Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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NO JIM, I see the truth in the following scripture...it has zero to do with good or bad....and you simply cannot accept the truth, but must of necessity, do nothing but make mouthy, derogatory comments.....serious
MY QUOTE AGAIN
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Couple points of observation about the following verse.
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling
a. Book, chapter and verse were added by men and if one reads the whole letter up to this point it becomes all to clear that this is written unto SAVED, IMMERSED disciples of JESUS who are partakers of the GOSPEL, are called SAINTS in the present tense and the context indicates the meaning of the statement.
b. The word continually is not found in all verses and can be cherry picked to support a working for doctrine, when taken out of context and not applied unto the rest of the letter.
c. The verse states to work out YOUR salvation. YOUR is indicative of something already possessed. NOT something that has not yet been acquired. The King James translates the word YOUR OWN... comes from 1438 in the Greek
ἑαυτοῦ Your own is POSSESSIVE and indicates something already possessed.
d. IT DOES NOT SAY-->WORK FOR SALVATION
e. The whole point is to fit it out......to grow, mature, fit out with the fruits of the spirit etc.....NOT WORK FOR IT TO GET OR OBTAIN.
MY QUOTE AGAIN
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling
a. Book, chapter and verse were added by men and if one reads the whole letter up to this point it becomes all to clear that this is written unto SAVED, IMMERSED disciples of JESUS who are partakers of the GOSPEL, are called SAINTS in the present tense and the context indicates the meaning of the statement.
b. The word continually is not found in all verses and can be cherry picked to support a working for doctrine, when taken out of context and not applied unto the rest of the letter.
c. The verse states to work out YOUR salvation. YOUR is indicative of something already possessed. NOT something that has not yet been acquired. The King James translates the word YOUR OWN... comes from 1438 in the Greek
ἑαυτοῦ Your own is POSSESSIVE and indicates something already possessed.
d. IT DOES NOT SAY-->WORK FOR SALVATION
e. The whole point is to fit it out......to grow, mature, fit out with the fruits of the spirit etc.....NOT WORK FOR IT TO GET OR OBTAIN.
NO JIM, I see the truth in the following scripture...it has zero to do with good or bad....and you simply cannot accept the truth, but must of necessity, do nothing but make mouthy, derogatory comments.....serious
MY QUOTE AGAIN
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Couple points of observation about the following verse.
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling
a. Book, chapter and verse were added by men and if one reads the whole letter up to this point it becomes all to clear that this is written unto SAVED, IMMERSED disciples of JESUS who are partakers of the GOSPEL, are called SAINTS in the present tense and the context indicates the meaning of the statement.
b. The word continually is not found in all verses and can be cherry picked to support a working for doctrine, when taken out of context and not applied unto the rest of the letter.
c. The verse states to work out YOUR salvation. YOUR is indicative of something already possessed. NOT something that has not yet been acquired. The King James translates the word YOUR OWN... comes from 1438 in the Greek
ἑαυτοῦ Your own is POSSESSIVE and indicates something already possessed.
d. IT DOES NOT SAY-->WORK FOR SALVATION
e. The whole point is to fit it out......to grow, mature, fit out with the fruits of the spirit etc.....NOT WORK FOR IT TO GET OR OBTAIN.
MY QUOTE AGAIN
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling
a. Book, chapter and verse were added by men and if one reads the whole letter up to this point it becomes all to clear that this is written unto SAVED, IMMERSED disciples of JESUS who are partakers of the GOSPEL, are called SAINTS in the present tense and the context indicates the meaning of the statement.
b. The word continually is not found in all verses and can be cherry picked to support a working for doctrine, when taken out of context and not applied unto the rest of the letter.
c. The verse states to work out YOUR salvation. YOUR is indicative of something already possessed. NOT something that has not yet been acquired. The King James translates the word YOUR OWN... comes from 1438 in the Greek
ἑαυτοῦ Your own is POSSESSIVE and indicates something already possessed.
d. IT DOES NOT SAY-->WORK FOR SALVATION
e. The whole point is to fit it out......to grow, mature, fit out with the fruits of the spirit etc.....NOT WORK FOR IT TO GET OR OBTAIN.
I think people should practise more testimonies. They are not about getting things
right but about speaking from the heart. It does not even have to be right, as we
are always a work in progress.
Now if I get a hard time when I am the most throw it out there type of guys and
have lots of experience of being a nutcase, what about our weaker brethren.
My heart has always been speaking how you see things is where the Lord is, because
He can work with heart honesty. I am not sure there actually is another way of sharing.
Paul put it
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
1 Cor 2:2-5
Not sure what Paul was expressing about God's power but it probably is as a pharisee
he was struck down by Jesus and shown the truth, that was brutal, life changing and
shattered who he was, and cost him everything. It is not the kind of experience you
say, not sure God was in that. He was picked out square and centre and not given
a lot of choice, lol. I am not like Paul, but I am always impressed at peoples life
stories and why they follow Christ.
right but about speaking from the heart. It does not even have to be right, as we
are always a work in progress.
Now if I get a hard time when I am the most throw it out there type of guys and
have lots of experience of being a nutcase, what about our weaker brethren.
My heart has always been speaking how you see things is where the Lord is, because
He can work with heart honesty. I am not sure there actually is another way of sharing.
Paul put it
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
1 Cor 2:2-5
Not sure what Paul was expressing about God's power but it probably is as a pharisee
he was struck down by Jesus and shown the truth, that was brutal, life changing and
shattered who he was, and cost him everything. It is not the kind of experience you
say, not sure God was in that. He was picked out square and centre and not given
a lot of choice, lol. I am not like Paul, but I am always impressed at peoples life
stories and why they follow Christ.
Causing children to stumble, and the other one is Jesus concerned about loosing some of
the apostles, and sharing about persecution and death, so they might be prepared and not
fall away.
Paul was warned by lots of prophets, that if he went to Jerusalem he would suffer and
never return, yet still he walked on. We think everything is so secure, yet if you have
kids you know how the parent child relationship has its moments just like a marriage.
Why is it that the most important relationship in the universe with a bible full of trauma
and human failure, a doctrine comes that everything is buy a ticket, done deal. There
is no such thing anywhere in the universe. The done deal is Jesus's love shown through
the cross, we though are still pretty inconsistent about our response, as cc demonstrates, lol.
the apostles, and sharing about persecution and death, so they might be prepared and not
fall away.
Paul was warned by lots of prophets, that if he went to Jerusalem he would suffer and
never return, yet still he walked on. We think everything is so secure, yet if you have
kids you know how the parent child relationship has its moments just like a marriage.
Why is it that the most important relationship in the universe with a bible full of trauma
and human failure, a doctrine comes that everything is buy a ticket, done deal. There
is no such thing anywhere in the universe. The done deal is Jesus's love shown through
the cross, we though are still pretty inconsistent about our response, as cc demonstrates, lol.
Amen lol
Otherwise we wouldn't post it. I just feel that who am i to judge when i feel what i believe to be true and so does someone else especially if we agree on the core concepts. You know like the trinity, Jesus as savior, only way to salvation, etc.
I feel like why try too hard to prove something on subjects that dont really matter. I mean some people will debate over how many gallons of water we need for a baptism.
It just gets old after awhile. God if only I had better self control and post my beliefs and move on. Knowing whoever opposes has their belief set in stone. It becomes one of those pointless arguments that Paul warns us not to get into.
Paul had to deal with religious teachings and rituals seeping back in from the law and false teachers.
We have to deal with both of that in a different cultural way but now we also have 2000 years of ways for man to corrupt truth.
All i can say is the best defense against this is read the bible first and then filter everything man has to say through it.
I grew up methodist and in my teens after struggling with anxiety and panic attacks i was led to a therapist. It was not a spiritual therapist but this man helped a lot.
I spent months going to him but the biggest thing he did to change my life was give me a small little book. And the concept of this book has forever shaped my life.
At this point in my life i had never read the whole bible but only knew the popular stories in small detail. This book gave me the understanding of how to see truth and protect myself from lies.
My therapist gave me a book called The Voice of Knowledge.
The author was a Christian but also had some very spiritual ideas about his faith, as to the reason why my therapist told me to focus on the concept of the book.
And so i read the book and was enlightened that i needed to question everything i knew. Everything! Do you know how unraveling and scary that is?
To question everything my parents had told me, everything i believed, everything anyone ever told me.
Once i accepted in my mind to do that and made it a habit to every thought question its truth. Was it logical, reasonable, loving and good.
But the only way we can truly do that is I had to know what to judge my thoughts with.
I began to read the bible cover to cover within a year and a half and all my old thoughts i held them as guilty until proven innocent.
I was amazed at how much awesome detail i missed from only hearing the major stories of the bible.
I took Jesus's teaching on building the right foundation to heart. I was not only doing that but completely now demolished everything i ever had known.
So now the Bible became my filter to sort through lies and truth. I found thoughts from my youth to be lies but also found thoughts to be wise.
This helped with my anxiety to see the lies that evil was attacking me with and now i had the sword of truth to fight back.
That journey led to many different Churches trying to see where my new belief fitted in the most. Ironically i was led back to my old church. I felt as if the other churchs watered down scripture too much. The new pastor that came into our church i hadnt even heard him speak yet.
Once i came back this man was teaching not just preaching. I mean our morning pamplets is filled with like 4 pages of information in a sermon. I loved it.
But now my journey wasn't over i still had to question this mans beliefs.
And so far we have been meeting for almost 2 years. I made a friend, he is very direct and his military career shows but i like his directness because too many people wont say how things are.
In fact when i first met him, the truth he told me, my flesh didnt want to hear it and i stayed mad at him for awhile lol. Until i decided to meet with him weekly realizing i wanted a faith like this mans faith.
Otherwise we wouldn't post it. I just feel that who am i to judge when i feel what i believe to be true and so does someone else especially if we agree on the core concepts. You know like the trinity, Jesus as savior, only way to salvation, etc.
I feel like why try too hard to prove something on subjects that dont really matter. I mean some people will debate over how many gallons of water we need for a baptism.
It just gets old after awhile. God if only I had better self control and post my beliefs and move on. Knowing whoever opposes has their belief set in stone. It becomes one of those pointless arguments that Paul warns us not to get into.
Paul had to deal with religious teachings and rituals seeping back in from the law and false teachers.
We have to deal with both of that in a different cultural way but now we also have 2000 years of ways for man to corrupt truth.
All i can say is the best defense against this is read the bible first and then filter everything man has to say through it.
I grew up methodist and in my teens after struggling with anxiety and panic attacks i was led to a therapist. It was not a spiritual therapist but this man helped a lot.
I spent months going to him but the biggest thing he did to change my life was give me a small little book. And the concept of this book has forever shaped my life.
At this point in my life i had never read the whole bible but only knew the popular stories in small detail. This book gave me the understanding of how to see truth and protect myself from lies.
My therapist gave me a book called The Voice of Knowledge.
The author was a Christian but also had some very spiritual ideas about his faith, as to the reason why my therapist told me to focus on the concept of the book.
And so i read the book and was enlightened that i needed to question everything i knew. Everything! Do you know how unraveling and scary that is?
To question everything my parents had told me, everything i believed, everything anyone ever told me.
Once i accepted in my mind to do that and made it a habit to every thought question its truth. Was it logical, reasonable, loving and good.
But the only way we can truly do that is I had to know what to judge my thoughts with.
I began to read the bible cover to cover within a year and a half and all my old thoughts i held them as guilty until proven innocent.
I was amazed at how much awesome detail i missed from only hearing the major stories of the bible.
I took Jesus's teaching on building the right foundation to heart. I was not only doing that but completely now demolished everything i ever had known.
So now the Bible became my filter to sort through lies and truth. I found thoughts from my youth to be lies but also found thoughts to be wise.
This helped with my anxiety to see the lies that evil was attacking me with and now i had the sword of truth to fight back.
That journey led to many different Churches trying to see where my new belief fitted in the most. Ironically i was led back to my old church. I felt as if the other churchs watered down scripture too much. The new pastor that came into our church i hadnt even heard him speak yet.
Once i came back this man was teaching not just preaching. I mean our morning pamplets is filled with like 4 pages of information in a sermon. I loved it.
But now my journey wasn't over i still had to question this mans beliefs.
And so far we have been meeting for almost 2 years. I made a friend, he is very direct and his military career shows but i like his directness because too many people wont say how things are.
In fact when i first met him, the truth he told me, my flesh didnt want to hear it and i stayed mad at him for awhile lol. Until i decided to meet with him weekly realizing i wanted a faith like this mans faith.
AMEN....can you imagine God saying....OOOPS I did not see that one coming.........if there is one thing I have learned from the word, it is that GOD does not miss a thing......and he knows and sees all.......!
I have heard people say that Judas did not have a choice because of the prophetic scripture concerning his choice to sell Jesus out with a kiss....
I say that GOD knew every choice that Judas would make and in knowing was able to record prophetically ahead of schedule concerning said choices.....GOD say that He tells us these things before they happen so that we will know and believe that he is God.
I have heard people say that Judas did not have a choice because of the prophetic scripture concerning his choice to sell Jesus out with a kiss....
I say that GOD knew every choice that Judas would make and in knowing was able to record prophetically ahead of schedule concerning said choices.....GOD say that He tells us these things before they happen so that we will know and believe that he is God.
Amen, halleluyah. If only more people took these concepts to heart more would
see Christ. Becoming a new creation is starting again, rooting in Christ.
Scripture is an emotional eternal book were the same words mean different things
at different points in our lives. So much we miss without the eyes of faith.
Praise the Lord, and God bless you for sharing, we stand on the edge of a great
move in Christ, Halleluyah.
see Christ. Becoming a new creation is starting again, rooting in Christ.
Scripture is an emotional eternal book were the same words mean different things
at different points in our lives. So much we miss without the eyes of faith.
Praise the Lord, and God bless you for sharing, we stand on the edge of a great
move in Christ, Halleluyah.
The bible is not a history book, not a science book, not a list of rules book, not a book with just words.
Its a relationship book that has all of them subjects in it but ultimately the bible doesn't focus on history science rules etc but focuses on Gods relationship with man, and mans relationship with God. Love as the core with one heart.
A love book living and active. God breathed and breathing. We love God because God is love in his very being. Not creating love, God is the definition of love.
Love-God
Its a relationship book that has all of them subjects in it but ultimately the bible doesn't focus on history science rules etc but focuses on Gods relationship with man, and mans relationship with God. Love as the core with one heart.
A love book living and active. God breathed and breathing. We love God because God is love in his very being. Not creating love, God is the definition of love.
Love-God
