Not By Works
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I don't throw ammunition. Nor do I collect it. I discuss and discover God with people. My asking those questions were to get to know you better. So why do you think the Scripture I quoted would insult you? You don't need to answer me those specific questions in that text, if you prefer not to, but I invite you to answer God those specific questions behind closed doors. Please, don't think I am after you, for I am not. May God bless you as you live your life a living sacrifice, Holy and pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.
finally bruce !!!!! you admit it yes !!!!!!
"The true message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block to all of us ..... It is anti-Christ at it's core. "
He left out the whole message. Sometimes people do that to twist what is really being said to make it "appear" to be something else. Unfortunately it's a common tactic to mis-represent what is really being said.
Here is the full message.
Quote:
The true Gospel of the grace of God in Christ is all about Christ Himself. He is the gospel. He provides His life - He provides His faith, He provides His works.
Receiving Christ is simple and it is done when we hear the message of Him when we believed.
The true message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block to all of us with a works-based and works-righteousness belief system. It is anti-Christ at it's core.
We will do good works as a result of already being saved and His life is manifested if we feed Christians with the proper nutrients of His love and grace so that they can have their minds renewed and walk in His life being manifested in and through them.
I have witnessed you slander many, and many times. I know you deny it, I have witnessed your own slander of me often, and when I have taken the time to explain things to you, you have turned around and feigned ignorance of what my issues with you are. Yes, right after I tell you what they are, you pretend you don't know, as if they were not sitting right there on the page right under your very nose. So talking to you is mostly pointless,. I only do it now so others see your heresy and what you are really like.
Go read your Bible, Jason. John chapter one should definitely help clear it all up for you. How many times will you have to read it before you accept what it explicitly says? I have at other times given you quite a few other Scriptures, but you ignore and/or reject them all.
Go read your Bible, Jason. John chapter one should definitely help clear it all up for you. How many times will you have to read it before you accept what it explicitly says? I have at other times given you quite a few other Scriptures, but you ignore and/or reject them all.
finally bruce !!!!! you admit it yes !!!!!!
"The true message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block to all of us ..... It is anti-Christ at it's core. "
He left out the whole message. Sometimes people do that to twist what is really being said to make it "appear" to be something else. Unfortunately it's a common tactic to mis-represent what is really being said.
Here is the full message.
Quote:
The true Gospel of the grace of God in Christ is all about Christ Himself. He is the gospel. He provides His life - He provides His faith, He provides His works.
Receiving Christ is simple and it is done when we hear the message of Him when we believed.
The true message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block to all of us with a works-based and works-righteousness belief system. It is anti-Christ at it's core.
We will do good works as a result of already being saved and His life is manifested if we feed Christians with the proper nutrients of His love and grace so that they can have their minds renewed and walk in His life being manifested in and through them.
lol actually bruce your comment i quoted above and was trying to joke with you but i forgot its "slander"
does this apply to Christians bruce?
Jesus words matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
this is Just one example of why its anti christ if bruce answers......
Wait. Is he the Jason from a couple of yrs ago? Wasn't he one of the sinless perfection heresy guys? Or is he a different Jason?
I have had him on ignore almost from his start, so that would make sense.
Are banned people permitted to come back under a different name, or after a set amount of time?
I have had him on ignore almost from his start, so that would make sense.
Are banned people permitted to come back under a different name, or after a set amount of time?
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Lies dont get any truer because you keep telling them though just an fyi...but i have you on block already, you should quit talking about me i only see your comments when someone else replies. imna again let it go, take care again 
ill let God defend me rather than be drawn into the same cicle with you, slander away im good with it God has me
ill let God defend me rather than be drawn into the same cicle with you, slander away im good with it God has me
You sound like a real Christian .
Your words speak for themselves.
Love is hard to come by on this forum.
But I'm not leaving it.
BTW
You never did answer my question.
Easier to just spew some hatred around rather than to answer a simple question.
Maybe it wasn't so simple?
And so much hatred from those who profess to know the "true gospel".
Your words speak for themselves.
Love is hard to come by on this forum.
But I'm not leaving it.
BTW
You never did answer my question.
Easier to just spew some hatred around rather than to answer a simple question.
Maybe it wasn't so simple?
And so much hatred from those who profess to know the "true gospel".
I would love to answer that question and have many times. If you don't like it - that's ok. I do thank you for giving me the opportunity to preach the wonderful good news of Christ's work for us.
These are word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached after the cross and resurrection.
Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??
Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??
Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?
The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.
Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
Now in the New Covenant - There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.
It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.
We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.
Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.
Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?
Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them.
Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.
Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.
These are word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached after the cross and resurrection.
Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??
Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??
Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?
The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.
Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
Now in the New Covenant - There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.
It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.
We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.
Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.
Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?
Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them.
Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.
Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.
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They say Christ's finished work gives us redemption,and there is nothing we can do to add to that,which it is true for we are saved by faith,for that is all we can do being in the flesh is have faith,and our works would never measure up because we are fleshy,and not spiritual.
But God gave the Old Testament,and then the responsibility fell on them.
God gave the New Testament,and when we are saved,then the responsibility falls on us,for Jesus did His part,shed blood to wash away our sins,and to be able to receive the Holy Spirit,to empower us to live a life like Christ.
They try to take away the responsibility of the believers,and take away the chance that they might fall.
So they interpret everything that way,and that is why they say God chooses in the beginning who will be saved without their input,and faith alone,and works have no bearing on their salvation,and they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God.
They take away everything to where all that a saint has to do is confess Christ,and all that is needed,to where even holding unto sin,and not getting rid of it does not hinder them.
They take away everything,sin does not affect them,they cannot fall,they do not have to have works if they do not want to,but that is not what the Bible says.
Jesus did His part in providing salvation,and when a person accepts,then the responsibility falls on them to maintain that salvation,for the Spirit will not force us to live for God,so we have the responsibility to maintain our salvation,and did they receive the Spirit at all.
Stop putting it on Jesus as not to take responsibility,for He did His job,now do yours and allow the Spirit to lead you,and abstain from sin.The Spirit will not force us to live for God,so we have to make the decision to keep ourselves right by wanting to abstain from sin,and doing that.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God wants all people to be saved,and Jesus gave a Himself as a ransom for all,and is the Savior of the world,and lights every person that is born in this world.
God is love,and not evil,and if God chooses who will be saved without their input,then His kingdom is not true love,and if He does not choose who will be saved without their input,then He is condemning people for no reason,and why would they be responsible for their sins,if they cannot help but be disobedient,out of their control.
God is love,and not evil,and it goes against the nature of God.We have a choice in our salvation,but God gets the glory for no man comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person calls Jesus,Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,and God will work with the person to get them to the truth,but they have to make the final push to open the door,but without God interceding in their life,they would not have gotten to that point.
There are many people that claim Jesus as Lord,and He is come in flesh,and confess Christ as Savior,that go against OSAS,but God must be working in their life,for no person believes those things unless God is working in their life.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it already happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrances.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Lamb slain from the foundation of the world,future event.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
Prophets blood slain from the foundation of the world,future event.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world,but Jesus said to His disciples,I go away to prepare a place for you,future event.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
All works finished from the foundation of the world,future events.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened.
When the Bible says the saints are predestined to salvation does not mean God chose who will be saved,and not saved,in the beginning without their input,but it means that God already had that plan of salvation to give to mankind in the beginning,so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants that salvation,for God commands all people to repent,come to the truth,and be saved,and Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all people,and is the Savior of the world,that takes away the sins of the world,and lights every person that is born in to this world,which means everyone can see the truth of Jesus and be saved,if they accept,and the Spirit and bride,say,Come,anybody that wants salvation can have it,and God is no respecter of persons,but anybody from any nation that wants salvation can have it.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Jesus did His job of providing salvation,and when we are saved then the responsibility falls on us,for God will not twist our arm to live for Him,and do right,but we must make that decision to keep doing what is right to be saved.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,because your life on earth is not over yet,and you still have time on this earth,and must take responsibility to keep doing what is right,for if you do not continue in God's goodness,hold unto sin,not representing goodness,and live like Christ,and do not correct yourself,then you will be cut off.
You better check yourself,before you wreck yourself,and the Bible says check yourself to see if you are in the faith,for some people waver from the faith,not having the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,that God hates sin,stop doing it,and His kingdom based on love,so stop catering to your wants,and help the poor and needy.
Without the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,and in violation of that,then faith is compromised.
After we are saved,then responsibility falls on us to maintain that salvation,and wanting to have a Christlike attitude,and not be worldly,for those that love the world,or the things in the world,they are not of the Father.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Blessed is the person that endures temptation,does not play on it,and does not sin,for they shall receive the crown of life,and is given to all who love Jesus,so it is eternal life.
Do not err people.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That is how the children of God,and the children of the devil,are known,the person that does righteousness is of God,the one that sins,holds unto sin,is of the devil.
If they say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with Christ,they will hold unto sin,and then they are not of God,unless they correct the situation.
The sad thing is not too many correct their situation,but live the remainder of their life holding unto sin believing they are alright with God,which they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and that is what the people that said to Jesus that they did this,and that,but Jesus said they were workers of iniquity,so they could not dwell with Jesus,which all who name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This is referring to the saints that hold unto sin,if they correct themselves it will save their soul from death,so what does that tell us.
Sin does affect our relationship with God,and sin separates us from God,regardless if we abide in the truth,or in the world.A person that holds unto sin is not in salvation position,and God said if they continue like that and do not correct it they will be cut off.
Let us look at what Jesus said to the Churches in Revelation,which it is obvious He is saying to the ones that went astray,to repent,and if not then they will not have salvation.
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Jesus told them to repent,and if they do not He will remove their candlestick out of his place,which there is a possibility they could lose out on salvation,for Jesus would not give that warning to remove their candlestick if they did not repent.
These are saints,and it is obvious that they confessed Christ,and right at one time,but went astray,and Jesus told them to correct themselves,or their candlestick would be no more,which might mean their light will be distinguished.
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
If they do not repent of the error of their way,Jesus will fight against them with the sword of His mouth.
This does not sound good that people that confessed Christ,but did not repent,Jesus would fight against them.
But OSAS saved says sin does not affect their relationship with God,all is well.
Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.
They say works does not have anything to do with salvation,but Jesus said if they overcome,and keep His works unto the end,they will be right with Him.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Again do not repent,and Jesus is against them.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
This Church attitude is out there in the world big time,with all the people believing the prosperity Gospel,which the Bible says they suppose that godliness is gain(material,monetary),from such withdraw yourself.
Concerning Paul and James.
Paul was speaking to the Gentiles,and their false religions,that tried to find favor with God,but Paul told them that only by accepting Christ can they find favor with God.Only faith alone,and not saved by works,because they were fleshy,and their works as filthy rags,so all they could have is faith alone,for their works would never measure up.
James is speaking to the saints that received the Spirit,that they have to have works of the Spirit to have faith active in their life,which if they say to a person that is hungry,or another need,and say,depart in peace,and be warm,and filled,but do nothing to help them with their needs,then faith without works is dead,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,and do not quench the Spirit.
Paul-faith alone,not saved by works,when a person initially confesses Christ,for they are still fleshy.
James-a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after they are saved being spiritual,for the responsibility falls on them to do what is right,and if we do not labor for the kingdom of God,doing what the Spirit wants us to do,then we are disobedient,and to obey is better than sacrifice,no obedience,no sacrifice,and if a person holds unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away,for God will not take something from you that you hold unto.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
A Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,will show the characteristics of the Spirit,and not the flesh,and will have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts,and a Spirit led life will abstain from sin.
If a person does not want to sin,hates sin,wants to represent goodness,and have a Christlike lifestyle,by the Spirit it is possible.
But that does not mean they might not sin,but they will get rid of it and continue on in the Spirit.
A person led of the Spirit might sin,but they will get rid of it,and continue on in the Spirit.
A person not led of the Spirit will hold unto sin thinking that they are alright with God.
So I am not buying God chose who would be saved,and not saved,in the beginning without their input,there is no responsibility on us to maintain our salvation,works does not have anything to do with salvation,faith alone,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with Christ.
That is fleshy thinking.
But God gave the Old Testament,and then the responsibility fell on them.
God gave the New Testament,and when we are saved,then the responsibility falls on us,for Jesus did His part,shed blood to wash away our sins,and to be able to receive the Holy Spirit,to empower us to live a life like Christ.
They try to take away the responsibility of the believers,and take away the chance that they might fall.
So they interpret everything that way,and that is why they say God chooses in the beginning who will be saved without their input,and faith alone,and works have no bearing on their salvation,and they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God.
They take away everything to where all that a saint has to do is confess Christ,and all that is needed,to where even holding unto sin,and not getting rid of it does not hinder them.
They take away everything,sin does not affect them,they cannot fall,they do not have to have works if they do not want to,but that is not what the Bible says.
Jesus did His part in providing salvation,and when a person accepts,then the responsibility falls on them to maintain that salvation,for the Spirit will not force us to live for God,so we have the responsibility to maintain our salvation,and did they receive the Spirit at all.
Stop putting it on Jesus as not to take responsibility,for He did His job,now do yours and allow the Spirit to lead you,and abstain from sin.The Spirit will not force us to live for God,so we have to make the decision to keep ourselves right by wanting to abstain from sin,and doing that.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God wants all people to be saved,and Jesus gave a Himself as a ransom for all,and is the Savior of the world,and lights every person that is born in this world.
God is love,and not evil,and if God chooses who will be saved without their input,then His kingdom is not true love,and if He does not choose who will be saved without their input,then He is condemning people for no reason,and why would they be responsible for their sins,if they cannot help but be disobedient,out of their control.
God is love,and not evil,and it goes against the nature of God.We have a choice in our salvation,but God gets the glory for no man comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person calls Jesus,Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,and God will work with the person to get them to the truth,but they have to make the final push to open the door,but without God interceding in their life,they would not have gotten to that point.
There are many people that claim Jesus as Lord,and He is come in flesh,and confess Christ as Savior,that go against OSAS,but God must be working in their life,for no person believes those things unless God is working in their life.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it already happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrances.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Lamb slain from the foundation of the world,future event.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
Prophets blood slain from the foundation of the world,future event.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world,but Jesus said to His disciples,I go away to prepare a place for you,future event.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
All works finished from the foundation of the world,future events.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened.
When the Bible says the saints are predestined to salvation does not mean God chose who will be saved,and not saved,in the beginning without their input,but it means that God already had that plan of salvation to give to mankind in the beginning,so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants that salvation,for God commands all people to repent,come to the truth,and be saved,and Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all people,and is the Savior of the world,that takes away the sins of the world,and lights every person that is born in to this world,which means everyone can see the truth of Jesus and be saved,if they accept,and the Spirit and bride,say,Come,anybody that wants salvation can have it,and God is no respecter of persons,but anybody from any nation that wants salvation can have it.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Jesus did His job of providing salvation,and when we are saved then the responsibility falls on us,for God will not twist our arm to live for Him,and do right,but we must make that decision to keep doing what is right to be saved.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,because your life on earth is not over yet,and you still have time on this earth,and must take responsibility to keep doing what is right,for if you do not continue in God's goodness,hold unto sin,not representing goodness,and live like Christ,and do not correct yourself,then you will be cut off.
You better check yourself,before you wreck yourself,and the Bible says check yourself to see if you are in the faith,for some people waver from the faith,not having the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,that God hates sin,stop doing it,and His kingdom based on love,so stop catering to your wants,and help the poor and needy.
Without the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,and in violation of that,then faith is compromised.
After we are saved,then responsibility falls on us to maintain that salvation,and wanting to have a Christlike attitude,and not be worldly,for those that love the world,or the things in the world,they are not of the Father.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Blessed is the person that endures temptation,does not play on it,and does not sin,for they shall receive the crown of life,and is given to all who love Jesus,so it is eternal life.
Do not err people.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That is how the children of God,and the children of the devil,are known,the person that does righteousness is of God,the one that sins,holds unto sin,is of the devil.
If they say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with Christ,they will hold unto sin,and then they are not of God,unless they correct the situation.
The sad thing is not too many correct their situation,but live the remainder of their life holding unto sin believing they are alright with God,which they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and that is what the people that said to Jesus that they did this,and that,but Jesus said they were workers of iniquity,so they could not dwell with Jesus,which all who name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This is referring to the saints that hold unto sin,if they correct themselves it will save their soul from death,so what does that tell us.
Sin does affect our relationship with God,and sin separates us from God,regardless if we abide in the truth,or in the world.A person that holds unto sin is not in salvation position,and God said if they continue like that and do not correct it they will be cut off.
Let us look at what Jesus said to the Churches in Revelation,which it is obvious He is saying to the ones that went astray,to repent,and if not then they will not have salvation.
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Jesus told them to repent,and if they do not He will remove their candlestick out of his place,which there is a possibility they could lose out on salvation,for Jesus would not give that warning to remove their candlestick if they did not repent.
These are saints,and it is obvious that they confessed Christ,and right at one time,but went astray,and Jesus told them to correct themselves,or their candlestick would be no more,which might mean their light will be distinguished.
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
If they do not repent of the error of their way,Jesus will fight against them with the sword of His mouth.
This does not sound good that people that confessed Christ,but did not repent,Jesus would fight against them.
But OSAS saved says sin does not affect their relationship with God,all is well.
Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.
They say works does not have anything to do with salvation,but Jesus said if they overcome,and keep His works unto the end,they will be right with Him.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Again do not repent,and Jesus is against them.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
This Church attitude is out there in the world big time,with all the people believing the prosperity Gospel,which the Bible says they suppose that godliness is gain(material,monetary),from such withdraw yourself.
Concerning Paul and James.
Paul was speaking to the Gentiles,and their false religions,that tried to find favor with God,but Paul told them that only by accepting Christ can they find favor with God.Only faith alone,and not saved by works,because they were fleshy,and their works as filthy rags,so all they could have is faith alone,for their works would never measure up.
James is speaking to the saints that received the Spirit,that they have to have works of the Spirit to have faith active in their life,which if they say to a person that is hungry,or another need,and say,depart in peace,and be warm,and filled,but do nothing to help them with their needs,then faith without works is dead,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,and do not quench the Spirit.
Paul-faith alone,not saved by works,when a person initially confesses Christ,for they are still fleshy.
James-a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after they are saved being spiritual,for the responsibility falls on them to do what is right,and if we do not labor for the kingdom of God,doing what the Spirit wants us to do,then we are disobedient,and to obey is better than sacrifice,no obedience,no sacrifice,and if a person holds unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away,for God will not take something from you that you hold unto.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
A Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,will show the characteristics of the Spirit,and not the flesh,and will have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts,and a Spirit led life will abstain from sin.
If a person does not want to sin,hates sin,wants to represent goodness,and have a Christlike lifestyle,by the Spirit it is possible.
But that does not mean they might not sin,but they will get rid of it and continue on in the Spirit.
A person led of the Spirit might sin,but they will get rid of it,and continue on in the Spirit.
A person not led of the Spirit will hold unto sin thinking that they are alright with God.
So I am not buying God chose who would be saved,and not saved,in the beginning without their input,there is no responsibility on us to maintain our salvation,works does not have anything to do with salvation,faith alone,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with Christ.
That is fleshy thinking.
Just a friendly warning sister, unless you are willing to omit the 4 gospels as correct and eternal truth, which it is, some of the ones on this thread will make it thier goal to convince others you are a attacking and slandering ive had one particular go find un related comments and bring them back as "evidence" and then the rest of the pack will become like a lynch mob with grace torches that demand no condition whether Jesus said so or not. leads to alot of arguing and confusion. i end up putting them on ignore, but its like they are attracted to the truth and make it a mission to stop it before people see through the gog.
How many of us have heard Billy Graham on TV say - "Come and receive Christ because He died for you to obtain your eternal forgiveness."
Oh...but wait - before you come to receive Christ - you must forgive your mother-in-law and you must forgive anyone in your past that has done something against you. If not then God will not forgive you - even though Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
That is not the gospel folks.
If we mix up the Old and New Covenants then we get a mess and ruin the purpose of both of them. Jesus said if we put new wine in old wineskins or put new cloth on an old shirt - both are ruined.
Jesus was born under the law to redeem them that were under the law. Jesus was the greatest Law teacher and He taught the Law and expanded on it so that people will come to an end of themselves and see that they need a Savior and not rely on their own works-righteousness which is living by what they do or don't do.
Jesus also was the greatest grace teacher and brought grace to those that knew they needed Him.
The words of Jesus brought what ever was needed to the person hearing His words. To some it brought the death of their own self-reliance or it hardened their hearts toward Him. To others His words brought life and peace and joy.
The very same words of the Lord Jesus brought different things to different people although they consisted of nothing but true life in them.
Jesus Himself is the gospel of the grace of God.
Oh...but wait - before you come to receive Christ - you must forgive your mother-in-law and you must forgive anyone in your past that has done something against you. If not then God will not forgive you - even though Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
That is not the gospel folks.
If we mix up the Old and New Covenants then we get a mess and ruin the purpose of both of them. Jesus said if we put new wine in old wineskins or put new cloth on an old shirt - both are ruined.
Jesus was born under the law to redeem them that were under the law. Jesus was the greatest Law teacher and He taught the Law and expanded on it so that people will come to an end of themselves and see that they need a Savior and not rely on their own works-righteousness which is living by what they do or don't do.
Jesus also was the greatest grace teacher and brought grace to those that knew they needed Him.
The words of Jesus brought what ever was needed to the person hearing His words. To some it brought the death of their own self-reliance or it hardened their hearts toward Him. To others His words brought life and peace and joy.
The very same words of the Lord Jesus brought different things to different people although they consisted of nothing but true life in them.
Jesus Himself is the gospel of the grace of God.
Here in Mark 10:17-23 is Jesus speaking the law of Moses to the Jewish man asking Him "What must "I do" to inherit eternal life?"
The law of Moses is all about "doing".
Jesus said to "keep the commandments in the law of Moses." The guy said he had. Jesus then said - go and sell all that you have and follow Me. He went away sad.
He had actually broken the very 1st commandment as he had money as his true "god".
The law of Moses is all about "doing" in order to receive from God which is what all works-based/ works-righteousness belief systems are build off of.
The gospel of the grace of God in Christ is "Believe - it is finished."
Now when someone comes to you and says "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" Do you say "Keep the law of Moses?" No, we now know the true gospel is. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".
Here is an example of rightly dividing the words of Jesus in context with the Old Covenant and the New Covenant we live in now and so we boldly preach the New Covenant of the grace of God for it is the word of His grace that builds us up and gives us our inheritance that is in Christ. Acts. 20:32.
Thank you for the opportunity to preach Christ again and His wondrous grace to all of us....Bless you...
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Oh...but wait - before you come to receive Christ - you must forgive your mother-in-law and you must forgive anyone in your past that has done something against you. If not then God will not forgive you - even though Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.<<<< ridiculous logic, his disciples HAD accepted Him lol thats WHY he was teaching them and He forgave several people before He died.
That is not the gospel folks.<<< Jesus says plainly i came for the purpose of teaching the good news of the Kingdom.
If we mix up the Old and New Covenants then we get a mess and ruin the purpose of both of them. Jesus said if we put new wine in old wineskins or put new cloth on an old shirt - both are ruined. << Jesus is the mediator of the covenant, that means what He says is the covenant of reconciliation thats what a mediator does.
Jesus also was the greatest grace teacher and brought grace to those that knew they needed Him.<<< He is the same yesterday today and forever and He makes plain whether jew or gentile, there is no favoritism all have the same way .
The words of Jesus brought what ever was needed to the person hearing His words. To some it brought the death of their own self-reliance or it hardened their hearts toward Him. To others His words brought life and peace and joy. <<< not one place in scripture supports this.
The very same words of the Lord Jesus brought different things to different people although they consisted of nothing but true life in them. the only truth to this sentance is the last 9 words
again not a single place will you find this statement "Jesus Himself is the gospel of the grace of God."
so again bruce does what Jesus said of the Kingdom of God apply if he says
john 8:51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death."
i can show every single thing i said in the nt......
That is not the gospel folks.<<< Jesus says plainly i came for the purpose of teaching the good news of the Kingdom.
If we mix up the Old and New Covenants then we get a mess and ruin the purpose of both of them. Jesus said if we put new wine in old wineskins or put new cloth on an old shirt - both are ruined. << Jesus is the mediator of the covenant, that means what He says is the covenant of reconciliation thats what a mediator does.
Jesus also was the greatest grace teacher and brought grace to those that knew they needed Him.<<< He is the same yesterday today and forever and He makes plain whether jew or gentile, there is no favoritism all have the same way .
The words of Jesus brought what ever was needed to the person hearing His words. To some it brought the death of their own self-reliance or it hardened their hearts toward Him. To others His words brought life and peace and joy. <<< not one place in scripture supports this.
The very same words of the Lord Jesus brought different things to different people although they consisted of nothing but true life in them. the only truth to this sentance is the last 9 words
again not a single place will you find this statement "Jesus Himself is the gospel of the grace of God."
so again bruce does what Jesus said of the Kingdom of God apply if he says
john 8:51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death."
i can show every single thing i said in the nt......
Claiming people "hate" someone is a tactic that is used by people to shut down opposition to a view differing to the person attacking with this tactic.
It belies low self esteem about the position the attacker is trying to defend. Similar to calling someone a racist for saying ANYTHING negative about Islam.
I realize that there are some who have yet to fully embrace the one true Gospel unto Salvation. That God wrapped Himself in human flesh, in the form of Jesus Christ. He was born of a virgin woman, conceived by the Holy Spirit, suffered, was crucified, died, and God raised Him from the grave on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.
Confess Jesus as Lord, believe in your heart He rose from the dead and you WILL be saved. We CANNOT ADD ANYTHING to that Gospel for our Salvation. To do so is an insult to god.
Now there is PLENTY we should do after we are saved and filled by the Holy Spirit, but none of that has anything to do with our Salvation.
So some who have yet to have the Holy Spirit reveal the beauty and simplicity of this Gospel need for us to have patience and love with them even when they use tactics such as saying disagreement equates to hatred.
It belies low self esteem about the position the attacker is trying to defend. Similar to calling someone a racist for saying ANYTHING negative about Islam.
I realize that there are some who have yet to fully embrace the one true Gospel unto Salvation. That God wrapped Himself in human flesh, in the form of Jesus Christ. He was born of a virgin woman, conceived by the Holy Spirit, suffered, was crucified, died, and God raised Him from the grave on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.
Confess Jesus as Lord, believe in your heart He rose from the dead and you WILL be saved. We CANNOT ADD ANYTHING to that Gospel for our Salvation. To do so is an insult to god.
Now there is PLENTY we should do after we are saved and filled by the Holy Spirit, but none of that has anything to do with our Salvation.
So some who have yet to have the Holy Spirit reveal the beauty and simplicity of this Gospel need for us to have patience and love with them even when they use tactics such as saying disagreement equates to hatred.
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