the epitome of what it looks like to not endure sound doctrine.
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1, I still don't know what your gospel message is, so don't know if it's true or false.
2. Saying I disagree with your assessment is not slander.
3. I haven't called you a name or slander you. I HAVE called your behavior "witch hunting" which many people besides you like to do. Whether it's justified and approved by God, I have not commented upon.
Merely stated that I am not called by God to be a part of a witch hunt.
4. You basically say you know my motives and no matter what I say, since I don't agree with you, I am wrong.
5. So only those who agree with you "love and stand for the truth"?
Only you have the truth?
You must not own many mirrors....
I was going to read through thread and find out what you believe, but from your response, I can see it would just be a waste of time.
More the fool me, cuz I will probably waste the time.....
2. Saying I disagree with your assessment is not slander.
3. I haven't called you a name or slander you. I HAVE called your behavior "witch hunting" which many people besides you like to do. Whether it's justified and approved by God, I have not commented upon.
Merely stated that I am not called by God to be a part of a witch hunt.
4. You basically say you know my motives and no matter what I say, since I don't agree with you, I am wrong.
5. So only those who agree with you "love and stand for the truth"?
Only you have the truth?
You must not own many mirrors....
I was going to read through thread and find out what you believe, but from your response, I can see it would just be a waste of time.
More the fool me, cuz I will probably waste the time.....
IKR? But, even though you don't know what I preach you went ahead and attacked me for "it" (even though you don't know what "it" is), saying I don't preach the Gospel, then name called and unbiblically slandered me. All of that instead of standing for truth against a vicious, wicked, deceptive false gospel, false preacher and false teacher.
But that's you.
And the thing is, you're unbiblical, I do know that because I'm going by your behavior, words and unbiblical stance.
Paul, God, Christ, the OT Prophets, Scripture, Peter, Jude and more stand against you and your slandering of others for obeying them, and Scripture in exposing false teachers. There is much Scripture that supports and exhorts us to do this.
Like I said, this thread is for those who love and know the truth, and stand against false teachers, so this thread isn't for you.
But that's you.
And the thing is, you're unbiblical, I do know that because I'm going by your behavior, words and unbiblical stance.
Paul, God, Christ, the OT Prophets, Scripture, Peter, Jude and more stand against you and your slandering of others for obeying them, and Scripture in exposing false teachers. There is much Scripture that supports and exhorts us to do this.
Like I said, this thread is for those who love and know the truth, and stand against false teachers, so this thread isn't for you.
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I believe in Lordship salvation.
Before you can be born again, you have to recognize that you are a sinner in need of a savior.
You have to know that you are a dead man walking and without God, there is nothing you can do that is good or worthy of praise.
I like John MacArthur, at least most of what I have read so far.
However, his critics often misrepresent his views.
Before you can be born again, you have to recognize that you are a sinner in need of a savior.
You have to know that you are a dead man walking and without God, there is nothing you can do that is good or worthy of praise.
I like John MacArthur, at least most of what I have read so far.
However, his critics often misrepresent his views.
C
I don't watch Joel Osteen, not my cup of tea. But you know, maybe the guy got cold feet when asked the question. Maybe the guy just really didn't know what to say. Joel is a motivational speaker and when someone is use to speaking a certain way maybe it is like muscle memory and he just couldn't break free from what he normally does.
We don't know Joel's heart at all. Granted he says some off the wall things sometimes and so does his wife. You know what, I think we all can say the same thing. There are so many things that goes on in our lives that we seem to always want to attack the other guy instead of sitting down and looking inward.
If someone has an issue with Joel then I say you pray about it asking for guidance and fast and pray for the guy. If he bothers you that much that is the least you could do for him if you don't agree with him.
We don't know Joel's heart at all. Granted he says some off the wall things sometimes and so does his wife. You know what, I think we all can say the same thing. There are so many things that goes on in our lives that we seem to always want to attack the other guy instead of sitting down and looking inward.
If someone has an issue with Joel then I say you pray about it asking for guidance and fast and pray for the guy. If he bothers you that much that is the least you could do for him if you don't agree with him.
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The video doesn't build a strong case.
I don't worship teachers but believe everything should be tested against what the Bible says, so don't feel a driving desire to expose false teachers.
I would rather focus on learning and clearly speaking the truths God reveals.
The prosperity gospel is wrong and people who preach it are either deceived or seeking to fleece the sheep. I haven't taken the time to see if Joel is 1. Teaching these false gospel or 2. Is a deceived sheep or wolf.
I merely commented on the video and found it lacking and the accusations not to be supported by the "evidence" given in the 5 minute video.
And everyone can see the name calling and over reaction, those statements got...
I don't worship teachers but believe everything should be tested against what the Bible says, so don't feel a driving desire to expose false teachers.
I would rather focus on learning and clearly speaking the truths God reveals.
The prosperity gospel is wrong and people who preach it are either deceived or seeking to fleece the sheep. I haven't taken the time to see if Joel is 1. Teaching these false gospel or 2. Is a deceived sheep or wolf.
I merely commented on the video and found it lacking and the accusations not to be supported by the "evidence" given in the 5 minute video.
And everyone can see the name calling and over reaction, those statements got...
1Jn 4:2 This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God.
1Jn 4:3 But every spirit who does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist. You have heard that he is coming, and now he is already in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Little children, you belong to God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 These people belong to the world. That is why they speak from the world's perspective, and the world listens to them.
1Jn 4:6 We belong to God. The person who knows God listens to us. Whoever does not belong to God does not listen to us. This is how we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.
God Is Love
1Jn 4:7 Dear friends, let us continually love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God.
1Jn 4:8 The person who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:9 This is how God's love was revealed among us: God sent his unique Son into the world so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Dear friends, if this is the way God loved us, we must also love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No one has ever seen God. If we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 This is how we know that we abide in him and he in us: he has given us his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 We have seen for ourselves and can testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 God abides in the one who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, and he abides in God.
1Jn 4:16 We have come to know and rely on the love that God has for us. God is love, and the person who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Jn 4:17 This is how love has been perfected among us: we will have confidence on the day of judgment because, during our time in this world, we are just like him.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear where love exists. Rather, perfect love banishes fear, for fear involves punishment, and the person who lives in fear has not been perfected in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love because God first loved us.
1Jn 4:20 Whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother is a liar. The one who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love the God whom he has not seen.
1Jn 4:21 And this is the commandment that we have from him: the person who loves God must also love his brother.
So these things are not true?
1Jn 4:3 But every spirit who does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist. You have heard that he is coming, and now he is already in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Little children, you belong to God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 These people belong to the world. That is why they speak from the world's perspective, and the world listens to them.
1Jn 4:6 We belong to God. The person who knows God listens to us. Whoever does not belong to God does not listen to us. This is how we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.
God Is Love
1Jn 4:7 Dear friends, let us continually love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God.
1Jn 4:8 The person who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:9 This is how God's love was revealed among us: God sent his unique Son into the world so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Dear friends, if this is the way God loved us, we must also love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No one has ever seen God. If we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 This is how we know that we abide in him and he in us: he has given us his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 We have seen for ourselves and can testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 God abides in the one who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, and he abides in God.
1Jn 4:16 We have come to know and rely on the love that God has for us. God is love, and the person who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Jn 4:17 This is how love has been perfected among us: we will have confidence on the day of judgment because, during our time in this world, we are just like him.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear where love exists. Rather, perfect love banishes fear, for fear involves punishment, and the person who lives in fear has not been perfected in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love because God first loved us.
1Jn 4:20 Whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother is a liar. The one who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love the God whom he has not seen.
1Jn 4:21 And this is the commandment that we have from him: the person who loves God must also love his brother.
So these things are not true?
No offence....but....As a believer you will never see the following two statements and or stances come from me and I personally witnessed "a" from Joel and "b" from his wife
a. To deny Islam is false and leads to hell was a CHOICE with a smile I might add
b. The say that we do not come to church to worship God was a CHOICE with the same smile from his wife
Both of the above are contrary to JESUS and the truth...one who is for JESUS would NOT exhibit such things...and for the record...
ISLAM is not of GOD, leads to HELL and is a false cult
WE assemble to WORSHIP GOD in spirit and in truth
SEE as a believer I had no problem making the above statements.....how about you?
a. To deny Islam is false and leads to hell was a CHOICE with a smile I might add
b. The say that we do not come to church to worship God was a CHOICE with the same smile from his wife
Both of the above are contrary to JESUS and the truth...one who is for JESUS would NOT exhibit such things...and for the record...
ISLAM is not of GOD, leads to HELL and is a false cult
WE assemble to WORSHIP GOD in spirit and in truth
SEE as a believer I had no problem making the above statements.....how about you?
Here's the thing, P4T..... These folks may not all be Osteenites, but they all have one thing in common.
OSAS, Hyp******e, & WOF all do this same one thing..... they are all inclusive of other false doctrines.
They all say "we just differ in beliefs, but we're all christians".
Birds of a feather flock together, & a heretic will always take up for another heretic.
But if they find someone who believes in living by faith, they are calling them every name under the sun, & they're of the devil.
Such inclusion is only one step away from total Universalism. That's where they're all headed.
OSAS, Hyp******e, & WOF all do this same one thing..... they are all inclusive of other false doctrines.
They all say "we just differ in beliefs, but we're all christians".
Birds of a feather flock together, & a heretic will always take up for another heretic.
But if they find someone who believes in living by faith, they are calling them every name under the sun, & they're of the devil.
Such inclusion is only one step away from total Universalism. That's where they're all headed.
A man who knows the bible WOULD NOT SAY SUCH THINGS.....and the INDIA statement takes the cake...they worship 33 gods in INDIA
HER quote below is also as false as one can be.........UNTO HIM be glory in the CHURCH......TRUE Satanism is the worship of SELF and FOR SELF.......
HIS QUOTE
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
AND HER QUOTE....
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy. That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy. So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" (The congregation applauds.)
HER quote below is also as false as one can be.........UNTO HIM be glory in the CHURCH......TRUE Satanism is the worship of SELF and FOR SELF.......
HIS QUOTE
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
AND HER QUOTE....
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy. That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy. So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" (The congregation applauds.)