Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

ForthAngel · May 25, 2017

I'll go one more paragraph for the benefit of others. Rockrz seems to have bailed out on me.

13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul starts out here giving an instruction to those speaking in tongues, that they pray to be able to interpret. He continues to say why, which is, "if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful". Well, not so bad huh? At least half-way good right? Not according to Paul because he goes on to pose the question "What am I to do?" and answers immediately "I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also". This completely discredits the gift of tongues as some private prayer language unless the speaker can also translate (still human languages folks). Paul is in fact instructing against it unless it can be understood intellectually. There is no benefit to the person otherwise.

He also brings up the point that not only is it unfruitful for the speaker, but also for outsiders for they cannot agree with something they don't even understand and it won't build them up (that whole love thing again). He then takes it back to the church and discredits its use in the assembly as well and brings back to light the benefit of the mind and understanding what is being said.

Angela53510 · May 25, 2017

Denadii said:

Are you kidding me? I spent days praying and researching this, and wrote it myself. I did reference it, using a number of sources especially a pamphlet by Gordon Fee.

I did say I copied and pasted it, but I meant from my own files and research. In other words, the work is mine, I just reposted it rather than write it from scratch again!

As for it being rot, it is probably over your head and too hard for you to understand! Maybe when you have studied the Bible a bit more, we can discuss this!

preacher4truth · May 25, 2017

Angela53510 said:

Meh, don't concern yourself with the slanderous drivel sister. Your post is appreciated by those who love and know the truth though others attempt to rend the author and turn to trample on what was given. Keep on keeping on.

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

Angela53510 said:

When we have a Father who is so good and kind we follow Him because we know He loves us first by sending His son., then He shows us how He is also our Provider in every other way as well. But He can't force us to take from Him we need to be in agreement with Him. Many Christians are not in agreement with healing provisions and so many will not be healed at all. All the healing they need could be there just waiting for them but they will not see it or taste and see that the Lord is good in that way too because they don't believe Him.

The Lord doesn't force us to believe. He is gentle and kind and offers His hand. It is us who are stupid and looking around like Peter did when he walked on the water with Jesus. He began looking at the REAL water under his feet and the REAL wetness and the REAL terror he felt in his gut. And so he began to sink.

He is just like us. We look at alllll the things around us and we feel it all and experience it all via our minds and our bodies ailments and allow it all to come into our hearts so much so it will block out the words of Jesus that He WILL be the Way the Truth and the Life for us. In Him we will find all we need and all that pertains to life and to Godliness.

Just as many who say there is no healing there are many more who know there is healing in Jesus Christ. They know the power of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with their own goodness or rightness. It has to do with what Jesus has already done for them. And as they come to trust and rely on Him., they also learn to take freely from Him without being forced to. That is our Savior.

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

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[TD="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextContent, align: center"]…I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”
Exodus 15:26[/TD]
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[TD="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextContent"][h=2]- MAY 25 -
LET IT GO![/h][HR][/HR]After crossing the Red Sea, the children of Israel came to a place called Marah. The waters there were bitter. That is why the place was called Marah, which means “bitter”. The Israelites could not drink any of the water, so the Lord made the bitter waters sweet. (Exodus 15:23–25) Then, He brought up the subject of the diseases of Egypt and, for the first time, revealed Himself to His people as “the Lord who heals you”.

Why did the Lord suddenly mention the diseases of the world (Egypt represents the world in the Bible) at a place called “bitter”? What do diseases have to do with bitter waters? I believe that it is because He wants His people to know that a major cause of diseases in their bodies is harboring bitterness and resentment!

Some years ago, a lady shared with me about her sister who had died of cancer at a young age. She said, “Pastor Prince, a number of years before she passed on, she went through a very bitter divorce. She was very bitter toward her ex-husband.” Then, she asked me, “Is there a relationship between her bitterness and the cancer?”

I have studied the subject of healing for many years. I have read many books. I have listened to many sermons and I have sat under many healing ministries. And they all say the same thing: If you have unforgiveness in your heart long enough, that unforgiveness can sometimes translate into a disease in your body.

So if you have been bitter about something or someone, it is time to let it go! Your health, joy and life are more important. If you are already sick and you know that bitterness has something to do with it, let it go! See Jesus as your healer. He is standing at your place of bitterness today and He is saying to you, “My child, I can make your bitter waters sweet. I am the Lord who heals you.”

My friend, let it all go and let Jesus heal not just your diseases, but your broken heart too!

Destined To Reign Devotional by Pastor Joseph Prince. 5/25

Perfect message for today and for your thread Angela.

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PeterJens · May 25, 2017

Denadii said:

Unfortunately saying something is "pure rot" is just slander and insult.
Anyone could say this about anything or anyone else, and no one would be any the
wiser, only the person disagrees.

So if you claim to follow Jesus, either you can say you disagree, which would be polite,
or you give the reasons why you disagree so others can understand your legitimate points.

I have seen young person after young person claiming they will bring healing to the world,
and people will rise up healed, and nothing happens, or a few reports of pain relieved.

If is pure delusion with millions of Christians, youtube that if this miraculous healing of
thousands or hundreds, or 10 would not be reported. But it is one or two, occasionally.

People hold healing crusades with the desire for real healing testimony. Nothing appears.
Churches claim wonderful insight, or even God now using a mobile phone.

[video=youtube;ytgG309D5RU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytgG309D5RU[/video]

Iamlearning · May 25, 2017

trofimus said:

"Word of Faith... teaches that Christians can access the power of faith or fear through speech...
The basic doctrine preached is that of wealth and health..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith

Ok, some of you reacted to the "health" part, I will post something to "wealth" part.

The Bible clearly says that to be rich is not the part of the Gospel or even the Christian goal to achieve:

"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes.
Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days."
James 5:1-3

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:23

"Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction."
1Tm 6:9

"Looking at his disciples, he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
Luke 6:20

Just to make it clear: Do these riches directly and clearly refer to money? Because the promised boons by God could be rather referring to other kinds of blessings in your life (for instance the Gifts of the Holy Spirit) I would like to believe it so, it would make sense to me. Many many Blessings thanks

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

When I think of posting on CC about healing I especially consider those who are not healed. I've thought how my posts of assurance that we can indeed be healed because of the promises of the Bible will effect them. I'm hoping it will be for the positive and give hope where there is none. Just as His promises do for me. Just as getting on the road to any type of healing or learning is at times instant and at times progressive even by the inch as the devil will always try to sway us not to believe by getting our eyes off of the promises and onto our situations.

I know that my good intentions will not be always seen by some here but this is a forum and I'm not in your house taking care of you and talking to you. I do however go visit my dear friend in her house as she is steadily going down as cancer is working on her. She is not able to see past her dizziness and fear.

She holds on to the securities of life that are her daughters visits and keeping her house in order. Even in her chair placement she is hanging onto the least bit of power and security she has. I know this is normal for those who are ill and for those who have not heard there is healing available in Christ. This is also normal for a Christian who has not heard about healing or has heard and doesn't believe in that interpretation because too many people have been sick and died all around them in their lives.

I also think this topic is not to be argued about nor should we do the sword fighting of my verse is bigger than your verse.

Anyone who is offended at people who believe in healing and those who have it needs to step back. So also should those who are offended at others who do not believe in healing and don't have it. Same as speaking in tongues. We must hold to the promises of the Bible and see the major need to do so when horrors come into our lives.

Horrors will come and the need for hope and faith should be even more given testimony to. This world will throw it's horrors at us every day. We could look at our lives as if we are on the edge of a cliff with our tip toes holding on as the rest of our bodies are thinking of making supper tonight. That is our reality as humans.
We live in a world of death and destruction yet time moves on and although we are tortured in our minds when we consider our predicament ., the rest of the world and reality still goes on around us.

But we do have the One Person who keeps us in and through it all. Jesus promises to take our days and make them days for Him. I don't know how He does it but His Holy Spirit keeps hanging onto me solely because I'm one of the beloved. Because of Jesus. It's not for me to think about my cliff side realities. What I'm to do is look to Jesus and depend on the Holy Spirit to keep me steady.

Even and especially during the horrors seen in life. Holding on to what He has promised is how to get through it all. That is the real battle in all this so we do not lose hope in His love for us and His watch care over us. To keep reading His Word and reading His healing promises making them a part of our minds then it gets into our hearts. That is what changes us and brings the healing.

To keep reliving over and over why a person is not healed and never will be using verses out of context is not something I will willingly do because that is what will shut off any growing faith IN His love and promises. Angela is free to share why she believes there is no healing in the atonement but I am free to give testimony on the other side. And may the Lord bless all of us in our growing.

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

Iamlearning said:

Since God gave us His greatest gift., His Son Jesus., why do people think He will not give any of the lesser gifts to His children? Faith believing gives Him the opportunity to work in our lives for His good and our good as well. We get to share in the blessings because we are His. And because we need His blessings to be successful because we can't do it on our own. We need to be like that guy who asked God to bless him and God certainly did. (forgot the guys name) But there was a popular book written about this man in the Bible.

“Which is easier, to say [to the paralytic], ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’?” (Luke 5:23)

Romans 8:32
[SUP]32 [/SUP]He who did not spare [even] His own Son, but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, graciously give us all things?

PennEd · May 25, 2017

joaniemarie said:

Your neighbor sounds like she is not a Christian. The idea that disturbs me about your belief in healing is twofold. First, I don't know any Christians that don't believe God CAN heal them, or ANYBODY else. Second, the idea that God will always completely physically heal Christians leaves no room for God's Glory to be made manifest in other ways.

We recently had a woman in our study group who died of breast cancer. From the moment of her diagnosis, to 7 YEARS LATER, when she passed with a glowing smile on her face, she spread the joy and love and Gospel of our Lord to hundreds and hundreds of people. From Drs. to nurses and hospital staff, to others suffering disease as well. It is likely her faith and testimony was used FOR GOD'S Glory to bring many to Christ.

Lastly, no matter how kind or well intentioned your desire is for others to experience what you have, and I genuinely believe you want the best for your brothers and sisters, it is unavoidable that your position boils down to someone NOT being healed because they simply don't have a strong enough faith.

I know you have a beautiful heart, but please see the truth in what I have said. I AM NOT saying that God caused someone to be ill. I am saying that God can and does use that affliction for His Glory and OUR ultimate good.

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

1 Chron.4:10
Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, saying, “Oh that You would indeed bless me and enlarge my border [property], and that Your hand would be with me, and You would keep me from evil so that it does not hurt me!” And God granted his request.

sevenseas · May 25, 2017

oh pooch

turned into a healing vs tongues vs cessationist vs the supernatural vs the paranormal vs I said you said she said thread

I would say I am surprised, but not really

it was difficult to find a pup with almost the same color of eyes as me

the ears are similar also. they got stretched from listening to everyone's POV here

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

PennEd said:

I hear what your saying PennEd and I'm sure you have a beautiful heart too. But it's not about my heart or yours. It's about the healing power of Christ in our lives. It's just as wrong if we go by your logic to dis allow the sharing of healing. For there are just as many on either side of this in the Christian world.

I'm as sure as I am about anyone else that my dear friend is saved. She has been a Christian for many years. She has also been in control in all those years. Just like we all have been and many still are 'in control of their lives. When we go through trials it doesn't mean we are bad or unloved in God's eyes. When we get sick it doesn't mean God loves us more or less than when we were healthy.

What it means is we are on this planet walking out our faith and learning as we go. Giving testimony to the saving power of Christ. And as we go and walk in the faith we have, like your friend yes, we give out the glory to God and trust Him in spite of our illness. I don't know your friend but she sounds like she gave out the saving power of Christ to all those she came in contact with. Praise Jesus!

And in that I see like many other Christians live., they share what they know. If we don't know about something we can't tell about it. And if we don't believe in something we won't live it out or share it. We can only share what we believe and know.

I believe there is always healing available and that Jesus always heals those who ask. As far as that process goes., that is not for me to understand. But the HolySpirit teaches each one of us on an individual basis. I would not disrespect anyone and say they must live and believe the same as I do. And I'd say the same about you too and anyone else on this matter of healing.

I've seen enough in my life to know what seems obvious to us limited beings is totally doable for the Spirit of God to do. Let me say this we all have much to learn when it comes to living out this life of faith. There is so much to Jesus Christ and His love for us that it will take a life time and into eternity to learn. We have only scratched the surface.

Jesus is the beginning and the end., the Alpha and the Omega... The power to do healing is in His hands and He says He is willing. I'll go with that and walk it out how ever long that takes and keep learning in the process. We have never "arrived" at all that we need to know in order to live here on earth or in heaven. Just when we think we have it down pat., the Holy Spirit brings in like waves more good news, more blessings in Christ.

Iamlearning · May 25, 2017

joaniemarie said:

OK thank you I get from this that the boons from God can also mean money, not necessarily but it is a possibility. On the other hand, asking for money (to live) wouldn't be the same as asking to be a millionaire right? I am referring to the Bible verses that say that rich people won't get to Heaven. Do I get it right? Thanks for the answer God Bless

ForthAngel · May 25, 2017

sevenseas said:

You shouldn't be surprised. You kinda started this last one here and here and some random "I never use bible verses in context if I even use them at all" here. And then someone who almost never makes any sense jumped on that train here. I don't even have to mention Rockrz part that he played since he just likes to hop in the fray anywhere and listen to himself talk as I'm sure we are all well aware of by now.

ForthAngel · May 25, 2017

To all those who want to strip the context of OT passages meant for other people, why aren't you all kings and queens and Presidents or something swimming in your gold and diamonds every night in your immortal perfectly healthy sinless bodies? Just wondering.

joaniemarie · May 25, 2017

Iamlearning said:

A millionaire

I wonder why everyone thinks everyone else who is a Christian who is blessed will always want or will want to be a millionaire? And why some believe they need to pray that God doesn't make them a millionaire because they believe they will not be able to handle it. God can always teach us how to handle His blessings and He does it really well.

There is something amazing when we see a blessed person share their blessings so others are also blessed. That is spiritual and Godly.

It's the LOVE of money that is the sin because the LOVE of money will prevent a person from trusting in God. God blesses His children with money all the time so how could money keep us out of heaven? .

And those who have money are always going to be looked at with a suspicious eye because other people don't like rich people. Rich people in some cases have an awful reputation. In the hands of a glutton., a rich person is a slob. But in the hands of a Godly person a rich person is a saint. But some will still look at the rich person with disdain simply BECAUSE they are rich.

Christians especially need to get out of the group of pointing fingers., suspecting and judging others. We all do it and it takes time to unlearn our old ways of relating with people. Rich people go to heaven all the time. It's the unsaved rich person that doesn't go to heaven., just like the unsaved poor person won't get to heaven.

We have to make it about what it IS ... Jesus. Our being accepted or not is found only IN Christ. Without Jesus there is no remission of sins. Rich or poor if you don't have Jesus you don't have life.

Blessings to you too Iamlearning.

preacher4truth · May 25, 2017

ForthAngel said:

Bingo!!! Concerning Jabez, God granted >>>> his <<<< request. Our requests for this do not retro back to this verse as if when we ask "in mustered up faith" then God somehow owes us something because "we believed with all our hearts." Any person who sees this as "Gospel" is a covetous idolater, thinks gain = godliness, and according to Scripture are to be shunned.

(ever notice this "mustered up faith" nonsense is like the false prophets of Baal trying to call down fire? I have.)

These who preach this false gospel are perpetually trying to come dressed in sheep's garb with their false teaching of biblical faith and false gospel. The sheep won't be hoodwinked forever by that false gospel, and many never at all - and that thought needs to be deeply considered.

preacher4truth · May 25, 2017

ForthAngel said:

Oh, but they make frequent trips to heaven, so, it's all good.

Iamlearning · May 25, 2017

joaniemarie said:

A millionaire

I wonder why everyone thinks everyone else who is a Christian who is blessed will always want or will want to be a millionaire? And why some believe they need to pray that God doesn't make them a millionaire because they believe they will not be able to handle it. God can always teach us how to handle His blessings and He does it really well.

There is something amazing when we see a blessed person share their blessings so others are also blessed. That is spiritual and Godly.

It's the LOVE of money that is the sin because the LOVE of money will prevent a person from trusting in God. God blesses His children with money all the time so how could money keep us out of heaven? .

And those who have money are always going to be looked at with a suspicious eye because other people don't like rich people. Rich people in some cases have an awful reputation. In the hands of a glutton., a rich person is a slob. But in the hands of a Godly person a rich person is a saint. But some will still look at the rich person with disdain simply BECAUSE they are rich.

Christians especially need to get out of the group of pointing fingers., suspecting and judging others. We all do it and it takes time to unlearn our old ways of relating with people. Rich people go to heaven all the time. It's the unsaved rich person that doesn't go to heaven., just like the unsaved poor person won't get to heaven.

We have to make it about what it IS ... Jesus. Our being accepted or not is found only IN Christ. Without Jesus there is no remission of sins. Rich or poor if you don't have Jesus you don't have life.

Blessings to you too Iamlearning.

Ok thank you I think I finally get it, it is the LOVE of money which is sinful not praying for money (or having/earning honest money). It actually makes sense. Same for health I assume. I suffer much more of love and need of health, actually. I guess one can also be greedy on being loved (by other humans) My conclusions at least. Thank you for the explanation many blessings

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