Not By Works

[blessedjohn80]

I think your just being abit to perfect coz from where im standing i have been accused of all sorts beofr i have finally responded the way i have... no one as a polagized to me for all the lowly upsetting comments i have recieved and there has been quite alot directed at me by certain individuals who work together as a team here...

If i had of followed my heart and left meg on ignor i would not have responded the way i had..

She is looking for a responce from me and pushing me all the time..

She done it for the last month..

To which i became sick of her ill mannered responces to me i put her on ignor...

I did the brotherly thing and give her a second chance,,,,,, she then hit me even worse than befor...

That does seem to me somebody who looks to condem rather then looks to share...

This does seem to me somebody not after Gods heart and somebody who wants to make me look bad..

And it all because i havent agreed upon everything she says...

So to me i did the right thing by telling her 2 weeks agao i wasnt ready to speak to her... because when debates turn hoorible its not edifying for anyone,, and should it continue you can not follow Gods heart...

All the above shows that you can't take a simple criticism.
The subject of my post was about you and you simply diverted it(shifting the blame to someone else).

The point of my post was clear.
A lie done in ignorance is still a lie.

Better yet, a sin done in ignorance is still a sin.
So whoever sins breaks the law and proves that all are sinners.

Now this applies to all including me, you, and everyone else.
The point being, no matter how great we think we are at loving and doing what's pleasing for God,
we still fall short because of the law.

And you ignored discussing it.
To which I can understand because in my assumptions, like Petergens, you both don't stay on a subject
when it deals with your flaws.
You guys always imply that you are flawless and yet speak of repentance and humility.
Honestly humility and flawlessness is contradicting.
Only Jesus can pull that off.
Jesus was humble because He indeed was flawless.

So there it is all of it in a nutshell and my side of the story.. if we carry on to be horrible and say to someone your not saved and there from satan then how is that edifying for anyone..

Which i have been told several times..

So if someone claims a brothers is of satan and not saved then i will say to them you are not after Gods heart... coz thats not Gods wants...which meg implied i was long befor i post my coment and by the way is wasnt in as biiger bold as she made out... it was in small writing and a warning...not a direct statement..

1 God wants brothers and sister to sort there diffrence out admirallly...
2 God wants his children to keep each other on the straight path...
3 God want his children to keep the faith until the end...
4 God does not want his children to attack there brothers and soister daily and then get evryone else to attack them.. I would all seariously think on befor i post anymore becuase this is exactly how it is... people are looking for imperfection in brother and sister all the time here which is so sadly wrong and one i wont rise to anymore so dont waste your time... coz i see through ity and rise above it..

I also see somepeople being upset to..... to when this happens i will back of and offer some brotherly love which i doo and have..

If people dont want to accept my token of peace and friendship because of resentment and bitterness i say one thing to them and one thing only.....its not good to stay bitter for to long and resentfull...

And its not good to call a brother a liar when he clearly isnt one...

You're right, it's not good to call a brother a liar if he isn't one.
That's true. So how do we know who is lying?
By laying all the truths and tackling them head on.

But again, shifting the focus on others will not get us anywhere.

All scripture when delivered does not apply only to the hearer but also to the speaker as well.

Am I in danger of being guilty of falsely accusing a brother?
Yes!
We all are!
(If you don't agree on this speak up and let's discuss it.)

But as some of us here know, we are confident to come before God and ask forgiveness for those sins
unknown to us.
And we are confident that we already have forgiveness because of JESUS' FINISHED WORK!

Again, Jim, brother, learn to take criticism.
I will apologize right now if I have offended you with my post.
And may God give you the heart to forgive me.

And yes, it may seem like people are looking for imperfections in the brothers and sisters here all the time,
but it just goes to show that we are imperfect people.

Imperfect people no matter how perfect we think we are inside, we do imperfect things.

"For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"

Thank God for Jesus!

 

[slave]

Awesome scripture out of context to prove an invalid point....the negative aspect is directed at the LOST...of the which I am not....

Is this how you handle most scripture....just yank one and hang your point on it?

No I never do that.......ever!

 

[Seohce]

In other words you don't have a point, just want to quote random Bible verses?


Okay, have fun then.

When you get tired of it, you can join the grown up conversation.

Thanks for your very encouraging advise. It's just quite disturbing why some people reject the words of God up to the point of saying that they don't have any bearing on this thread instead of saying Amen. The purpose and intentions of some here is quite questionnable. If Christ is the mediator between God and man, can't He between men as the Word of God? Humility is lost in this thread which causes division and strife.
I'll take your advise anyway and leave you with these verse:

Philippians 2:3-16 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Shining as Stars Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

 

[blessedjohn80]

Thanks for your very encouraging advise. It's just quite disturbing why some people reject the words of God up to the point of saying that they don't have any bearing on this thread instead of saying Amen. The purpose and intentions of some here is quite questionnable. If Christ is the mediator between God and man, can't He between men as the Word of God? Humility is lost in this thread which causes division and strife.
I'll take your advise anyway and leave you with these verse:

Philippians 2:3-16 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Shining as Stars Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

I think you're the one misunderstanding Ariel82.
This is a discussion thread, we discuss things here, therefore, share our opinions, thoughts, interpretations and truths.

Using scripture is all well and good.
The scriptures are perfect and holy that's why if you indeed want to participate in this thread it would be better not just to post scriptures but also why you posted them.

Here's an example. I'll give you a scripture which I think supports my thought.

"Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified."

I know the context here is speaking in tongues but I pray you see my point.
No one gets edified if no one understands what you are saying.

I can post scriptures too. As I'm sure everyone else here can.
And we can post scriptures back and forth.
But would we understand each other?

By posting scriptures back and forth without some form of clue as to what it is meant would we be able to really discuss anything?

No disrespect, but if you're just gonna post scriptures, then the only thing you're adding is space in this thread.
I have a bible on my desk, bible in my phone, and another bible website open on my browser and by the grace of God I know how to use them.

You can agree with me on this or not or even leave me a scripture or two if you like, but this is all just my opinion.
Don't take it personally.

God bless and peace to you.

 

[PeterJens]

Yea he would because he is sick of seeing folks fool themselves.

Do you only love folks when they speak gently to you or you love them even when they speak strongly from their hearts?

Ariel - You are so sure these are people who do not know Jesus or the cross or redemption.
You are saying I am trying to justify myself before God.

I think you are missing out on the walk, and what the walk is.
How do we attain the stature of Christ and His walk?

This is a many layered walk, with many issues if put at the wrong level disappear.

The church in all its forms is a history of man trying to find meaning and interpretation
through scripture and their walk.

For whatever reason the abdication route is favoured by many.
It is simple and direct, but it misses the point by over-emphasising the failure of a redeemed
believer, and putting too much responsibility on God.

Jesus said God was the land owner who had been away a long time, and was a hard task
master, expecting returns where it had not been sown.

Unless people can start to be honest about behaviour and how this works within our walk,
it is all just excuses, and I can have no respect for those who talk and behave like this.
Lawlessness is the reign of an idea when morality does not exist with no reference points.

When asked repeatedly the answer is not given. So the accusation stands, this is lawlessness
verses the law of Christ.

I am simply standing for the principle of love working through our lives and transforming us
step by step into the likeness of Christ. But for many this is an impossible goal or path,
they just walk day by day and leave it at that.

 

[fredoheaven]

I think you're the one misunderstanding Ariel82.
This is a discussion thread, we discuss things here, therefore, share our opinions, thoughts, interpretations and truths.

Using scripture is all well and good.
The scriptures are perfect and holy that's why if you indeed want to participate in this thread it would be better not just to post scriptures but also why you posted them.

Here's an example. I'll give you a scripture which I think supports my thought.

"Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified."

I know the context here is speaking in tongues but I pray you see my point.
No one gets edified if no one understands what you are saying.

I can post scriptures too. As I'm sure everyone else here can.
And we can post scriptures back and forth.
But would we understand each other?

By posting scriptures back and forth without some form of clue as to what it is meant would we be able to really discuss anything?

No disrespect, but if you're just gonna post scriptures, then the only thing you're adding is space in this thread.
I have a bible on my desk, bible in my phone, and another bible website open on my browser and by the grace of God I know how to use them.

You can agree with me on this or not or even leave me a scripture or two if you like, but this is all just my opinion.
Don't take it personally.

God bless and peace to you.

I'm on the edge of seriousness but you gave me the reason to laugh! HAHAHA! like it!

"Don't take it personally." to Whosoever this may concern...

God bless to all!

 

[PeterJens]

Yea he would because he is sick of seeing folks fool themselves.

"fool themselves"

So one group have decided this other group are fooling themselves.
This might be true but you have to honestly declare what you believe and why, and then
suggest why others have got it wrong.

Now I have tried to do this time and again to define different belief structures and reasons
and the response has been, I am insulting, slandering, lying, being evil, of satan, sending people
to hell.

Now any group who dislike their beliefs being properly defined and put down, are not being honest
with themselves.

I have declared simply time and again what I believe and why, where I stand on each point as far
as I can work it through, yet I am told I am unclear, people are confused, I distort and twist things.

So the response to truth and openness is personal attacks without respect. Long term this approach
will die and destroy the people who hold it. A fool is someone who does not listen to Christ.

Christ is very specific. Listen to my words, put them into practice and you are a wise man.

"sick of seeing folks fool themselves"

Build you house upon the rock, obey Christ and put into effect His commands.

 

[PeterJens]

Revelations 22:11: New International Version
Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy."

This is about walking in righteousness or walking in sin.
In Christ, we walk truly in righteousness if we do the right things.

If we believe we cannot do the right things, and are just trapped into sin, what is the power
of Christ at work within us? How can the cross have so little effect?

I know I am only responsible for my walk and the fruit of my heart. So I just say, Amen to Christ
and may all listen to His words and follow in the way of repentance, confession and faith.

 

[PeterJens]

Emotional honesty

Often people will claim they will be honest open and tell you how things are.
Well as long as they sincerely believe they are right and it all fits together.

Who is going to make an argument, which as they type it fails to make sense or work.
Now one believes everything is ok, except the words are not there. So the easier option
is just demolish the opponent and their evil for daring to suggest their is an alternative position.

Sometime I find athiests easier to discuss with because at least they know how to discuss
foundational belief systems.

The main thing is a simple one. We are not talking ideas here really but ourselves and something
we hold very dear, which forms part of our daily existance. So it makes it difficult if another position
is upsetting. But this is discipline of evangelism and adventure, which I personally enjoy.
And in this world, please do not think anyone is fooling themselves, in their world it all makes sense.
So try to put yourself in their shoes, and see how they make their world. You maybe able to help
them and they you. This is what Christ called us to do.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Discernment is learned through what you eat? That's ridiculous. Discernment is given by God, through prayer, and perseverance and observation. And how can God change AGAIN? He is eternally UNchanging..

Leviticus 19:2 ish
Hebrew 5:14 ish
Rom. 12 ish

Discernment is learned through what you eat. When the scripture makes it known in Instruction perfectly and God doesn't change again..

 

[Ariel82]

spirit discerning Spirit! AMEN! (let it be so) (Shalom!)....my brother.

So do you agree with his spirit that NOT keeping the Sabbath and Jewish feasts is a SIN?

What does your spirit say about that?

 

[Ariel82]

I'm on the edge of seriousness but you gave me the reason to laugh! HAHAHA! like it!

"Don't take it personally." to Whosoever this may concern...

God bless to all!

I am wondering why he quoted Seoche,yet addressed me in his post?

My intent for posting scripture is pretty obvious and most of the time I post accompanying words to why I post them.

 

[Ariel82]

From Seoche " The purpose and intentions of some here is quite questionnable. If Christ is the mediator between God and man, can't He between men as the Word of God? Humility is lost in this thread which causes division and strife."

The discussion often gets heated on both sides of the debate, but God doesn't tell us to judge the truthfulness of the message by the holiness of the messenger, though many do use that at a judge.

With everyone God is still working on our hearts and minds to conform to His will.

For a few days, this thread was going fine. People shared their personal testimonies and it truly felt like the Holy Spirit was moving in the hearts and minds of many present.

Then a wave of delusion came and certain members felt attacked and felt the need to defend themselves. So instead of praying and seeking God's wisdom they lashed out at their perceived enemies, forgetting that we do not war against flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness.

After that point, the whole mood of the thread de-evolved and Satan got his momentary victory.

So you offer Bible verses and judge folks external actions and find them lacking?

Do you also offer prayers and question your own motives, before judging theirs?

I don't know everyone's motives in this thread, but I know that Dcon is to have people hear that the gospel is about faith in the finished work of Christ alone and NOT anything people think they can or must do to earn their salvation.

Do you agree or disagree with that belief?

Those who disagree will find and make strife in this thread.for there is no peace found in a false gospel.

Those who agree will find fellowship and acceptance into the Body of Christ.

This doctrine is fundamental to the Christian faith. If you don't know the foundation of your faith, then out of love many here will seek to warn of false gospels and teach you why you should have faith in Christ alone for salvation.

 

[Ariel82]

What? "Learn discernment?" What class teaches that? Or should we say, live by the spirit instead. So, tell me after you have tested the spirits involved in DC's curse reference and my biblical response to it, whose Spirit was I coming from?; but to be fair; use the same test on whose spirit HIs comment was coming from?, since you are rebuking me, I assume you are trained in this class of learning to discern, so what is your answer to my questions. Now, note, if you don't directly answer my questions, you will have answered my questions.

I believe your comment adds strife, even though you believed it to be edifying and hoped to remind Dcon to watch his language.

Your heart was in the right place but you were deceived into aiding the enemy since your words were not impartial and you did not highlight the more important point that Dcon was trying to make:

No one here HATES Peterjens!

Instead of addressing the important issue at hand, your post distracts from the message of love to judge the external trappings.

The Holy Spirit tells God's children to examine the fruit, to determine if the wisdom is earthly or heavenly.

Sometimes it's not always What is said as WHO says it and HOW and WHEN it's said. Of course Why is also key.

 

[Ariel82]

I am wondering why he quoted Seoche,yet addressed me in his post?

My intent for posting scripture is pretty obvious and most of the time I post accompanying words to why I post them.

Oh I figured it out. He said the other guy misunderstood me...lol,took a couple readings.

 

[Ariel82]

"Messiah on the stake "

Hmmm interesting...yet he uses cross later?

Wonder which one he truly believes?

 

[blessedjohn80]

I am wondering why he quoted Seoche,yet addressed me in his post?

My intent for posting scripture is pretty obvious and most of the time I post accompanying words to why I post them.

My post was a response to Seoche. I just read my post again and understood why you thought I was responding to you.

I thought my post was clear.

Apologies Ariel82.

#6524 was for Seoche.

God bless.

 

[Ariel82]

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

We debate about this and that,and sometimes we say that the other person is deceived,God is not working in their life,they are not chosen.

But I believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,that He is Lord and Savior,and He is the Christ,the Son of the living God,a sinless man,conceived of the Holy Spirit,whose blood takes away our sins,so we can receive the Holy Spirit,and He is our King,High Priest,whose kingdom is a kingdom that will be forever.

Now how could I believe these things if I was deceived,for no person can believe these things unless God is working in their life.

A person can be deceived but that does not mean God is not working in their life or He has not chosen,them.

Peter was deceived and Jesus rebuked him and prayed for him even when Jesus knew Peter would deny Him 3 times.

Do you believe people follow the Holy Spirit perfectly upon being born again?

Or is there a learning curve in which the Enemy sometimes deceives Or tempts God's chosen people?

 

[Ariel82]

Nope...wrong again PeterJens.

"Ariel - You are so sure these are people who do not know Jesus or the cross or redemption.
You are saying I am trying to justify myself before God."

I have NEVER said you don't know JESUS, the cross or redemption.

That is just a false assumption on your part.

The statement you quoted was to illustrate that Dcon was speaking out of love and concern for others.

It does not state of I agree or disagree with his assesment.

It is a simple acknowledgement that his words were spoken with love, just not The cute and cuddly type.

If you can't respect that or him. Then you have issues you need to take to God in Prayer.

I don't "miss out" on the walk with God,and neither does Dcon and others who don't agree with you. Its a false accusation based upon false assumptions.

 

[Seohce]

I think you're the one misunderstanding Ariel82.
This is a discussion thread, we discuss things here, therefore, share our opinions, thoughts, interpretations and truths.

Using scripture is all well and good.
The scriptures are perfect and holy that's why if you indeed want to participate in this thread it would be better not just to post scriptures but also why you posted them.

Here's an example. I'll give you a scripture which I think supports my thought.

"Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified."

I know the context here is speaking in tongues but I pray you see my point.
No one gets edified if no one understands what you are saying.

I can post scriptures too. As I'm sure everyone else here can.
And we can post scriptures back and forth.
But would we understand each other?

By posting scriptures back and forth without some form of clue as to what it is meant would we be able to really discuss anything?

No disrespect, but if you're just gonna post scriptures, then the only thing you're adding is space in this thread.
I have a bible on my desk, bible in my phone, and another bible website open on my browser and by the grace of God I know how to use them.

You can agree with me on this or not or even leave me a scripture or two if you like, but this is all just my opinion.
Don't take it personally.

God bless and peace to you.

New International Version 1984 1 Corinthians 2:4-16 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power. Wisdom From the Spirit We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”— but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.