Excellent Excerpt on the Truth of Salvation and the True Gospel
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Ok. I don't think that I have read anything by John Calvin directly. I obviously have heard of his name and the constant battle between calvinism vs. arminianism.
What did Calvin teach that concerns the gospel? Is it this theory that God only wants to save some special "elect" people and others He doesn't want to and has already predestined them to hell?
I agree that God saves the worst of people as the video says. He also saves the best of people that we would view in our own human eyes. To God - they are all needing the life of the Father and that only comes through Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection which we receive by grace through faith alone.
What did Calvin teach that concerns the gospel? Is it this theory that God only wants to save some special "elect" people and others He doesn't want to and has already predestined them to hell?
I agree that God saves the worst of people as the video says. He also saves the best of people that we would view in our own human eyes. To God - they are all needing the life of the Father and that only comes through Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection which we receive by grace through faith alone.
God would have ALL men come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, but such is not the case because men love darkness.....there is a fine line concerning the election and to me boils down to the simplicity that is found in Jesus....The Heavenly Father determined to elect (choose) all who would come to Him in Christ before he cast down the world....if the election was as hard right as some make it then the following verse is moot.
Many are called, but few chosen<--Why would God call someone that he will not elect to salvation?<--James states that the Lord does not upbraid.
The word WHOSOEVER WILL<--this can be applied to the MANY are called, but few chosen verse....
Creation testifies both day and night
Salvation is open to all men<--bolded above
Men have been dealt a measure of faith (the ability to believe) Jesus was without measure and John had it from the womb.
The way is open to all....but only those who exercise saving faith will be saved......
Having said that...God knows the hearts and minds of men and has the unique perspective of being able to see ALL choices that men will make....Hence the words "many are called" and not "all are called"
I suppose at the end of the day God is God and we just do not have all the facts and or his ways are so much higher than our ways and his thoughts than our thoughts.....God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy and he hardens whomsoever he choose to harden.......
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Many are called, but few chosen<--Why would God call someone that he will not elect to salvation?<--James states that the Lord does not upbraid.
The word WHOSOEVER WILL<--this can be applied to the MANY are called, but few chosen verse....
Creation testifies both day and night
Salvation is open to all men<--bolded above
Men have been dealt a measure of faith (the ability to believe) Jesus was without measure and John had it from the womb.
The way is open to all....but only those who exercise saving faith will be saved......
Having said that...God knows the hearts and minds of men and has the unique perspective of being able to see ALL choices that men will make....Hence the words "many are called" and not "all are called"
I suppose at the end of the day God is God and we just do not have all the facts and or his ways are so much higher than our ways and his thoughts than our thoughts.....God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy and he hardens whomsoever he choose to harden.......
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
A
I commented on the video, not the person.
How is that naive?
It's not like I am worshipping the guy or promoting him as Jesus come again.
If you want to turn this thread into a debate about Calvinism, it's your choice.
Nothing in the video warrants if taken at face value and it seems.disrespectful to jump in with accusations and a blunt dismissal, but at the day, it's between you and God,
How is that naive?
It's not like I am worshipping the guy or promoting him as Jesus come again.
If you want to turn this thread into a debate about Calvinism, it's your choice.
Nothing in the video warrants if taken at face value and it seems.disrespectful to jump in with accusations and a blunt dismissal, but at the day, it's between you and God,
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Yes, all in kind, such as Kings and others, not each and every man who has ever lived bro.
Agreed. And those who come to the light are regenerated and no longer love darkness. The unregenerate cannot please God, Romans 8:8; and only those drawn will come; John 6:44.
There is nothing in Scripture suggesting God chose us because we voted for Him, unless you believe grace is earned or merited by behavior. No one makes election "hard right" excepting for those who are against it, deny it and/or do not like the doctrine. God chose us based upon nothing good in us, nor due to anything we would do. If it is because we voted for Him, that would be after He regenerated us, because prior to His intervention we were hostile toward Him - Soli Deo Gloria.
Like MacArthur and others say, we don't have that all figured out. And he's correct. His ways are...
Apples and oranges, those two texts are differing topics bro. I know you are better at 2 Timothy 2:15 than this.
God makes us willing in the day of His power. Note Matthew 11:25-30. Note the context and description of those who come.
As far as we know, yes, but it is limited to the elect, and is according to God's will, not mans choice or will, 2 Timothy 2:8-10.
Romans 12:3 which you allude to is written to believers, not the world at large. John in the womb is a differing thing, as not all men have faith - 2 Thessalonians 3:2. Faith is external, not inherent, Romans 10:17; Acts 3:16; and is via the power of God that raised Christ from the dead, by which power we are enabled to believe, Ephesians 1:19.
The way is open to all....but only those who exercise saving faith will be saved......
God doesn't merit us grace based upon what choices we make. Grace is unmerited.
There you go! Yet He has revealed how He saves, because He chooses based upon nothing we have done or will do.
He is the Savior of all men that is true, but what does it mean? It would have to mean universalism if we took it as above, that is that "He is the Savior of all men!" and left it at that. It needs drawing out.
He was the Savior providentially to all Israel, yet, not all Israel was saved. He is Savior providentially to all men. Savior here is in as far providence, but in a particular way, salvation-wise, He is Savior to those who believe as well which means eternal life.
Agreed. And those who come to the light are regenerated and no longer love darkness. The unregenerate cannot please God, Romans 8:8; and only those drawn will come; John 6:44.
There is nothing in Scripture suggesting God chose us because we voted for Him, unless you believe grace is earned or merited by behavior. No one makes election "hard right" excepting for those who are against it, deny it and/or do not like the doctrine. God chose us based upon nothing good in us, nor due to anything we would do. If it is because we voted for Him, that would be after He regenerated us, because prior to His intervention we were hostile toward Him - Soli Deo Gloria.
Like MacArthur and others say, we don't have that all figured out. And he's correct. His ways are...
Apples and oranges, those two texts are differing topics bro. I know you are better at 2 Timothy 2:15 than this.
God makes us willing in the day of His power. Note Matthew 11:25-30. Note the context and description of those who come.
As far as we know, yes, but it is limited to the elect, and is according to God's will, not mans choice or will, 2 Timothy 2:8-10.
Romans 12:3 which you allude to is written to believers, not the world at large. John in the womb is a differing thing, as not all men have faith - 2 Thessalonians 3:2. Faith is external, not inherent, Romans 10:17; Acts 3:16; and is via the power of God that raised Christ from the dead, by which power we are enabled to believe, Ephesians 1:19.
The way is open to all....but only those who exercise saving faith will be saved......
God doesn't merit us grace based upon what choices we make. Grace is unmerited.
There you go! Yet He has revealed how He saves, because He chooses based upon nothing we have done or will do.
He is the Savior of all men that is true, but what does it mean? It would have to mean universalism if we took it as above, that is that "He is the Savior of all men!" and left it at that. It needs drawing out.
He was the Savior providentially to all Israel, yet, not all Israel was saved. He is Savior providentially to all men. Savior here is in as far providence, but in a particular way, salvation-wise, He is Savior to those who believe as well which means eternal life.
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Well said.
Personally I have more faith that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation then to think that our loving Father has elected people to be saved and elected others to be eternally separated from Him.
It violates the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place and denies the very love, mercy and grace of God towards all people.
The "elect" is Christ Himself and those that He is in become the elect because they are one spirit with Him. Everything starts and finishes with Christ.
Who so ever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Those that believe the gospel become the "elect".
I like this short 6 minute video that makes things so clear. This whole debate on predestination and elect is a useless one in reality.
[video=youtube;d4Ewsad_yEk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Ewsad_yEk[/video]
Personally I have more faith that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation then to think that our loving Father has elected people to be saved and elected others to be eternally separated from Him.
It violates the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place and denies the very love, mercy and grace of God towards all people.
The "elect" is Christ Himself and those that He is in become the elect because they are one spirit with Him. Everything starts and finishes with Christ.
Who so ever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Those that believe the gospel become the "elect".
I like this short 6 minute video that makes things so clear. This whole debate on predestination and elect is a useless one in reality.
[video=youtube;d4Ewsad_yEk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Ewsad_yEk[/video]
a. Never implied each and every man that lived would be saved.
b. agree....lost men cannot please God, though God uses lost men to work his will...of course..no man comes unto the Father unless drawn
c. Never implied that God chose us because we picked him....There is NONE that seek after God in their lost state (Romans)
d. Why many called, but only a few chosen?
e. All scriptures work together...JAMES proves the point....GOD does not upbraid...dangle salvation and then not give it if we believe....goes to point d.
f. If God makes us do anything is that choice?
g. Again, did not imply it was man's choice or will and ALL is conclusive of ALL when used in context
h. Sure....it is open to all, but not all will believe, that is a given <--Broad way as opposed to narrow way
I. Never implied that God merits grace based upon the choices we make....point goes to God's ability to see what choices we will all make...such as Judas and the scriptures written about him before hand...many say he had no CHOICE...I say God knew the choices he would make and testified before hand....same applies unto ALL....
j. Why did God choose us in him before the foundation of the world?
k. I take it that Jesus is the savior of all men....I.E> way is open to all men, but will only save those that believe!
b. agree....lost men cannot please God, though God uses lost men to work his will...of course..no man comes unto the Father unless drawn
c. Never implied that God chose us because we picked him....There is NONE that seek after God in their lost state (Romans)
d. Why many called, but only a few chosen?
e. All scriptures work together...JAMES proves the point....GOD does not upbraid...dangle salvation and then not give it if we believe....goes to point d.
f. If God makes us do anything is that choice?
g. Again, did not imply it was man's choice or will and ALL is conclusive of ALL when used in context
h. Sure....it is open to all, but not all will believe, that is a given <--Broad way as opposed to narrow way
I. Never implied that God merits grace based upon the choices we make....point goes to God's ability to see what choices we will all make...such as Judas and the scriptures written about him before hand...many say he had no CHOICE...I say God knew the choices he would make and testified before hand....same applies unto ALL....
j. Why did God choose us in him before the foundation of the world?
k. I take it that Jesus is the savior of all men....I.E> way is open to all men, but will only save those that believe!
I liked in the video where the guy said that God saves the worse of people. It's a good thing to remember that no one is exempt from the love of God no matter how foul they were in the eyes of man.
We need to have God's heart for people so that we can be living epistles of His love and grace toward them all. He loves them all dearly and He sent His Son to be the propitiation for them all.
1 John 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
We need to have God's heart for people so that we can be living epistles of His love and grace toward them all. He loves them all dearly and He sent His Son to be the propitiation for them all.
1 John 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
P
It's. The chicken OR the egg deal resurrected to confuse salvation.
Look at the jailer saved in acts. So simple. What "did" it??? Why was there not a Presbyterian to "help" him " understand" his unconfused conversion?? Surely he needed our complicated tutorial on what precisely PRECEDED his conversion.
Look at the confusion predestination injects.
So,so simple,the salvation dynamic.
The op is here to "fix" that.
Look at the jailer saved in acts. So simple. What "did" it??? Why was there not a Presbyterian to "help" him " understand" his unconfused conversion?? Surely he needed our complicated tutorial on what precisely PRECEDED his conversion.
Look at the confusion predestination injects.
So,so simple,the salvation dynamic.
The op is here to "fix" that.
I agree...although they do have a place and we can all learn from each other. But just because they or others say they are theologians is meaningless in it's own right.
Now for a topic that is really life changing that will help us to grow in grace and walk by the Spirit.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Keep in mind that male angels are slightly bigger then female ones...
