Give us these kind of men

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#121
#121
Okay this, this would be evidence that Joel Osteen is preaching a false prosperity gospel by misapplying scriptures to people's personal life....

God is saying the same thing to you, "Put down your shields. Put down your swords. You're not going to have to worry, struggle or try to force it to happen." God is going ahead of you. He is going to drive out the inhabitants that are on your land. That means whatever is keeping you from your health, your joy, your abundance, your victory, that's your land. That's what God promised you. I believe, right now, He's beginning to drive them out. You're going to come into your land of health and wholeness! God is driving out sickness and disease. You're coming into your land of increase and promotion! He's driving out struggle and lack. You're going to come into your land of unprecedented favor. So keep standing and believing and watch Him move mightily on your behalf!

https://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/Blog.aspx?blogid=12903
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Took me less than 5 minutes to find.

If someone asked me if I liked Joel Osteen as a teacher?

I would say no. He has a false understanding of the Bible.

If someone asked me if he was saved and a Christian?

I would say, it's not my place to judge another's salvation, but he is walking down the wrong road by teaching the false prosperity gossip.

I still stand that the video, doesn't make a very good or convincing case and those who claim discernment need to learn how to build a stronger and more logical case.

People need to ask themselves:

Are you standing for the truth?

Or are you reacting from hurt pride?

Even Satan sometimes quoted scripture. Discernment is more than knowing the Bible. It involves walking with the Holy Spirit and display the fruit from that relationship.

Anyway, I will leave this thread now since I haven't had my main question answered: what Gospel does p4t, believe?

Maybe he will say in another thread.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#122
#122
dcontroversal said:
A man who knows the bible WOULD NOT SAY SUCH THINGS.....and the INDIA statement takes the cake...they worship 33 gods in INDIA

HER quote below is also as false as one can be.........UNTO HIM be glory in the CHURCH......TRUE Satanism is the worship of SELF and FOR SELF.......


HIS QUOTE

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

AND HER QUOTE....

"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy. That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy. So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" (The congregation applauds.)
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Both quotes would raise a red flag, but could still be supported by scriptures.

I find it more concerning when he preaches things like "God did this for Israel, he promises to do it in your life"

That right there is a lie. He falsely speaks for God and gives people false promises that God did not give them. Then when God doesn't give them wealth, health and victory, people either call God a liar or question His love for them.

When in truth Joel Osteen lied to them.

So if you are going to witch hunt, you should quote what the person actually says and point out how his false promises are lies.

Mainly for love of those who believe the lies and are hurt because they blame God instead of Osteen when the false promises don't become reality.

See I believe there is a place for witch hunting in the church, but I also believe one must not stick a carrot on the nose of every peasant woman and drop her in a lake.

The prosperity gospel reminds me of the false teachings of Jezebel.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#123
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,404
113
#123
Ariel82 said:
Both quotes would raise a red flag, but could still be supported by scriptures.

I find it more concerning when he preaches things like "God did this for Israel, he promises to do it in your life"

That right there is a lie. He falsely speaks for God and gives people false promises that God did not give them. Then when God doesn't give them wealth, health and victory, people either call God a liar or question His love for them.

When in truth Joel Osteen lied to them.

So if you are going to witch hunt, you should quote what the person actually says and point out how his false promises are lies.

Mainly for love of those who believe the lies and are hurt because they blame God instead of Osteen when the false promises don't become reality.

See I believe there is a place for witch hunting in the church, but I also believe one must not stick a carrot on the nose of every peasant woman and drop her in a lake.

The prosperity gospel reminds me of the false teachings of Jezebel.
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DID not even get past the bolded.....NO..not hardly...both points CANNOT be supported by scripture and to say such...speaks VOLUMES
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#124
#124
dcontroversal said:
DID not even get past the bolded.....NO..not hardly...both points CANNOT be supported by scripture and to say such...speaks VOLUMES
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Well...there is your problem, only read two sentences and then react instead of asking for clarification.

1. You could have a discussion about not judging others outside of the faith: Muslims and Hindus., etc that God will judge them.

Of course you could take it farther and say that God will judge them worthy of hell or you could stop there at that God will judge them.

2. God does take joy in our happiness. He loves us and wants us to be joyful.

However, going to church and living our lives should be for God's glory and not our own.

You see taken alone, their statements are half truths. Incomplete, but not outright lies.

Having not read much either preaches, I would not proclaim it false on those statements alone because maybe somewhere else they give the other half of the truth?

So yeah, if you want to help someone who is stuck in the lie of the prosperity gospel. Maybe you can show why scriptures meant for Israel shouldn't be applied to everyone else?

I was thinking of the biblical example of how Israel was defeated when they tried to conquer a people without God's blessing and lost the Ark of the covenant.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#127
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
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#127
Ariel82 said:
Any proof that he ever had the ball?
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Larry King asked him if Jews and Muslims could be saved w/o Christ. I am paraphrasing that, but that's the gist of what he asked. He said he did not know. Srsly? A pastor of a church does not know John 14:6?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#128
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,404
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#128
Ariel82 said:
Well...there is your problem, only read two sentences and then react instead of asking for clarification.

1. You could have a discussion about not judging others outside of the faith: Muslims and Hindus., etc that God will judge them.

Of course you could take it farther and say that God will judge them worthy of hell or you could stop there at that God will judge them.

2. God does take joy in our happiness. He loves us and wants us to be joyful.

However, going to church and living our lives should be for God's glory and not our own.

You see taken alone, their statements are half truths. Incomplete, but not outright lies.

Having not read much either preaches, I would not proclaim it false on those statements alone because maybe somewhere else they give the other half of the truth?

So yeah, if you want to help someone who is stuck in the lie of the prosperity gospel. Maybe you can show why scriptures meant for Israel shouldn't be applied to everyone else?

I was thinking of the biblical example of how Israel was defeated when they tried to conquer a people without God's blessing and lost the Ark of the covenant.
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I disagree.....to say he does not know if ISLAM is wrong and leads to hell is false and her words about not being their to worship GOD but rather for self is false....I can think of numerous scriptures off the top of my head that condemns both statements....

Why defend falsehoods?
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#129
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
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#129
dcontroversal said:
I disagree.....to say he does not know if ISLAM is wrong and leads to hell is false and her words about not being their to worship GOD but rather for self is false....I can think of numerous scriptures off the top of my head that condemns both statements....

Why defend falsehoods?
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Their words from their own mouthes are on youtube. No one misquoted them.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#131
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#131
Here's here heresy one more time...

[video]https://youtu.be/hbZHgGMe31s[/video]
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#132
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#132
Joel Osteen on Larry King Live one more time...


[video]https://youtu.be/KwL1DThtxYg[/video]
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#134
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#134
SovereignGrace said:
Joel Osteen on Larry King Live one more time...


[video]https://youtu.be/KwL1DThtxYg[/video]
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( Put the video link in after clicking on the "film" icon in the toolbar. )


Personally I don't agree with all that any minister or denomination says including Joel.

And I do not personally believe in the so-called prosperity gospel as it is preached by some people.

But here is the other side to the video to see what really happened.


[video=youtube;C9u_QwkBwJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9u_QwkBwJE[/video]
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#135
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
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#135
SovereignGrace said:
Joel Osteen on Larry King Live one more time...


[video]https://youtu.be/KwL1DThtxYg[/video]
Click to expand...

I think you're just pasting the address in the reply box. You have to click the "insert video" icon on the bar above this box, next to last on the right then add it in there.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#136
#136
SovereignGrace said:
Joel Osteen on Larry King Live one more time...


[video]https://youtu.be/KwL1DThtxYg[/video]
Click to expand...
His way is not to judge other's salvation.

In that point I agree with him.

He says he agrees with what the woman says that the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

Again the video clip just shows his unwillingness to become God and judge other's.

He claims to "just state the truth and let God judge"

Does he preach that Jesus is the only way?

Maybe, maybe not.

Does he preach that Muslims or Hindus will be in heaven?

That video clip doesn't show it.

People have jumped to that conclusion, but the evidence is not there.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#137
#137
dcontroversal said:
I disagree.....to say he does not know if ISLAM is wrong and leads to hell is false and her words about not being their to worship GOD but rather for self is false....I can think of numerous scriptures off the top of my head that condemns both statements....

Why defend falsehoods?
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I am trying to show what part of their statement is true and what parts are lies.

Maybe too many words for you to actually read and comprehend?

True or false:

1. God is the ultimate Judge and the only person who can see the hearts of others.

2. God wants us to be joyful.

For me those are true statements.

However they are only partial truths that can lead to lies and misunderstandings if not paired with the truth of

1. How God will judge the world through Jesus
2. How God wants us to find joy in doing His will, not seeking selfish amitions and lusts
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#138
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#138
dcontroversal said:
I disagree.....to say he does not know if ISLAM is wrong and leads to hell is false and her words about not being their to worship GOD but rather for self is false....I can think of numerous scriptures off the top of my head that condemns both statements....

Why defend falsehoods?
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Why defend falsehoods? It's all about the pride of having to be right, not admitting wrong, even when overwhelming proof shows otherwise. The surprising thing, IMO is the lies, then the going against the Scriptural mandate. Unfortunately, Arial is against Scripture here in her attacking those exposing error.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#139
#139
No i am against people falsely misrepresenting others.

If you actually want to help someone break the chain of lies that prop up the false prosperity gospel, you have to help them separate truth from lies.....not throw out more false accusations because your feelings are hurt.

Calling me a liar and proclaiming that I am against scriptures because you say I believe something i dont,...that doesn't make it true. However I doubt you will ever admit to being wrong or that your words are slander.

I am all for exposing errors. Especially If the person who does it also realized that it's a TWO egded sword and uses that sword to cut their own errors away.
 
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#140
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,404
113
#140
Ariel82 said:
I am trying to show what part of their statement is true and what parts are lies.

Maybe too many words for you to actually read and comprehend?

True or false:

1. God is the ultimate Judge and the only person who can see the hearts of others.

2. God wants us to be joyful.

For me those are true statements.

However they are only partial truths that can lead to lies and misunderstandings if not paired with the truth of

1. How God will judge the world through Jesus
2. How God wants us to find joy in doing His will, not seeking selfish amitions and lusts
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You do understand that you can say 99 truths in context and add one lie and it makes the whole statement a lie...SATAN added 1 (one) word to what God had said in the garden and it changed it all into a lie....my point is simple....they both said things that are false, misleading and contrary to the truth..NO where did I judge their salvation, but rather what they said....JESUS, PAUL the prophets ALL warned against false teachers who spread heresy.....Joel Osteen is a prosperity proclaimer and every time I have seen him speak he has said things similar to what I have posted.....it is NOT unbiblical to point out falsities and heresies when they come from public speakers......just as I have seen ALL on here do concerning what other CC posters have posted.....so.....like my Aussie friends say.....whatevzzzz!
 
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