Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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FranC

FranC

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PeterJens said:
This is a very good question. I have believed in being in the world but not part of it.

I do not believe in monasticism and the self denial they follow.
I think there problem is the seeing need and the heart of another constrained by their limitations
rather than focusing on where we are as people. If you over analyse you end up in self
condemnation because the focus is on an artificial goal.

Have you ever tried not to do something by continually thinking about it, or but doing something
totally different? It is no surprise by constantly focusing on the wrong things you make them
stronger.

You can show if you distract the mind on to other things, even pain can be blocked out.

So my reason for aspiring to the walk of the apostles because Paul calls us to this, as well as Christ.
And more recently my mind has been opened up to see in faith the meanings that I missed.

Coming on cc also highlighted people are defeated by things that should not be a problem, but
they assume this is what being a christian is. A lot of things the Lord has done in me, have changed
how I feel about my limitations, and encouraged me to share more and not expect failure but
victory in His name. In His Kingdom we only have the limits we place on what is possible.
Our King is God.
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Hi Peter Jens
There's nothing wrong with what you believe. It has nothing to do with loss of salvation so I have no desire to argue against it.

You're on a good road, walking with our Lord. I can only encourage you. He's at the end of the road, ready to welcome you for having kept Him close.

Why anyone would want to argue with you is a mystery to me.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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dcontroversal said:
Chris1975 said:
I have and it does not change what John said.......
Click to expand...
Lets post some of these scriptures:

1 John 2 v3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Does the above mean there are commandments (after we have been saved)? :)

Lets put this another way. After you are saved, you then don't follow his commandments, you are then called a 'Liar' by God because you say that you know him, but in reality you don't. And how is this conclusion reached? By disobedience.

So let me ask the OSAS gallery ----- is following the commandments a requirement or not?
Click to expand...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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I believe that "sin" - the noun - not having dominion over us ( Rom. 6:14 ) is referring to the sin that is in the flesh not having dominion because we are in the spirit in Christ and not in the flesh.

I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin - the noun ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.

I too believe that the more we get a revelation that we are not in the flesh but really in the spirit because the real us is in Christ - the new creation - then "the influence" of sin loses it's power because of walking by the Spirit which is all based on the grace of Christ alone.

It's the influence of sin in our flesh that deceives us into doing the action of sinning. That is what I see in "sin shall not have dominion over us".

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

The flesh ( which are the ways and old habits of getting things from the world instead of through faith in Christ ) and the law/principle of sin ( Romans 7:23 ) work together in cohoots.

They know what works on us individually. For example: If in the past we are trying in our own fleshly ways to get love by having sex with others. Then the power of sin will inflame that desire in us to be with other people.

If we have a problem with pride - then the power of sin will use that to influence us to think that we are the beginning and end of all things...:rolleyes: If we think lowly of ourselves then the power of sin will use that to say we are worthless.

Each of us have our own unique fleshly ways of trying to find life from the world's belief system instead of through Christ's life that is in us. This brings death but walking by the spirit brings life and peace through the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work alone.
 
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Chris1975

Chris1975

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[h=3]1 John 3
Sin and the Child of God[/h][SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Chris1975 said:
1 John 3
Sin and the Child of God

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Click to expand...
You don't sin anymore?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Chris1975 said:
1 John 3
Sin and the Child of God

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
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all you do is state that you are deceived and have no truth....keep flappin
 
BillG

BillG

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DC not being rude please don't answer my question let's see what Chris1975 has to say
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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This should help to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do and not including things like outbursts of anger, malice, slandering others in the body of Christ, causing strife and divisions..etc.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"agoverning principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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BillG said:
Sin was defeated but have you thought about what that sin was?
Click to expand...
Lets start with Galations 5v19-21

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][c][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
FranC

FranC

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Chris1975 said:
dcontroversal said:
Lets post some of these scriptures:

1 John 2 v3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Does the above mean there are commandments (after we have been saved)? :)

Lets put this another way. After you are saved, you then don't follow his commandments, you are then called a 'Liar' by God because you say that you know him, but in reality you don't. And how is this conclusion reached? By disobedience.

So let me ask the OSAS gallery ----- is following the commandments a requirement or not?
Click to expand...
Excellent post.
There are other verses like this.
Interesting how one sees only what he wants to see and explains away the rest with concepts that are not biblical.
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Chris1975 said:
Am I your standard? Or is the scripture the standard?

I have posted scripture. If you don't like the scriptures, then by all means state that.
Click to expand...
ANSWER the question....lets see...a simple YES or NO........either way you go has you in a pickle........

a. YES<----destroys your premise
b. NO<---Makes you deceived with no truth

Which is it?
 
BillG

BillG

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Chris1975 said:
Am I your standard? Or is the scripture the standard?

I have posted scripture. If you don't like the scriptures, then by all means state that.
Click to expand...
Try putting it another way.

Not liking the scripture quotes may not be the issue, the issue is interpretation.
So let's discuss the differences we have,

Scripture is the standard but some interpret differently.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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dcontroversal said:
ANSWER the question....lets see...a simple YES or NO........either way you go has you in a pickle........

a. YES<----destroys your premise
b. NO<---Makes you deceived with no truth



Which is it?
Click to expand...
I have already answered this on the thread. Feel free to scroll back.
 
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