The finished work of the cross ?

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Jun 1, 2016
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You are confusing the essence of faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation with the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith (obedience/good works) which follows and the end result is salvation based on works. You seem to be trusting in "your performance" as the basis of receiving eternal life rather than in Christ alone.
naw faith is faith check out Noah who is the heir of the righteousness of faith, he was given grace, heard gods word, believed it and did as commanded. Simple stuff. Faith is to hear gods word......and obey it because you believe it.

Theres no division of faith, it's just faith. Either we believe Gods word and receive faith, or we don't. Simple to me, but you know we all have the choice to believe or not or make our own interpretations. I just take the word of God to be what it is.....life
 
Jun 1, 2016
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And?

The mediator of the covenant?

is where?


I mean a covenant requires two parties
and this ONE entered behind the TRUE VEIL once and for all

and all those who look to HIM as their anchor enter in by THAT VEIL

If they don't enter in by THAT VEIL, they are not in HIM

And no man can come to the FATHER except through THAT VEIL


Now do you have any power to deter or bring on THE BAPTISM done by GOD?
Huh lol I don't understand anything you are asking friend. The mediator of the new covenant is Jesus, that's why he spoke the new covenant. A mediator is the one in between 2 parties who have a dispute. The mediator makes an agreement to reconcile the two separated parties. That's Jesus the one mediator between God and man.


thats the the reson his gospel is the new covenant. Things like " the covenant of grace" those are just made up terms by distort era meant to get people away from the thing that God has said. It's the reason gog believers have to ignore the real gospel and try to label it only the unconditional verses the. New covenant is really just the things Jesus said, and his death put that into power, and simultaneously left the law of Moses nailed to his cross. It's all about the mediator and his words, that was the point of sending Jesus, to testify to the truth ofGod, then die to set that gospel into place as the eternal covenant.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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naw faith is faith check out Noah who is the heir of the righteousness of faith, he was given grace, heard gods word, believed it and did as commanded. Simple stuff. Faith is to hear gods word......and obey it because you believe it.

Theres no division of faith, it's just faith. Either we believe Gods word and receive faith, or we don't. Simple to me, but you know we all have the choice to believe or not or make our own interpretations. I just take the word of God to be what it is.....life
Promise is a promise is a promise
 
Apr 23, 2017
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i think it would help much if we defined faith??????????????? this is what i found:

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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amen and people do that often by taking one verse and explaining why that one verse omits all the rest. If we are rooted in what Jesus taught, we can never be led astray by the rest of it, because it's all based on the gospel. God bless you it's nice to see you in the forums !
The question is did Jesus come to destroy the law? Does paul say we forget the law? The commands and word of God are holy and God will work in us to conform to his will. No one will disagree with this. People disagree on how this conforming happens. Is by our willful surrender to his will or does God make us conform against our will. Some see we are without free will before belief and others say we are without free will after belief.
 
May 12, 2017
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Was Paul addressing ALL men?

and you would need to continue on to revelation 7 to understand that we no longer live according to the dictates and deeds of the flesh but according to HIS SPIRIT which HE has caused to live in all those who believe by faith in HIM
your a TULIP this discussion is over.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
​ Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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naw faith is faith check out Noah who is the heir of the righteousness of faith, he was given grace, heard gods word, believed it and did as commanded. Simple stuff. Faith is to hear gods word......and obey it because you believe it.

Theres no division of faith, it's just faith. Either we believe Gods word and receive faith, or we don't. Simple to me, but you know we all have the choice to believe or not or make our own interpretations. I just take the word of God to be what it is.....life
No he's not

Noah is not the heir and I have NO IDEA what you are talking about friend


noah was simply a visual picture representing what being baptized into CHRIST looks like
 
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pottersclay

Guest
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
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naw faith is faith check out Noah who is the heir of the righteousness of faith, he was given grace, heard gods word, believed it and did as commanded. Simple stuff. Faith is to hear gods word......and obey it because you believe it.

Theres no division of faith, it's just faith. Either we believe Gods word and receive faith, or we don't. Simple to me, but you know we all have the choice to believe or not or make our own interpretations. I just take the word of God to be what it is.....life
id love for you to elaborate on Noah and where he fits in the promises given to Abraham

id also like to understand why GOD according to Hebrews swears an oath to Abraham and his seed but Noah isn't mentioned

why Abraham according to GOD's WORD is called the father of faith to those circumcised and uncircumcised

yet you by your own words claim it to be Noah
 
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pottersclay

Guest
Then Jesus prayed " is there any other way".
 
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pottersclay

Guest
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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You made your own interpretations


The promise was to Abraham

and Abraham believed GOD (even before he received the promise and even before he did any of the workings of the law (i.e.circumcision which was an outward mark signifying a Covenanted relationship with GOD) and it was credited to him
as righteousness

didnt you come across this in the letter to the Romans?

if you read 2 Peter 2 you will come across what Noah signified

it was baptism
being washed
immersed in the waters of baptism passing through the waters of baptism and being reborn a new eighth day creation in CHRISTB and
 
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pottersclay

Guest
id love for you to elaborate on Noah and where he fits in the promises given to Abraham

id also like to understand why GOD according to Hebrews swears an oath to Abraham and his seed but Noah isn't mentioned

why Abraham according to GOD's WORD is called the father of faith to those circumcised and uncircumcised

yet you by your own words claim it to be Noah
What did Abraham say or do that gave him the title father of faith?
 
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pottersclay

Guest
You made your own interpretations


The promise was to Abraham

and Abraham believed GOD (even before he received the promise and even before he did any of the workings of the law (i.e.circumcision which was an outward mark signifying a Covenanted relationship with GOD) and it was credited to him
as righteousness

didnt you come across this in the letter to the Romans?

if you read 2 Peter 2 you will come across what Noah signified

it was baptism
being washed
immersed in the waters of baptism passing through the waters of baptism and being reborn a new eighth day creation in CHRISTB and
What did he say or do?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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What did Abraham say or do that gave him the title father of faith?
He believed in GOD and this was credited to him as righteousness apart from any of the workings of the law

abraham heard GOD's VOICE FIRST

He left his father's house and went to a place that GOD would show him

he did this even before he was circumcised which was a sign of a Covenanted relationship with GOD

But THE PROMISE to Abraham came first
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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Actually let's elaborate about Abraham's PROMISE

Abraham would be the father of many nations
that through his promised son Abraham's seed would be reckoned

But it was never Isaac as the promised seed that GOD was pointing to from the beginning

it was CHRIST
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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naw faith is faith check out Noah who is the heir of the righteousness of faith, he was given grace, heard gods word, believed it and did as commanded. Simple stuff. Faith is to hear gods word......and obey it because you believe it.

Theres no division of faith, it's just faith. Either we believe Gods word and receive faith, or we don't. Simple to me, but you know we all have the choice to believe or not or make our own interpretations. I just take the word of God to be what it is.....life
Faith is faith and works are works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Simple stuff. Also, Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. Building the ark was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Faith is believing, trusting, relying and obedience which follows is works.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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The question is did Jesus come to destroy the law? Does paul say we forget the law? The commands and word of God are holy and God will work in us to conform to his will. No one will disagree with this. People disagree on how this conforming happens. Is by our willful surrender to his will or does God make us conform against our will. Some see we are without free will before belief and others say we are without free will after belief.
I think a huge point of misunderstanding is the differance in the covenant law, the ten commandments (which paul endorses by naminmg a few of them and then saying whatever other commandment there might be are breifly summed up in this one rule " Love thy neighbor as thyself. and the mosaic Law which was always meant to testify against sinners. Paul also talks of being made free of the law of sin that is in us because of adam, through the Law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus. which is the gospel.

pauls main opponent in His ministry were jews coming behind Him as the churches were esteblished on the gospel, they would then come and tell the people they needed to be circumsized and adhere to the mosaic Law. so much of what He says, is because of that. if you notice in His arguments its always relating to the festivals and ordinances of the mosaic Law, the mosaic Law is for the unrighteous, thos who live contrary to the 10 commandments which is the Covenant Law given By God written on stone by Gods hand, and then placed into the ark oif the covenant. the book of the Law of mises is far different, its a witness against those sinners. when paul is talking about dying to the law hes talking about the mosaic Law because it did not allow for certain sins to be repented of, such as adultery, cursing your parents, bearing false witness, murder, talking to a siviner or spiritist ect. instead those types of sinners were commanded to be put to death. One person who was the witness of the sin would cast the first stone and then the congregation would all gather round and toss rocks until the person was dead. there was no mercy in the Law of moses.

both the gospel, and the mosaic Law incorporate Gods Law of the ten commandments. the gospel is very opposed in priniciple in every way to the law of moses. Jesus says "forvie the sinner" Moses says condemn the sinner" Jesus says be merciful" Moses says " show no mercy, no pity" Jesus says turn the other cheek" moses says : eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth , life for a life" Jesus says many things like that completely contrary to the mosaic Law, its why they hated Him, the teachers of the Law i mean. On one hand he was doing miracles so they knew he had Power, on the other hand he was not teaching thier Law. he directly contradicts it with His teachings.

Pauls main opposition were the judaizers, he mentions it several times. its the reason that galatians was wroitten, and its also the reason for the gathering of apostles in acts. the mosaic Law had demands that were not Like the gospel, and were infact very contrary to the gospel. almost everything He taught was opposite or different in principle and directive. One is the witness against sinners as God says just before moses Death, then commands moses to write all of the commands of the mosaic Law down in a book and tells them to place it beside the ark, where it will witness against those who sin because its full of the punishments and curses for those who break the covenant law.


its always imoportant to know the old things to really understand what paul is saying, and really all the apostles are making points that needs Knoweldge of the Law, in order to understand the covenant Law, is different than the mosaic Law, and the gospel is different from the mosaic Law in every aspect. Jesus says " not one jot or titlle will disappear from the law until everything is accomplished, and then on the cross He says " it is accomplished" He also explains that " everything written about him in the law had to be accomplished" the mosaic Law is a foreshadow, a prophetic type that points to the messiah and His work, it actually speaks much about Jesus.


yeah the free will thing is absurd to me, but others have thier belief and its thier choce what to believe. God doesnt force anyone to do anything, Hes making an offer of eternal Life. His will is that all people come to repentance, but clearly not all people will come to repentance. if it was His choice everyone would repent and Live upright Lives in His sight and thus be saved and given the inheritance of eternal Life. His will, needs to be accepted by the believer freely because in the very beginning God gave man dominion over the earth and freedom to choose whether to keep His word in the garden and Live.

Gods will was that they not eat the fruit and satan added His will that they do through deception. the tree is the Knowledge of Good and also evil. it proiduces a double nature in man. avident in the first two men born, the first, murders the second. and then just 2 nd a half chapters later, God regrets even making man, because man was corrupt and so full of evil continually. the fruit was devastating to mankind, but free will is what it is, we stil have the free will to either Hear Gods word and believe it because He is God, or to reject it as if He is not God.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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When GOD called Abraham to sacrifice his promised son

antaham
sis not full understand what he was called to do

but he does now

and that sacrifice was a reenactment of the one and only acceptable and holy sacrifice of THE PROMISED SON...CHRIST


GOD knows our limited humanity
HE Knows we ever avd always need visible signs and reptesentations to
understand HIS higher hidden and spiritual truths

and HE graciously provided sign upon sign upon sign rearing is up to know HIM so that at the fullness of time when the body HE prepared from the foundation before the world ever was might come forth to do HIS WILL we would look back and bring to remembrance that all along GOD spoke of and pointed us to HIS SON


THE TESTIMONY of JESUS

IS

THE SPIRIT of PROPHECY