Consequences of sinning

[PeterJens]

Matthew 6:9-13New International Version (NIV)

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.’

Jesus was the final atonement for sin past, present, future.

So why pray for forgiveness?

Generosity, grace, love unbounded, rushing, flowing, accepting, like a wave washing all
before it. In the rush you might believe it would wash away all unrepentant hearts, turn
evil doers round, melt everyone.

But hard hearts see nothing, feel nothing, and only know the enemy who will judge them and
they hate this to death. Unless the heart turns around and repents its destruction is certain.

A heart of love forgives debts as well as sins, it is so loving and generous, so overflowing,
The King died on a cross of wood, iron nails driven into His hands and feet. And still He
said forgive them they do not know what they do.

 

[Chris1975]

This passage is not about being born again/salvation that part has been done.

Being born again is a work that God accomplishes in us, the writer is not teaching to stay born again, the writer is saying now that you are born again it is time to walk in the newness of that life and to stay focused on Jesus. Our heart can fall away from God but we cannot leave our standing as redeemed. We are born again by accepting and believing upon God's payment in full for our sins once we accept payment the transaction is completed. We are redeemed by Christ's work not our own and that is why we cannot loose our eternal life.

It is very important to separate out being born again a finished decree by God and then living in that newness of life that God has given us.

This is what the author is exhorting... to not fall away from being a disciple (learner) and resist the work of God in their lives and go back to the old ways of Jewish traditions. It is about discipleship learning who Jesus is....one has to want to learn about Jesus.

Scripture can only be understood within the finished work of Christ.

Do you actually believe what you typed in red above?

We are saved by grace through faith. If you no longer have faith, you are no longer saved by grace.

 

[Chris1975]

Desertsrose,

Let me put it this way with regards to salvation/born again.

When you accept Jesus as Saviour and believe in His finished work on the cross for you by faith then you are declared Innocent because the debt has been paid in full.

If the Judge has declared you INNOCENT of all crimes past, present and future based on the

acceptance by you of the payment of the debt, and the debt is indeed paid, how do you in

your free will undo the declaration of the Judge?

Unless perhaps you do not believe the Judge or you have not accepted the payment for yourself?

Think about it ...it is all done.... you will be blessed when you believe and see this!

Future - is conditional on repentance. You are not free to walk in your ongoing sins. You are to forsake them.

Even the past and present sins alluded to above is conditional upon the believer coming to Jesus in repentance, as per both the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus.

If you haven't repented, Undergrace, you are not forgiven. If you retain your sins, they are retained. If you forsake your sins, they are forgiven. Past and Present.

Your ongoing walk with the Lord is in victory, through the Grace of God.

 

[Chris1975]

Matthew 6:9-13New International Version (NIV)

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.’

Jesus was the final atonement for sin past, present, future.

So why pray for forgiveness?

Because what you say is true.

 

[Chris1975]

Im still a little gray in this area. Why are we told to pray this way when in

Hebrews 7
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

So why pray for forgiveness or does it have something to do with deliberate sin?

Hebrews 10
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Do we pray for forgiveness to give acknowledgment to our sins we know of so that we dont fall into a habit of them and also to strengthen our will to resist them and flee from them?

Roughsoul, no need to be grey on this.

Jesus' offering of himself as the lamb of God was sufficient, once and for all time, as a sacrifice for the sins of all who call upon the Name of the Lord in faith.

It requires repentance (Every prophet up to and including John the Baptist preached it, and too Jesus Christ). Where transgression is made, it necessarily requires subsequently godly sorrow, a contrite heart, a change of mind, and forsaking of that sin.

The evidence of our godly sorrow and contriteness is the fruit of walking in obedience henceforth. We cannot claim godly sorrow and yet continue in the same sins. That's not forsaking. That's just worldly sorrow.

Therefore your scriptures posted above are both true:

1) Forgive us (scope for having sins forgiven)
2) Yet deliberately walking in sins Heb 10v26 (no repentance mindset) makes the sacrifice of Jesus of no effect in your life.

 

[Chris1975]

Will make this nice and BIG so that everybody can see the truth:

Proverbs 28v13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.



You claim a legal right from Jesus for your forgiveness?
- have you confessed them?
- have you forsaken them?

If your side is not done, don't expect the legal contract to be fulfilled.

 

[Chris1975]

or its a lack of understanding. like the comment above notice the Long explanation of why jesus plain words just arent for chrisitans its as if they have found a different gospel because of the dangers of not gong through Jesus, instead looking to paul

2 peter 3:16-17 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. "

cant imagine the warning about Jesus Words anywhere in scripture...quite the opposite really

2 john 1:9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

1 timothy 6:3 -5"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words.......

truly a blinding doctrine the gog, very subtle and very circular in its ways of omitting the Living word. always an alternate explaination other than the gospel " these words you Hear are not mine, they Belong to God" seems Jesus said that many times.....

Hi Followjesus, in addition to a lack of understanding by these people, it is also the fact that God sends them a strong delusion, that they believe the lie, for they had no love of the truth. Thus when truth is presented, they reject it, for they love not the truth.

 

[graceNpeace]

Future - is conditional on repentance. You are not free to walk in your ongoing sins. You are to forsake them.

Even the past and present sins alluded to above is conditional upon the believer coming to Jesus in repentance, as per both the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus.

If you haven't repented, Undergrace, you are not forgiven. If you retain your sins, they are retained. If you forsake your sins, they are forgiven. Past and Present.

Your ongoing walk with the Lord is in victory, through the Grace of God.

I agree that we need to repent ongoingly as Christians - often - but not because our salvation is at risk.

The ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ are not the same - not by a long shot.
The baptism for repentance that John offered by no means gave salvation.
The work of Jesus Christ stands alone.

If we are Christians then committing a sin does not cancel our salvation.
The unmistakable conclusion of what you are saying is that we have to repent in order to get our salvation back.
Obviously, it seems you do not believe in assurance of salvation (and please do not come back at me with any nonsense about a license to sin).

I put it to you that either the work that Jesus Christ did on the cross is sufficient - or it is not.
If it is sufficient then it covers all sin.
If it is not sufficient then we are all dead in our sins with no hope.
There cannot be a situation as a Christian where only past sin is forgiven but future not.

Yes, we are to forsake our sins and a lifestyle of sin, and yes, we are to repent as Christians, not because we will lose our salvation but because we seek a closer relationship with God.
No born again Christian is without sin at any time. Sin lives with us whether we like it or not - a lot of the behaviour on this forum rather proves the point!
Sanctification is the process that a Christian undergoes once born-again in order to become more Christ-like - it is not complete in this lifetime. And for this reason we should never consider ourselves free of sin from the point of view of actually sinning. Salvation does free us from the consequences of sin but does not guarantee that we will not sin.

 

[Chris1975]

I agree that we need to repent ongoingly as Christians - often - but not because our salvation is at risk.

If your initial salvation required repentance (a change of mind) then your ongoing salvation requires continued repentance (a change of mind). Look back at post 346. Look at the contract. You say you are saved, ok. You say you have mercy, ok. Have you confessed and forsaken your sins? uhmmm.....

The ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ are not the same - not by a long shot.
The baptism for repentance that John offered by no means gave salvation.

All salvation was in Christ. From Abraham to present.

The work of Jesus Christ stands alone.

If we are Christians then committing a sin does not cancel our salvation.

It doesn't cancel our salvation. Not confessing and forsaking them will. 2 Peter 3v9 [SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[SUP][b][/SUP] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The unmistakable conclusion of what you are saying is that we have to repent in order to get our salvation back.
You have to repent in order to eat from the tree of life Revelation 2v7

Obviously, it seems you do not believe in assurance of salvation (and please do not come back at me with any nonsense about a license to sin).
Assurance of salvation is only available through faith. The walk of faith is victorious. Hebrews 3v18,19

I put it to you that either the work that Jesus Christ did on the cross is sufficient - or it is not.
It is sufficient to save, agreed. Do you understand the cross and His resurrection? Read Romans 6

If it is sufficient then it covers all sin.
All except the unforgivable sin

If it is not sufficient then we are all dead in our sins with no hope.
You are only without hope if you have rejected Christ, after having once believed (Hebrews 6v4-6)

There cannot be a situation as a Christian where only past sin is forgiven but future not.
I never said so. Future sin requires future confession and forsaking.

Yes, we are to forsake our sins and a lifestyle of sin, and yes, we are to repent as Christians, not because we will lose our salvation but because we seek a closer relationship with God.
Read post #346. No mercy otherwise.

No born again Christian is without sin at any time. Sin lives with us whether we like it or not - a lot of the behaviour on this forum rather proves the point!
Sanctification is the process that a Christian undergoes once born-again in order to become more Christ-like - it is not complete in this lifetime.
That's why we have Paul writing as he did in Philippians 3v12-16. Read it to understand.

And for this reason we should never consider ourselves free of sin from the point of view of actually sinning.
Scripturally incorrect. See Romans 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Salvation does free us from the consequences of sin but does not guarantee that we will not sin.

with respect.....

 

[Ariel82]

I do believe we are free of sin, while we stand in the presence of God through prayer.

He washes us clean and during that sacred time we are free of sin.

However when we are in this world, our sight is darkened by what we do not know. We can stumble and not shine God's light as we should or we can speak harshly without God's love to others or waste our precious time pursuing things that doesn't profit or glorify God.

That's why it's important to pray daily and allow God to wash us of the day's sins and remind us of who He created us to be. That is why it's important to forgive others as God has forgiven us before the setting of the sun.

Forgiveness is a daily activity. Our forgiveness of others is based upon God's daily forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Ariel82]

Our daily bread is more than just physical food for the body..,it is spiritual food for the soul.

Jesus is the Manna from heaven, the bread of Life. His Words are life giving waters poured into our hearts and spoken forth to heal the nations.

 

[Grace777x70]

So, I guess Peter and Paul had no idea of what Jesus said there before the Cross when they preached the gospel of the grace of Christ?

Look at the word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of Christ being preached and no where does it say to "forgive first or you will not be forgiven" I'll give you the exact scripture references . Peter - Acts 10:43 and Paul Acts 13:38

Have you ever heard Billy Graham say " Forgive people first before you come to receive Christ's forgiveness"?..of course not..it is anti-the gospel.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by mad-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.

This short video will show you the context of those scriptures in Matt 7.

 

[Grace777x70]

Are we saying that Peter and Paul had it wrong when they preached the gospel? How can we mis-interpret the scriptures that talk about forgiveness after the Cross?

Here's Peter..shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say -'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

There are many good truths we learn from the Lord's prayer but it was a transitional prayer until the kingdom came after Christ rose from the dead. The kingdom has come - we have forgiveness through the blood of Christ.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7[/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.

We forgive now in the New Covenant because it is our nature and we have received the forgiveness of sins because of the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.

 

[Chris1975]

Are we saying that Peter and Paul had it wrong when they preached the gospel? How can we mis-interpret the scriptures that talk about forgiveness after the Cross?

Here's Peter..shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say -'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

There are many good truths we learn from the Lord's prayer but it was a transitional prayer until the kingdom came after Christ rose from the dead. The kingdom has come - we have forgiveness through the blood of Christ.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7[/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.

Or we just respond with the Word of God:
[h=3]Matthew 18[/h][h=3]The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant[/h][SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt. <Jesus forgives first>

[SUP]28 [/SUP]“But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]So his fellow servant fell down at his feet[SUP][a][/SUP] and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]30 [/SUP]And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. <unforgiving servant doesnt> [SUP]31 [/SUP]So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ [SUP]34 [/SUP]And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. <servant goes to hell>

[SUP]35 [/SUP]“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”[SUP][c]


[/SUP]

 

[Grace777x70]

The parable of the unforgiven servant in which the kingdom of heaven "may be compared to".... Matthew 18

We need to read all scripture in context of the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross. To say that our sins are not forgiven in the believer after they cross is NOT the gospel.

We will forgive because we are in Christ now and have His nature in us - we need to have our minds renewed to this truth and we will walk in it.

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now where Christ dwells with us as one spirit- so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said ....

"If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin.

So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We need to preach and teach the true gospel of the grace of Christ so that the believer in Christ can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and walk out who they already are in their inner man - the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

When we see Christ as in a mirror - we see true selves being reflected back and the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in us now. 2 Cor 3:17-18

 

[Chris1975]

The parable of the unforgiven servant in which the kingdom of heaven "may be compared to".... Matthew 18

We need to read all scripture in context of the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross. To say that our sins are not forgiven in the believer after they cross is NOT the gospel.

We will forgive because we are in Christ now and have His nature in us - we need to have our minds renewed to this truth and we will walk in it.

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now where Christ dwells with us as one spirit- so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said ....

"If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them,cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin.

So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We need to preach and teach the true gospel of the grace of Christ so that the believer in Christ can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and walk out who they already are in their inner man - the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

When we see Christ as in a mirror - we see true selves being reflected back and the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in us now. 2 Cor 3:17-18

So you deny Jesus' words are applicable to us today. Feeling free to pick and choose what you want from the gospel I see?

When it doesn't agree with the Grace777 International Version (GIV) then its not applicable, but when the promises are nice and comfy then you are free to accept those.

 

[gb9]

So you deny Jesus' words are applicable to us today. Feeling free to pick and choose what you want from the gospel I see?

When it doesn't agree with the Grace777 International Version (GIV) then its not applicable, but when the promises are nice and comfy then you are free to accept those.

that is rather funny, that you would accuse someone of picking out verses to support theology, while you do it all the time, plucking out verses about works and sin, while ignoring grace and forgiveness.

some of ya'll need to invest in a good mirror, and look at your own sin, instead of attempting to point out what you preceieve as sin in others.

 

[Ariel82]

The parable of the unforgiven servant in which the kingdom of heaven "may be compared to".... Matthew 18

We need to read all scripture in context of the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross. To say that our sins are not forgiven in the believer after they cross is NOT the gospel.

We will forgive because we are in Christ now and have His nature in us - we need to have our minds renewed to this truth and we will walk in it.

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now where Christ dwells with us as one spirit- so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said ....

"If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin.

So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We need to preach and teach the true gospel of the grace of Christ so that the believer in Christ can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and walk out who they already are in their inner man - the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

When we see Christ as in a mirror - we see true selves being reflected back and the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in us now. 2 Cor 3:17-18

So when people sin and don't forgive others...does that mean they aren't saved and dont have that new sinless heart you speak about?

Or is that their "flesh" that sins?

How then does the sinless heart deal with the sinful flesh?

 

[Grace777x70]

So you deny Jesus' words are applicable to us today. Feeling free to pick and choose what you want from the gospel I see?

When it doesn't agree with the Grace777 International Version (GIV) then its not applicable, but when the promises are nice and comfy then you are free to accept those.

No but that is a nice attempt to "twist" what I am really saying. I believe in viewing all scripture through lens of the cross and resurrection of the Lord.

For example "Jesus told the rich ruler that he needed to keep the law of Moses - do the commandments - when he asked Jesus "What must I do" to inherit eternal life.

Jesus gave him the law of Moses to expose that in fact he had broken the very 1st commandment as he had money before God.

When people say today "What must I do to inherit eternal life - do we say - do the commandments in the law of Moses ? Of course not.

The gospel in the "New Covenant" after the cross and resurrection is this:

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[Chris1975]

2 Corinthians 12

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I <Paul> fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you <church at Corinth> such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; [SUP]21 [/SUP]lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented <do you see that repentance is required> of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.

Continued..

2 Corinthians 13
13 This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]I have told you before, and foretell as if I were present the second time, and now being absent I write[SUP][b][/SUP] to those who have sinned before, and to all the rest, that if I come again I will not spare— [SUP]3 [/SUP]since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now I[SUP][c][/SUP] pray to God that you do no evil, not that we should appear approved, but that you should do what is honorable, though we may seem disqualified. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. And this also we pray, that you may be made complete. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the authority which the Lord has given me for edification and not for destruction.

Are you in unrepentant sin? - 2 Cor 12v21 ; 2 Cor 13v2
Then you are not in the faith. - 2 Cor 13v5