Calvinists,Im Asking...

[trofimus]

I am this one:

Best of all possible worlds | Theopedia

It may have some similiarities with molinism.

I am of opinion that the will is always more inclined towards the course it adopts, but that it is never bound by the necessity to adopt it.

 

[preacher4truth]

Just in case William Lane Craig hoodwinks someone and gains a disciple:

[video=youtube;xPBsNczibLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPBsNczibLA[/video]

 

[miknik5]

With regards to free will, don't forget that in HIS GRACE, HE says anyone who gives a cup to one of these little ones because they are my disciple certainly will not lose his reward

 

[Grace777x70]

Basically its just a debate over free will. If we are mere puppets being all controlled by God with only a sense of freedom or God honors a free choice to love him.

Its just like our cat. Our Cat dont love me. So if i had the power to make it love me, and i force hold it and pet it. What kind of love is that?

It is very obvious that God is trying to persuade our hearts about Him and what He has done in Christ because of His great love and mercy towards us.

He does not choose people on purpose to go to hell by not allowing them to choose Christ even though He has taken the sin of the world on Himself. It's anti-the gospel and an anti-Christ belief system.

We are not designed by God to believe or trust in "a being" that is like this.

God so loved the world that He gave...

The gospel is He loved the world, He gave, We believe, We live and it is all by grace through faith in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

The whole world was included in Christ's work on the cross and the 2 thieves being crucified "with Him" were a representation of the world. One believed the other did not. Both had the choice.

Here is what God is doing now and that is to be our true ministry to "the world."

"Namely that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. not counting their sins against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God was making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ , be reconciled to God.

2 Cor. 5:19-20

God is making an appeal through us to "the world" - be reconciled to God. How do we do that? By believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world.

Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved is the gospel message for all who believe.

 

[trofimus]

"The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

"This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'"

Again, ladies and gentlemen. Its both.

 

[Depleted]

I was thinking about it, but then I realized that it is not specifically about Calvinism... It applies to Lutherans etc too...

We never protested to follow a man. We protested to follow the Lord. The Reformation was about bringing back what the Bible says, not what a dominion says. I have no idea how Lutherans work today. I do know the core beliefs Calvin and Luther had are what caused the revolution called "Reformation." They weren't the first, nor the only, to go back to what God said over what the current church-state said, but they came along in time for the printing press, so finally people could read other people's ideas. Finally, people could hear what God says over what the going price for an indulgence was.

People call us Calvinists, because that's a world they think they understand. People call me a Yankee because that's a word they think they understand. In general, I am both. In other ways, I am neither. Don't divide the Reformed into unnecessary groups. The Five Solas meant something besides the words themselves. It was a call for unity, not division.

 

[Depleted]

This may seem like an odd question but do you believe the Jews are chosen people? Or how do Calvinists view that? or Reformed.

Is that question for Marano alone, or can we all weigh in?

In general, Reformed/Reformers tends to take in only what the Bible says. The Bible goes as far as to say God chose the Israelites. And, then when Christ died, he chose some from the Israelites and some from the Gentiles. To go beyond that into the question I think you're asking -- "Will Jews be brought back to God" -- goes away from Reformed thought into what people believe apart from Reformed Theology.

Calvin didn't like the Jews. He thought they should be wiped out because they rejected God. And that is one of many reasons I have problems with the word Calvinist. I couldn't disagree with him more on that one.

Every Christian believes something about the Jews. It's not doctrine though.

 

[Depleted]

The Article was from a Calvinist website..........NOT what I think they believe.......what they say they believe.

The thread asked for opinions..........and, given what Scripture actually says, I'd say mine was far more Scriptural than what Calvin taught.

And, if you had been paying attention, you would have noticed there are half a dozen or more threads on this forum all talking about the evils of Calvinism already. So you adding to it on this thread, not about that, was you thinking you can do something Kayla specifically asked people not to do.

Sometimes life isn't all about you, no matter how you defend your actions.

 

[Depleted]

I guess there are differing views on this as well, amileanists will say all of us are God's chosen people under the new covenant and I agree with that, what I'm not too sure about is how God treats the old covenant with Israel, some people say it's now covered in the new covenant, other people say it still stands, yet I'm not too sure myself.

A covenant is a contract is a testament. The Old Testament is a contract between God and Man. Man broke his side of the covenant. God has not broken his side. The New Testament is a contract between Father and Son. It had to be, because Man would not keep his side no matter what. The New Covenant will never be broken because God does not break his word. So throughout the Bible everything God promised remains promised.

That is Reformed Theology.

The disagreements start coming in when we go over what God promised the nation he chose.

 

[Depleted]

No,not at all.I have been very honest that I do not agree with Calvinists and I will not change my mind. But have learned a lot and Im still on the first page of the thread asking questions. So please dont make this thread something it isn't. Ive given my stand openly but I believe I have misunderstandings about Calvinism,which I am clearing up now. Though I dont agree Im not one to say "well they believe so and so" if they dont. Ive had many people say "you're Pentecost,you believe you need to speak in tongues to be saved!" Well I dont believe that,that is holiness Pentecostals. So I am asking and getting answers. And so far it has been a peaceful thread and I mean to keep it that way.

Ah, shoot! Should have gone with tongues, instead of traveling ministers, huh? lol

Sorry. I didn't know people told you you have to speak in tongues to be considered Pentecostal. Honestly? I thought that notion left sometime between the 1970's and now.

 

[Depleted]

The thing about revelation, if it conforms to scripture it isn't new. Everything has been given pertaining to life and godliness already. As far as healing, this is the type of gift I would say could happen, but in extremely rare circumstances. I mean immediate miraculous healing. I believe God still heals providentially. My issue with gifts like these I think, is that miracles weren't as commonplace as people think in the bible. They were always at specific times, the power given only to specific people, and for specific circumstances. They generally were given to those who spoke on behalf of God to prove God had spoken through them. I think prophecy has ended and all the gifts that accompanied it. Prophecies today look like nothing more than fortune telling.

One thing I think we have to be careful of today is that we have all these churches claiming to be operating in the gifts of the Spirit but they resemble eastern mysticism and other pagan religions more than their biblical counterpart. That should be concerning. Most people operating in the so-called gifts today can't even tell you how they know it's from God or not other than by some emotional response like it made them happy or feel good.

And this really is a repeated theme in Reformed Theology. I just don't know if it is part of Reformed Theology, or if it's a side issue.

Most of the Reformed I know say they believe in cessationism -- the gifts are over. BUT I've never met one who disagrees with any of the many gifts except for tongues and fortune telling. (One of several definitions for "prophecy.") The other parts of the gift of prophecy they do believe in -- word of knowledge and word of wisdom. They just call it that, and then dismiss that as not-a-gift.

And I did join a church that doesn't like tongues. In their orientation class for new members they said, "If you speak in tongues, don't speak them in this church" and "You may not be comfortable in this church if you speak in tongues." That was as far as they took it. They didn't say it was evil, wrong, or anything like that. They just disagreed with it.

Now, I don't speak in tongues, but I immediately looked at hubby, because he does. He shrugged. When we could talk, he said he was fine not speaking in tongues in church. He's all about learning and giving, but tongues is his prayer language sometimes. It doesn't edify anyone but himself, so why would he do it in church?

And then the pastor found out he had cancer and was dying. He asked for prayers for God's will to be done, and made special note that he wasn't asking for healing, but if anyone was led that way, he wasn't against it either. He simply wasn't expecting it, just that God's will be done. To me, that is the same prayer. If God's will is to heal, then praying for God's will in someone's life includes healing. If that's not God's will, it won't happen.

The pastor died, but that was the extent of cessationism I've experienced in a Reformed church. Everyone says they don't think the gifts are for today, but mostly, (except tongues and fortune-telling), they aren't going to banish anyone for disagreeing, and they tend to disagree with themselves anyway.

After all, miracles do happen. Not often, or it wouldn't be called a miracle. But they do happen.

 

[Depleted]

That's just concering eschatology, but you see there are so many different views you need to define that unfortunately, I wish we had one confession of faith only, and that was biblical.

We do have one confession of faith only.

The Nicene Creed.

[FONT=&quot]I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.[/FONT]

 

[Depleted]

Y'all need to respect the op and take your fighting elsewhere..,

I wanna learn what the Calvinist believe too.

Not all reformed folks believe all 5 tulip points but all accept the 5 solas...

I believe to be called Calvinist you have to accept all 5 tulip petals.

On your last point... me too, but that will start a fight too. lol

 

[Depleted]

Quote "no double election for me"

Ok,I need an explanation here!!

I so hope you get that, because I'm with you there. Reformed Theology doesn't include double-predestination, but I cannot see where it is not just that!

(This is sort of like body/spirit/and-or soul. I do not get that concept no matter how many times people explain it to me. I've all but given up trying to get it, and yet, still have my personal beliefs on both. lol)

 

[Depleted]

Double election is also called equal ultimacy. This was the cause of the strife on the last thread. People falsely accuse Calvinist/reformed believers of believing God takes part in causing man to go to hell. That he actually causes them to sin, like little puppets. As far as I know, no one holds this point of view here. We were constantly being accused of it though, me included, when I had already made my stance on it clear on the second post on the thread. That's why several of us were becoming so reactionary.

Okay, so this is how I see it, even knowing it's not how I'm supposed to see it. (I do get being Reformed is supposed to mean I don't believe this. I can't help it. I'm stuck here.)

God's walking through Death Row. Nothing but Dead-Men-Walking down that corridor. Each one is dead in sin, deserves separation from God, death, and hell, so we are where we're supposed to be. And yet, the Lord unlocks some of the doors to set the prisoners free into him. Some of the doors. Not all of the doors. He chooses some.

How does that not mean he chose others to be not-saved? Granted, they deserve the punishment as much as the ones he set free, but he did not chose them, which, in itself is his choice, right? To not make a choice is a choice.

 

[Depleted]

Hey I learned a new vocabulary word or two:

"Double predestination or equal ultimacy "

Yaaaahhhhh Us! Lol

It's good no one believes that or we would have issues...

 

[Depleted]

I've never heard of equal ultimacy either...

I did. Two days ago. From Forth. On another thread. lol

 

[Depleted]

Ha!! I think this should CCs theme picture. A gf of mine just shared this on FB. We all need this one,some more than others,and you know who you are. rofl

I hope that plunger is brand new! lol

 

[Depleted]

I think one of the reasons non-Calvinists (and even some Calvinists!) don't "get" it (for lack of a better term), is because we're a little infamous for defining terms...and terms...and terms! There are so many handy dandy terms that Reformed people use, and if the person I'm talking to is not familiar with the terms, I'm at something of a loss because it seems like every term is interconnected. The basics of Christianity are very, very simple. Yet the teachings of Christ are such that we could spend a lifetime defining and drawing deeper and still not know everything.

See now. That just doesn't happen unless you grow up into it. I absolutely remember all my objections before becoming a Calvinist. And I still don't get 75% of the terms, so you got to say it in second grade language for me.

 

[Ariel82]

We do have one confession of faith only.

The Nicene Creed.

[FONT=&quot]I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.[/FONT]

We follow this one too..