Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

Meggido · May 17, 2017

Consider Acts 5.33-39
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But when they heard this, they were cut to the quick and intended to kill them. [SUP]34 [/SUP]But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined up with him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. [SUP]37 [/SUP]After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered. [SUP]38 [/SUP]So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; [SUP]39 [/SUP]but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.

There are times you will learn not to speak out agaisnt what you think is not of God. This is not shifting blame it is called wisdom.

This is exactly my stance on Joyce Meyer. I do not know her or her teachings, so instead of jumping on your own opinion, I would rather say nothing at all.

I jumped on Derek Prince on another thread, because his book clearly teaches things against the Bible. I come agaisnt John MacArthur because he clearly quenches the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Grace777x70 · May 17, 2017

I have chosen not to interact with those that have shown to be continuously exhibiting bad behavior.

It's ok to agree to disagree on things but bad behavior needs to be addressed and if no change happens - it is best just to do what Paul says and the "avoid them".

No good comes from interacting with these types of behaviors as it just causes strife and vision amongst us.

Galatians 5:25-26 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

[SUP]26 [/SUP] Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

Romans 16:17 (KJV)

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Corinthians 15:33-34
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Be not deceived: bad company corrupt good manners.

[SUP]34 [/SUP] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

preacher4truth · May 17, 2017

Meggido said:

This isn't instruction from God. Learn the difference between Biblical protocol we are to follow, and that which isn't direct instruction from God. It would contradict other clear Scripture of how the church is to expose false teachings. You're not familiar with 2 Timothy 2:15 and aren't skillful in the Word.

It would be wise to see this as God intervening to protect His servants instead of a reason for you to go against those exposing false teachers, a passage you later don't heed according to your misapplication and misunderstanding to yourself. You also use it inconsistently to protect false teachers you admire.

If your interpretation was consistent and true, it would apply to yourself as well concerning Derek Prince. But, of course, you give yourself a bye:

Uh-huh. You've been given enough information on Meyer to make a determination - you're being willfully ignorant and cherry pick who you defend and attack. You're inconsistent and sanctimonious. Seems to be a pattern with you.

See? We get it. When others expose heretics "Wrong!!!" when you do as in the case of Derek Prince "It's of God." and Acts 5 doesn't apply to you.

As far as MacArthur, you're accusations are unfounded, slanderous libel and remain completely undocumented. You dislike him because you're a closet WoF believer yourself but won't come out and admit it under this moniker.

Grace777x70 · May 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Where we don't compromise on is salvation by grace through faith in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

So, if I don't answer back - you know what has happened.

preacher4truth · May 17, 2017

Let me add this concerning the oft misused words of Gamaliel to defend false teachers. (This wouldn't be necessary if others would simply employ 2 Timothy 2:15 and spent more time in the Word exercising discernment rather than arguing on their keyboards 20 hours a day, making erroneous judgments perpetually)

GAMALIEL'S COUNSEL

The little that is known of Gamaliel seems to indicate just such a man as would be likely to have given the advice in the text. His was a character which, on its good side and by its admirers, would be described as prudent, wise, cautious and calm, tolerant, opposed to fanaticism and violence. His position as president of the Sanhedrin, his long experience, his Rabbinical training, his old age, and his knowledge that the national liberty depended on keeping things quiet, would be very likely to exaggerate such tendencies into what his enemies would describe as worldly shrewdness without a trace of enthusiasm, indifference to truth, and the like.

It is, of course, possible that he bases his counsel of letting the followers of Jesus alone, on the grounds which he adduces, because he knew that reasons more favourable to Christians would have had no weight with the Sanhedrin. Old Church traditions make him out to have been a Christian, and the earliest Christian romance, a very singular book, of which the main object was to blacken the Apostle Paul, roundly asserts that at the date of this advice he was ‘secretly our brother,’ and that he remained in the Sanhedrin to further Christian views. But there seems not the slightest reason to suppose that. He lived and died a Jew, spared the sight of the destruction of Jerusalem which, according to his own canon in the text, would have proved that the system to which he had given his life was not of God; and the only relic of his wisdom is a prayer against Christian heretics.

It is remarkable that he should have given this advice; but two things occur to account for it. Thus far Christianity had been very emphatically the preaching of the Resurrection, a truth which the Pharisees believed and held as especially theirs in opposition to the Sadducees, and Gamaliel was old and worldly-wise enough to count all as his friends who were the enemies of his enemies. He was not very particular where he looked for allies, and rather shrank from helping Sadducees to punish men whose crime was that they ‘preached through Jesus a resurrection from the dead.’

Then the Jewish rulers had a very ticklish part to play. They were afraid of any popular shout which might bring down the avalanche of Roman power on them, and they were nervously anxious to keep things quiet. So Gamaliel did not wish to have any fuss made about ‘these men,’ lest it should be supposed that another popular revolt was on foot; and he thought that to let them alone was the best way to reduce their importance. Perhaps, too, there was a secret hope in the old man’s mind, which he scarcely ventured to look at and dared not speak, that here might be the beginning of a rising which had more promise in it than that abortive one under Theudas. He could not venture to say this, but perhaps it made him chary of voting for repression. He had no objection to let these poor Galileans fling away their lives in storming against the barrier of Rome. If they fail, it is but one more failure. If they succeed, he and his like will say that they have done well. But while the enterprise is too perilous for him to approve or be mixed up in it, he would let it have its chance.

Note that Gamaliel regards the whole movement as the probable germ of an uprising against Rome, as is seen from the parallels that he quotes. It is not as a religious teaching which is true or false, but as a political agitation, that he looks at Christianity.

It is to his credit that he stood calm and curbed the howling of the fanatics round him, and that he was the first and only Jewish authority who counselled abstinence from persecution.

It is interesting to compare him with Gallio, who had a glimpse of the true relation of the civil magistrate to religious opinion. Gamaliel has a glimpse of the truth of the impotence of material force against truth, how it is of a quick and spiritual essence, which cannot be cleaved in pieces with a sword, but lives on in spite of all. But while all this may be true, the advice on the whole is a low and bad one. It rests on false principles; it takes a false view of a man’s duty; it is not wholly sincere; and it is one impossible to be carried out. It is singularly in accordance with many of the tendencies of this age, and with modes of thought and counsels of action which are in active operation amongst us to-day, and we may therefore criticise it now. - John Trapp

Rockrz · May 17, 2017

If your Bible has a Book of John Trapp... you might want to get a new one.

Why not go with scripture?

ForthAngel · May 17, 2017

Rockrz said:

Sometimes, yes.

The rest of this is ridiculous. I own almost nothing as it is and depend a lot on loving family for a place to live. I have literally almost nothing and am also in poor health so...

Guess my faith is lacking or something huh? Contentment is a beautiful thing. Coveting is a deadly thing.

You might benefit from paying attention to these inspired words:

1 Timothy 6
False Teachers and True Contentment
Teach and urge these things. 3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain, 7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. 8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

Rockrz · May 17, 2017

That's false doctrine... the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy and Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly.

OK... let's take this slow.... God is GOOD, the devil is BAD

Good God, devil bad

Think you can grasp this simple concept taught by Jesus???

Sounds like you need to quite listening to those that are teaching you that God wants you to be sick... and you need gainful employment.

There is no biblical doctrine of God wanting His people to be poor and sick... so your little false teacher quote needs to be directed towards those that are teaching you that God wants you to be sick and poor... they are the false teachers.

Nobody is saying worship money or that we will not experience trouble in this life... but dude, you need to read the ENTIRE Word of God and quit being a cherry picker... er not, you're call ya'll.

ForthAngel · May 17, 2017

Rockrz said:

I've read the entire thing, several times over the past couple years. What about you?

If your desire is to be rich and healthy, that isn't the abundance being talked about. That desire is evil and is exactly what the devil promises those who follow him. I am content with where I am at. I would like a job, but there are some complications that I am working on overcoming at the moment. If God has it in his will to heal me, so be it, and if not, so be it. If he wants me to win the lottery, so be it, or if he wants me to live day by day and paycheck to paycheck, so be it. If he wants to put me in the streets, so be it. I leave it all in his hands and don't treat him as a genie to grant my every wish. He knows what is best for me and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Here is what Jesus says on the matter:

19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

I'll continue to follow him where he leads and not your health and wealth prosperity gospel, thanks.

Rockrz · May 17, 2017

MY desire if to have what Jesus Christ paid for me to have... being well in every area of my life happens to be His idea, not mine. Jesus said seek first God's Kingdom and all these things will be added unto you (Matthew 6:33). Jesus did not lie about this and He did not stutter.

satan is just the opposite and has the desire for me to reject what Jesus paid for and be like a lot religious minded Christians who don't know what's in their Bibles and be poor, broke, depressed, on welfare, and on medication that results in harful side effects causing early death.

I know better cause I study God's Word and make it my business to know what Jesus paid for me to have.

God is good and brings good... the devil is bad and brings bad.

ForthAngel · May 17, 2017

Rockrz said:

Paul must have fallen short of what Jesus paid for then and rejected it:

5 On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses— 6 though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

What about Timothy? His faith must have been pretty bad to have "frequent stomach ailments".

22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure. 23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

You really do reject a lot of the bible to be preaching to me about looking at it as a whole. Nice little verse here and there to support your false gospel.

ForthAngel · May 17, 2017

Let's actually look at the context of the verse you mangled to fit your position:

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Nothing there about riches. All I see are bare minimums.

preacher4truth · May 17, 2017

Just wondering. These who take Scripture out of context, and make the Gospel a false gospel of perfect health, 5th wheels, mansions, jets, huge bank accounts, speaking things into being &c;

Are these the things they offer to others when they talk to them of the "good news?" It better be, this is the theme of their message, and is the focus of their false gospel. It isn't focused on sanctification, freedom from sin, true godliness (which is averse to gain) suffering, tribulation, pain, true faith, death, peace in spite of circumstances &c.

Is this the "christ" they present to others, one who is a bellhop granting all their wishes?

Their message isn't any different than an address during a University graduation. "You can be whatever you want to be (you're little gods) and you can have as much as you want, follow your dreams (covetous idolatry)."

Both messages are the same. One attempts to package it in biblical garb while twisting Scripture in order to do so, the other unashamedly is purely secular in its approach and is a twist on truth. Neither focus on the coming judgment of man. Both messages are the same and lead to the same end.

Osteen, Meyer, White, Hinn, Duplantis, Copeland, Brown and many others, including some on here -- this is representative of their false gospel.

ForthAngel · May 17, 2017

preacher4truth said:

I'm sure it's how it's presented by them, yeah. Look at how evil that is though when those who buy into their nonsense are immediately slammed by the world, with debt, deaths, cancer and other ailments, and everything else life throws at us. The poor lost souls that bought into their lies will turn around and curse God for it. And they are then told it's their own fault, even conditions entirely outside of their control.

They wanna blame these things on "lack of faith", but there are countless documented cases of people "having faith in God to heal" to the point of death, completely refusing medical care, and against all better judgment letting their disease or affliction ultimately kill them. If that isn't faith, I dunno what is. There are many cases throughout the past five or six decades of children being refused medical attention because of the "faith of the parents" and their conditions worsening and leading to death in many cases.

Anyone who can't see the damage wrought by the health and wealth gospel are deluded and blind.

Just one of many reports available.

Rockrz · May 18, 2017

No, Paul carried the stress and worry of the churches he was responsible for which was an open door to satan to slap him around.

2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

Jesus speaks of not worrying as well...

Luke 21:34
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life

John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled

Lots of people open the door to the enemy to slap them around because they worry to much which is not trusting God.

It's a false religious minded lie of satan that Paul was sick and God never healed him... Paul was used by God to heal people and even raise the dead so the man certainly understood ho to walk in God's power.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

This passage clearly says it was a messenger of satan... not from God... from satan! Surely you don't think God would call someone to go do something... and then try to prevent him from doing it, right?

This was simply the devil following Paul around trying to keep Paul from being successful. satan followed Jesus around trying to do the same thing, but Jesus was much more knowledge about the Word of God (after all Jesus IS the Word of God in the flesh!) than Paul so Jesus just walked away and did not allow satan to get a foothold.

Jesus is our Lord and Savior, He is the One was are called to be like and to follow... not Paul, so why not look at Jesus and be like Him???

Besides, Paul grow in the Lord in his later years to where nobody was slapping him around anymore... the last record we have of Paul in scripture is in the end of the Book of Acts:

Acts 28:30
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

It says Paul lived in his own rented house for 2 years preaching with NO man forbidding him!

Nah, you're just a scoffer... one of those glass half empty naysayers who believes satan's lies... that's not gonna end well for you and your carnal minded, man-made religion that cherry picks which verse you believe and which ones you reject.

satan is well pleased with your religious viewpoint cause it's an open door for him to slap you around anytime he wants... enjoy!

Rockrz · May 18, 2017

Here's a few promises of victory for those scoffers to enjoy rejecting and coming up with excuses as to why some passages in God's Word are not for us today... which is a lie of the devil!

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Galatians 3:13-14
Jesus Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law (of sin and death), being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangs on a cross....that the blessing of Abraham would come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

2 Corinthians 1:20
All the promises of God in Him are yes, and in Him amen (so be it), unto the glory of God by us.

Romans 8:29-31
For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren....moreover who He did predestinate, them He also called: and those He called, them He also justified: and those He justified, them He also glorified....what shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Hebrews 4:14-16
We have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession (confession of the promises in the Covenant)....for we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin....let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Ephesians 5:1,2
Be ye therefore followers (imitate, to act like) of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also has loved us.

Philippians 2:5,6
Let this mind (understanding, vision, and point of view) be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus....who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal (similar, agree, like) with God (causing intimate interaction in Covenant with God, to intimately know and have fellowship with Him)

1 John 4:16-19
We have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him....herein is our love made perfect (mature, grown up), that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world....there is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect (mature, grown up) in love....we love Him, because He first loved us.

Isaiah 48:17
So says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD your God which teaches you to profit (to have gain, be valuable, to do good), which leads you by the way that you should go.

2 Peter 1:4
whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the Divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (carnal, physical desires based on the physical senses and the wisdom of this world).

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

1 Corinthians 2:16
We have the mind (understanding, knowledge, vision, perception) of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 10:3-6
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds )
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

1 Corinthians 2:12,13
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God....which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

James 1:25
Who ever looks into the perfect law of liberty (Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus), and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

John 16:13-15
The Spirit of truth (the Holy Spirit) has come, He will guide you into all truth (God’s Word is truth) for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come....He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you....All things that the Father hath are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

Ephesians 4:22-24
Put off concerning the former lifestyle the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 1:13
God has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the Kingdom of Jesus Christ:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the remission of sins:

Ephesians 2:5,6
Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ, (by grace you are saved

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 3:9,10
Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

followjesus · May 18, 2017

preacher4truth said:

truly evil spirits come from doctrines created by demons, Just as the Holy spirit is created in us through the word of Christ. the title comes to mind

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving HEED TO seducing spirits, and DOCTRINES OF devils; 2SPEAKING lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron"

this is why it is so paramount to stick to the word of truth, through His Word, comes the spirit of truth. through the word of satan we died and through the word of Christ we are resurrected. there is spirit attatched to every piece of Knowledge we take in and believe.

SovereignGrace · May 18, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Again, will you please address these Joyce Meyers beliefs? This is the THIRD time I have asked you to, btw..

Jesus ceased to be God (no longer deity/lost his divine essence)
Jesus suffered at the hands of demons in hell
The atonement didn't take place on the cross
Believe all this or you aren't saved
Jesus was the first born again man
People are little gods (in the divine/deity sense) - not in this clip but is something she teaches in line with all WoF teachers
Christians are sinless (if not, Jesus died in vain according to her)

Are these Meyerisms heresy? Yes or no?

Rockrz · May 18, 2017

Exactly!

Just so you know... nobody is obligated to answer you

I mean, who do you think you are???

A liberal news anchor trying to get an interview with conservative politicians er something?

Those guys always act like somebody owes them something when ain't nobody owes them nuthin!

The best advice someone can give you is... DON'T listen to Joyce Meyers!

dcontroversal · May 18, 2017

The Holy Spirit points to and glorifies Jesus....anyone who makes more to do about the Spirit is not being led by the Spirit....end of story!

Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

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