Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[PeterJens]

Let me get this straight, just for the sake of testimony.
I was taken to church as a kid, and I thought nice words but nothing more.

What struck me was the woman caught in adultery. The way the people were
handled showed great emotional understanding.

I only wanted truth, and what spoke to me in my heart. So I started to follow
Christ, and discover spiritual realities for myself, holding to truth being the greatest
ethic, testing and working things through.

So today I stand, with a clean heart and a purified soul through the blood of Christ
and the work of the Holy Spirit. It changes things, in ways you experience rather
than understand.

You either find this place and things become clear or it is lost.
So the argument is never an argument, it is just disciples pointing the way.
Listen to Jesus and follow His words, bind them deep in your soul, let love be
your guide, and let this love shine, taking risks, standing strong with our Lord
and Saviour Jesus Christ. Put into practise Jesus's commands while resting on
His salvation, and things impossible in the past will now become possible today.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I truly believe satin wants believers to believe in OSAS just so that they can become falsely aware of true faith.

OSAS lie is a great way to defeat someone who thinks they are saved from just uttering a few words.

After all what was the first lie?
Genesis 3
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Satin has been using that old lie for a long time.

 

[PeterJens]

By the way, with enough words you can change anything, by small increments.

There are 4 simple questions
1. Does God love us? Yes the cross says it all
2. What is our problem? Sin, rebellion.
3. What is our solution? Repentance, confession and faith in Jesus.
4. What is the fruit? Walking in obedience to the law of Christ.

And the core theme is love. The fruit of this relationship is victory over sin.

The problem is we are mainly emotional creatures bounded by an intellect which
tries to make sense of how we feel and what we need to do.

Jesus can unlock the door and bring healing and order to the heart, put things
in their proper place. If this is not done, then all the words will make no difference
or the best religious insights possible, because it is just a glossy coating on a flawed
empty life.

The key indicator of ones state in this world is does Jesus and His words warm your
heart or fill you with dread and condemnation? I want to encourage all those who
feel warmed by Christ, and encourage them to find life in his arms.

To those who feel dread and condemnation, why? Jesus is the Lord of life and hope,
the eternal giver of eternity and freedom. Search for Him before it is too late.

 

[mailmandan]

Believers, by definition, believe. Unbelievers are separated from God, not believers.

Amen! John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Amen...try to live the Christian life by your own human will-power and you will have your faith ship-wrecked. Trying to be your own savior will ship-wreck your faith.

You can go to church your whole life, pray 5 hours a day, read the bible every year from cover to cover. pastor a church for 30 years and still have a ship-wrecked faith during that whole time.

There is actually a great article about this verse in 1 Tim 1. I'll go get it. It'll bless us and help us to see the beauty that is in Christ and to watch out for those things that ship-wreck us while in this life.

Of course to those that believe they have to keep themselves saved and we lose our salvation - having ship-wrecked means to go to hell even if you have Christ in you and the Holy Spirit in you forever like Jesus said. John 14:16

You know trying to live again under the law was only one way to apostasy right? Sum it up as one who returns from belief to live in flesh and denies Christ.

The site you posted from is a lie.

Having the holy Spirit doesnt mean you wont go to hell. We scripture speaking on having the Spirit but some still commit Apostasy

 

[mailmandan]

^^ correct.

Ezekiel 18
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.

Ezekiel 18:29 - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS."

*This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.

As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous.

 

[mailmandan]

Yeah - they are twice dead.

*Once again, a tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NAS translation says "doubly dead."

Notice in Jude 12 that these trees will be "uprooted."

Notice in Matthew 15:13, Jesus said - Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be "uprooted."

[SUP]12 [/SUP]These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[SUP][c][/SUP] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; [SUP]13 [/SUP]raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

*THIS IS NOT DESCRIPTIVE OF BELIEVERS AND THERE IS NO LOSS OF SALVATION HERE.* Also, Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[PeterJens]

As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous.

The mistake is to characterise us as righteous. We are sinners saved by grace
who have become saints walking in the Spirit.

So to talk to people with this faith profile and theology the way you are is plain
stupid and not answering either where they are or what they believe.

Now I thought you had more sense, after such a long time of interaction, but
obviously not.

 

[Grace777x70]

You know trying to live again under the law was only one way to apostasy right? Sum it up as one who returns from belief to live in flesh and denies Christ.

The site you posted from is a lie.

Having the holy Spirit doesnt mean you wont go to hell. We scripture speaking on having the Spirit but some still commit Apostasy

I understand that the finished work of Christ conflicts with the religious teachings of some people that say those that belong to Christ lose their salvation. We don't save ourselves. Christ alone is the Savior. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit with be in you forever. John 14:16. Jesus is not a liar.

You would have more luck with trying to get me to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation then Jesus is lying to us about the Holy Spirit and that He is the Savior based on His work alone which we receive by grace through faith.


Everyone is free to believe what they want. I personally believe that this "lose your salvation" doctrine is the worse thing that our enemy has put into the mind of man to undermine the work of Christ and to create a religion of 'saving ourselves".

It denies the very work of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross and resurrection and nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

It has caused more harm to the body of Christ then any other foul doctrine that denies the work of Christ for His children that He loves dearly. Yes, there are false people amongst us but we don't bite and tear at the sheep because of them and condemn them because of the false ones.

I have read and heard from a few doctors that say a lot of the people in the mental institutions are Christians and it stems from this foul doctrine of losing one's salvation in Christ. The enemy has a field day with the minds and emotions of our precious brothers and sisters in Christ.

We need to preach and teach the grace and love of God so that we can grow up in Him.

 

[Chris1975]

No need to complicate matters.

A ship (ark) of faith keeps you above the water. It keeps you from drowning. It allows to to reach your destination.

A shipwreck - the boat sinks. the passengers drown. You don't reach your destination.

Their FAITH was shipwrecked. Without Faith it is impossible to please God. Without Faith, it is impossible to be saved.

Simple really.

 

[mailmandan]

The mistake is to characterise us as righteous. We are sinners saved by grace
who have become saints walking in the Spirit.

So to talk to people with this faith profile and theology the way you are is plain
stupid and not answering either where they are or what they believe.

Now I thought you had more sense, after such a long time of interaction, but
obviously not.

You don't really know what you are talking about and this is why I don't pay much attention to your ramblings. I also don't appreciate your childish insults.

Matthew 10:43 - Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 25:37 - Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

Matthew 25:46 - And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

*Believers are accounted as righteous.

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

 

[gb9]

No need to complicate matters.

A ship (ark) of faith keeps you above the water. It keeps you from drowning. It allows to to reach your destination.

A shipwreck - the boat sinks. the passengers drown. You don't reach your destination.

Their FAITH was shipwrecked. Without Faith it is impossible to please God. Without Faith, it is impossible to be saved.

Simple really.

the real reality is that GRACE is what saves us. faith and works are a response to that grace, not a cause of it.

this is what the issue is- you, peter, and some others are saying this- saved by faith through works, then, if you get those 2 correct, you get grace.

the Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, for good works.

so you are wrong, according to what Paul laid out.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I understand that the finished work of Christ conflicts with the religious teachings of some people that say those that belong to Christ lose their salvation. We don't save ourselves. Christ alone is the Savior. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit with be in you forever. John 14:16. Jesus is not a liar.

You would have more luck with trying to get me to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation then Jesus is lying to us about the Holy Spirit and that He is the Savior based on His work alone which we receive by grace through faith.


Everyone is free to believe what they want. I personally believe that this "lose your salvation" doctrine is the worse thing that our enemy has put into the mind of man to undermine the work of Christ and to create a religion of 'saving ourselves".

It denies the very work of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross and resurrection and nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

It has caused more harm to the body of Christ then any other foul doctrine that denies the work of Christ for His children that He loves dearly. Yes, there are false people amongst us but we don't bite and tear at the sheep because of them and condemn them because of the false ones.

I have read and heard from a few doctors that say a lot of the people in the mental institutions are Christians and it stems from this foul doctrine of losing one's salvation in Christ. The enemy has a field day with the minds and emotions of our precious brothers and sisters in Christ.

We need to preach and teach the grace and love of God so that we can grow up in Him.

You say religious teachings but its biblical teachings. I have proven that in my other thread with enough evidence than whats necessary. Just reading the scriptures is understanding enough but yall twist them so bad we got to go all scholarly which is what i did and it still backed apostasy is possible in a believer.

So who is teaching religion now?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

the real reality is that GRACE is what saves us. faith and works are a response to that grace, not a cause of it.

this is what the issue is- you, peter, and some others are saying this- saved by faith through works, then, if you get those 2 correct, you get grace.

the Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, for good works.

so you are wrong, according to what Paul laid out.

Yes grace through faith.

Grace is gods response

Faith is mans response to the message of grace.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No need to complicate matters.

A ship (ark) of faith keeps you above the water. It keeps you from drowning. It allows to to reach your destination.

A shipwreck - the boat sinks. the passengers drown. You don't reach your destination.

Their FAITH was shipwrecked. Without Faith it is impossible to please God. Without Faith, it is impossible to be saved.

Simple really.

You would think its that simple lol. We can literally read the whole bible and take scripture for what it says then none of this would be a issue.

Even though i may not agree on Jude as you do. But no doubt jude was a letter warning believers of the ungodly folks trying to decieve them.

 

[Chris1975]

the real reality is that GRACE is what saves us. faith and works are a response to that grace, not a cause of it.

this is what the issue is- you, peter, and some others are saying this- saved by faith through works, then, if you get those 2 correct, you get grace.

the Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, for good works.

so you are wrong, according to what Paul laid out.

Try removing Faith from the equation and you don't have Grace.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

If God didn't honor free will he would of never gave adam and eve a tree of life and a tree of knowledge, with one rule.

 

[Chris1975]

If God didn't honor free will he would of never gave adam and eve a tree of life and a tree of knowledge, with one rule.

And we as believers are free to make the choice once again. Live by the Spirit, or Live by the Flesh.

An unregenerated man cannot live by the Spirit. Only the man you has been born again, whose Spirit has come to life, can be led by the Spirit.

 

[PeterJens]

You don't really know what you are talking about and this is why I don't pay much attention to your ramblings. I also don't appreciate your childish insults.

Matthew 10:43 - Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 25:37 - Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

Matthew 25:46 - And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

*Believers are accounted as righteous.

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

So your reason for not listening to what I believe is though you think I am wrong,
actually understanding why and how I believe matters nothing to you.

And then to cap it all I am childish and do not know what I am talking about.

But if you do not address the issues I address you are not even answering anything.

I suppose this is a way of interacting but not, of arrogance and completely writing
someone off without engaging.

I do not understand. You follow the Lord of truth, yet do not follow it yourself.
God bless you, may the light of His truth come to light your heart and lead you
in the ways of forgiveness and love, Amen

 

[mailmandan]

So your reason for not listening to what I believe is though you think I am wrong,
actually understanding why and how I believe matters nothing to you.

And then to cap it all I am childish and do not know what I am talking about.

But if you do not address the issues I address you are not even answering anything.

I suppose this is a way of interacting but not, of arrogance and completely writing
someone off without engaging.

I do not understand. You follow the Lord of truth, yet do not follow it yourself.
God bless you, may the light of His truth come to light your heart and lead you
in the ways of forgiveness and love, Amen

You said I made a mistake by characterizing believers as righteous. I showed you from scripture that believers are called righteous, so I engaged with you, yet you accused me of not engaging with you. You also said my method of talking to people is plain stupid and you also accused me of lacking in sense. Why should I even bother to take you seriously?