Not By Works

[FranC]

Let me ask you this...,,,since I stated that they all obeyed the law....are all of them saved? Will all of them have eternal life?

Is it necessary to obey (aka never sin) to be saved? No.

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith in Jesus death on the cross for the remission of sins, ressurection and ascension into heaven. Only those sealed with the Holy spirit and able to call God abba father have a true saving faith.the rest are just pretenders.

Is it necessary to obey (aka follow the Holy spirit) to become mature and grounded in Christ? Yes.

Therefore your question is incomplete.

Ahh another insult/lie instead of apology. I don't believe in easybelievism.

I hope that those reading along will notice how you refuse to answer a really simple question.

If you know english well, you should be able to know that my question was a complete sentence with all necessary grammatical parts.

Instead you would want me to play God and say who is saved and who isn't.
You could have that job, i dont consider myself able.

Here, ill help you...

Q: is it obligatory for us to do good works?
Or
Does God REQUIRE us to do good works?

A: YES.

See. Wasn't that easy??

 

[UnderGrace]

In context to that group of people that Jesus was speaking to that is the point....it is impossible for them to accomplish everything He set out in the Beatitudes.

Do you really think He was telling them to be perfect...then this makes Him only a very good man with a moral teaching of how to behave in life.

I find it interesting thinking the beatitudes are just to demonstrate how impossible it
is to walk like Jesus.

I would suggest this is what it means to be immature in Christ and what maturity actually
looks like.

And yes without the work of grace in our hearts, it is impossible to understand how our
hearts can flow to comfort those who mourn, to be meek, to be pure in heart, to hunger
and thirst for righteousness, to be a peacemaker, to walk like Jesus.

But this is the mystery of the walk of love and fellowship with our King as he changes
us through obedience and love.

Ofcourse for those who have never been truly transformed within this is all a pipe dream,
but the power of the cross is beyond our imagination, yet is the power of God to bring
us to heaven, perfect, pure and holy. Amen.

 

[FranC]

Amen UG......the life I know live I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD............he works IN US AND THROUGH US.....a very interesting point to be made.....

He had authority to lay his life down and TAKE IT UP AGAIN by the power and working of the Holy Spirit<--If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus dwell in you.......

Think about this...we live by his faith, his power, his Spirit dwelling in us.......that is why any work produced is of JESUS...apart from him we can do nothing....exactly why works do not save......they are the result of CHRIST already IN US BY FAITH.....

simple as even a child can understand it...........

Undergrace thinks Jesus taught to show us how stupid we are?

And you agree with him?

No comment necessary.

 

[dcontroversal]

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
1 cor 10:1-5

It is an interesting warning by Paul, that even though we drink from Christ, we
can still fail and be cast out.

Again context is ignored to espouse and teach something the bible does not each......shakes head at the utter rejection of context.....there is a rest and peace to be found in this life....it has nothing to do with them losing salvation.....wake up to the truth.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Undergrace thinks Jesus taught to show us how stupid we are?

And you agree with him?

No comment necessary.

Maybe your ignorant of sheep....by their very nature they are dumb and need to be led.....and any comment you may or may not have....like water off a ducks back

 

[FranC]

In context to that group of people that Jesus was speaking to that is the point....it is impossible for them to accomplish everything He set out in the Beatitudes.

Do you really think He was telling them to be perfect...then this makes Him only a very good man with a moral teaching of how to behave in life.

Undergrace,

I have some time available to me.
Would you like to do a bible study in Mathew?

You might be able to really learn something true instead of heretical ideas that our christian church really fought againt.
I encourage you to learn the truth.
God does His part and you must do your part.

 

[UnderGrace]

Here I will answer....

No it is not obligatory to do good works either for salvation or to keep salvation.

Good works may or may not be an indicator of salvation.

There are many people that could pass the observable good behaviour test and still not be regenerated and redeemed.

I hope that those reading along will notice how you refuse to answer a really simple question.

If you know english well, you should be able to know that my question was a complete sentence with all necessary grammatical parts.

Instead you would want me to play God and say who is saved and who isn't.
You could have that job, i dont consider myself able.

Here, ill help you...

Q: is it obligatory for us to do good works?
Or
Does God REQUIRE us to do good works?

A: YES.

See. Wasn't that easy??

 

[Ariel82]

"Living in the House of Grace" is a metaphor for Jesus.

My point is that the writer to Hebrews is telling the believers that they still needed to be taught the first principles
of God once more, because they were still needing Milk (first principles) but they needed to move on to spiritual maturity which is found in the meat.

The reason they were still feeding on the milk was because they were UNskillful in the word of RIGHTEOUSNESS which is Jesus, instead they were reverting back to the Law and keeping the Law or trying to repeat the first stages (Milk, the first principles) of their conversion to the faith in Jesus

While certainly "meat" carries with the ability to discern false teaching this is a result from being skillful in the word of Righteousness

Salvation is by righteousness, righteousness is found in Christ, that Righteousness becomes ours by faith. The meat is faith in the Righteousness of Christ, not reverting to obeying the law.

Okay..thanks for clarifying. Will have to ponder it. Still not sure if I agree with the metaphor,

 

[PeterJens]

Again context is ignored to espouse and teach something the bible does not each......shakes head at the utter rejection of context.....there is a rest and peace to be found in this life....it has nothing to do with them losing salvation.....wake up to the truth.....

Read what Paul is saying. They drank from the rock which is Christ, yet God was not
pleased with most of them, their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Now to kill people is not rejection and judgement, then what is?
I do not mind you putting a real alternative across, but to just be dismissive is pointless.
I hope you understand Pauls heart. He is emphasising walking in the way of Jesus is
everything, to treat it with contempt is to fail to see what the gospel and Christ is all
about.

 

[FranC]

A nice coined reply phrase....no one states what you imply.....other than it is NOT NECESSARY to gain and or KEEP salvation......!!

You replied for Roxanne?
And didn't even answer my points.

Can't get a straight answer from any of the easy believers and cheap gracers.
The others are writing some beautiful stuff.
That agrees with God's word, btw.

 

[dcontroversal]

i'll take this one-

following the Law saves no one.

you , me , and no one else can keep the Law to the perfection it requires to earn salvation. we are saved by grace alone.

now, that is settled. go ahead with your next points so I can set you straight on them also.

Their very doctrine proves they are not saved....why...whoso sells out under the law must keep the whole law 24/7/365 their whole life and if they offend in one point, the least point they are guilty of the whole.....and the fact that she bears false witness about what we believe automatically places her in the failing group.....WE DO NOT TEACH TO DO NOTHING AFTER BIBLICAL SALVATION...that is a lie!

 

[dcontroversal]

Here I will answer....

No it is not obligatory to do good works either for salvation or to keep salvation.

Good works may or may not be an indicator of salvation.

There are many people that could pass the observable good behaviour test and still not be regenerated and redeemed.

Not to mention that some saved have works of wood, hay and stubble.............

 

[UnderGrace]

Too Funny!!! Learn the truth ...I know where you are I was once there, in bondage to a half Gospel which is no Gospel at all


.....God did it ALL...That is the true Gospel!!


God is not a God of half measures. In Adam we all died..... in Jesus we are Born Again never again to be lost.

His perfection is our perfection.

Believe it and accept ... be set free as only He can do!!!

Undergrace,

I have some time available to me.
Would you like to do a bible study in Mathew?

You might be able to really learn something true instead of heretical ideas that our christian church really fought againt.
I encourage you to learn the truth.
God does His part and you must do your part.

 

[Ariel82]

Those folks cast out has the same level of faith as demons and constantly rejected God. They received the blessings from God but never accepted the Gospel message of have a saving faith. They were under the Old covenant. The law that found them sinners and condemned. Most did not accept the prophecies of a Messiah or trust in that promise.

Abel did. Moses. David. Isaiah. John the Baptist. Anna. Simeon

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
1 cor 10:1-5

Many will be rejected because they either have the intectual faith of demons or the heathen faith of being rewarded for their service.

How many actually have a saving faith in Jesus finished work upon the cross?

 

[FranC]

A nice coined reply phrase....no one states what you imply.....other than it is NOT NECESSARY to gain and or KEEP salvation......!!

You say it's not necessary?
Not nesessary to do good works?

Now the truth comes out.

Cheap gracer.
You mock the cross.

 

[dcontroversal]

You replied for Roxanne?
And didn't even answer my points.

Can't get a straight answer from any of the easy believers and cheap gracers.
The others are writing some beautiful stuff.
That agrees with God's word, btw.

The fact that you use the coined phrase cheap graces is hilarious....the reason...your dogma reeks of cheap grace....as in it is not sufficient to save you or keep you saved...you must help your Jesus keep his word and finish what he said he would finish....what a joke.....BTW.......

 

[dcontroversal]

You say it's not necessary?
Not nesessary to do good works?

Now the truth comes out.

Cheap gracer.
You mock the cross.

Take it up with Paul..he was inspired and your are not....your dogma....faith plus works to obtain or maintain salvation....a lie, false, no power and all who hold to it...called fools and bewitched.....in reality you mock the cross and join your pal who states that Jesus is not enough....no..it is you who mocks the cross and devalues/waters down the blood of Christ by your own cheap labor.....

 

[UnderGrace]

Proud to be an "easy believer" and a "cheap gracer" because the Gospel message is to good to be true, that people cannot believe it.

Yup.... just like Jesus said few are able to find it because they always have to put themselves in mix of the Good News and it is not about them it is about what Jesus accomplished completely and fully!

You replied for Roxanne?
And didn't even answer my points.

Can't get a straight answer from any of the easy believers and cheap gracers.
The others are writing some beautiful stuff.
That agrees with God's word, btw.

 

[FranC]

We do not follow the external law ....but the law that is written on our hearts. The law written on our hearts is Jesus, our life is hid with Him.

When we lean into His righteousness He will finish what He has started.

No undergrace.
What is the external law??

What is the law written on our heart?

Jesus is not a law.
What does it mean that our life is hid with him?

What is His righteousness?
How will He finish what He started?
What did He start?

So many words...
Tell us what they mean.

Thanks.

 

[Ariel82]

If you only have this much faith in God. Then you are still a heathen and need to learn the true gospel of grace.

that God is; that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him;" and that he is to be sought by glorifying him as God, by giving him thanks for all things, and by a careful practice of moral virtue, of justice, mercy, and truth, toward their fellow creatures.

The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith