Not By Works

[FranC]

The entire Gospel of John is built on believing in the finished work of the cross and being born again in Christ!

[SUP]15[/SUP]that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
[SUP]16[/SUP]“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [SUB]ESV
[/SUB]
Believing is an action that one does, not an object or thing that one possesses; thus, the use of the word believing.
John uses the verb form to emphasize the act that is necessary for someone to be saved requires total dependence on the work of another.

That work is that Jesus, in His perfection, He having fulfilled the law, took on all our sins to atone, pay the debt and restore fellowship with the Father and was resurrected to new life.

By believing in that completed work, He becomes the propitiation for our sins when we accept/believe what he has done for us by faith on a personal level, we are justified and sanctified forever!

John did indicate that believing can be superficial when it is merely intellectual without resulting in true salvation (John 2:23- 24; 6:66; 12:42-43; see Jas 2:19).

Whoa!

I need more time for this one...

I do like one thing that I'll tell you right now...

You say BELIEVE is an ACTION.


VERY GOOD. Now we're getting somewhere.

So what exactly is that ACTION?

Also, you quote John 3:16

Did you notice that BELIEVE is ine present tense? You must believe at Death to be saved.

Further proof that eternal salvation is FALSE.

The rest is mixed up and I have to read it again.
Tomorrow. It's late here.

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you talkin' ta me?

WHEN have you EVER seriously answered a question.
You have your little spurts that you like to spurt.

I dont' go for spurts.
You, nor anyone esle, has EVER explained what BELIEVE means because it would be to your detriment.

I've asked you and Others here to explain the atonement, but no one ever has.
This is because your side does not really know WHY Jesus died on the cross.

In fact, Grace is the only one who makes any attempt at explaining scripture.

Give it a go Dcon.

Explain the atonement.
The one before 1,000 AD or the one after.

I'll take either one.

More misdirection and false rhetoric here.....a blind man can read thru and see that on numerous times I as well as most have explained the stance we take....including what faith means....like usual...you reject, sweep under the rug, misdirect and stand on your religious view hammered on your own anvil......keep working for it Fran......I will trust Jesus to keep his word and finish what he started...He does not need my help to save me or keep me saved...

 

[gb9]

NO.

Try harder.
Mr. Expert.

pisteuo is the greek word used for believe in the New Testament. the definition of that word is to affirm, have confidence in, be persuaded of.

if you do not like that definition, take it up with strong's concordance.

 

[FranC]

You of all people (based upon your boast of understanding English rather well) should know that much is lost in translation....The N.T. was inspired in GREEK with all of it's nuance and flavor........we would be fools to not pay attention to the verb tense that was inspired and possibly lost in translation......

Must I drop names again????
So you could make fun of me????

Those who translated the N.T. from Greek to English is a pretty darn good job, wouldn't you say?

I dare say that they know Greek a WHOLE LOT MORE than anybody on THIS thread or forum, most probably.

Or do you think we should all get a Ph D in Koinè Greek so we could find out how to REALLY be saved?

BTW, how am I doing with my English??

 

[FranC]

there you go fran. 2 definitions of belief. comments??

Believing is an action.

This is good.

But we're not there yet.

Let me ask you this:
If I believe you, do I want to do what you teach me to do?

 

[FranC]

My point is if believing repentance will keep me saved is a sin then is that a sin that i will be sent to hell for.. or will i just lose browny points becoz i also believe that faith keeps you saved...


Now am i sinning by saying This..

Its Jesus who keeps us saved after God has handed us over.... providing we obey his teachings Jesus says if you follow me and obey my commands i will know you are truly one of mine..


Jesus doesnt say here i will make you obey my commands or i will do the obeying for you...on your behalf..


He ask us to do that work for ourselfs..


Now looking at this from my point of view am i worthy of promoting a false doctrin on purpose and that i will go to hell for believing this..

or i am of the devil ?

Don't encourage him JIMBO.
it's not nice to tell people they're going to hell.

You just keep doing what you're doing.
Everything you've stated is 100% spot on.

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't encourage him JIMBO.
it's not nice to tell people they're going to hell.

You just keep doing what you're doing.
Everything you've stated is 100% spot on.

Not quite........

 

[FranC]

come on fran. you got the definitions of believe/ belief you wanted. go ahead, try to twist them, as you do most other things.

OK gb9.
ONE MORE TIME...

It's useless to quote verses that say we have to Believe in Jesus to be saved and that nothing further is required of us.

WHY?

Because of what the word BELEIVE means. We have so many Greek scholars here, it's Amazing they haven't been able to provide the meaning. Know why? It goes against the grain.

Of course, we'll read that we must BELIEVE to be saved. Believe in Jesus.

Believe means

trust the person
learn from the person
obey the person
agree with the person
do what the person teaches
use them as an example
follow them in all ways

You won't find this anywhere on Google. It's from theology. THIS IS WHAT BELIEVE MEANS IN THE GREEK.

You see, it's not that I don't like Greek or understand why we should look up words every now and then...
It's that those who want to distort the word of God by explaining words in Greek, usually end up making pretzels, if you know what I mean.

So, getting back to BELIEVE.

If I believe in Jesus, then I MUST DO EVERYTHING HE SAID TO DO.

I DO NOT have the right to think that I don't have to.

You see?
That one word makes all the difference.

I do hope that all reading along understand now what believe means.
It certainly IS an action word.

So, let's BELIEVE Jesus, and do what He instructed us to do.

 

[dcontroversal]

Must I drop names again????
So you could make fun of me????

Those who translated the N.T. from Greek to English is a pretty darn good job, wouldn't you say?

I dare say that they know Greek a WHOLE LOT MORE than anybody on THIS thread or forum, most probably.

Or do you think we should all get a Ph D in Koinè Greek so we could find out how to REALLY be saved?

BTW, how am I doing with my English??

Do what you think you need to do.....I am secure in my salvation and nothing you push will change my view....the bible is replete with verses that prove faith as the means of salvation....not works.....it is also condemns a café blend of faith and works for salvation as false....keep working your way there.....and see how that works out for you....

 

[gb9]

Believing is an action.

This is good.

But we're not there yet.

Let me ask you this:
If I believe you, do I want to do what you teach me to do?

the Biblical definition of believing is posted in # 12803. if you are interested in actual Biblical truth, which, I doubt.

 

[UnderGrace]

My intention was to show the faultiness of your reasoning according to scripture.

It would seem you are not able to justify your line of thinking with scripture, so I guess I have proved my point that our outward behavior may or may not be an indication of our salvation in Jesus.

People can be very good at giving a surface appearance of doing good works.

Thanks UnderGrace.
I guess I'm a White Washed Tomb.

You learned this name-calling from Dcon?

Instead of quoting scripture and sticking to a discussion, you like to insult people?
That's very nice of you, I'm sure.

So, what do YOU do?
You tell your neighbor you're a Christian and then you beat their cat to Death because he stepped on your lawn?
Is THIS a good testimony?

Do you ever think of what you say before the words come out of your mouth?
Was that insulting?
See. Doesn't feel good, does it?

 

[FranC]

Sadly, you are listening to a false teacher, a very false teacher. Then because they do not understand the Gospel the blame cheap grace which does not even exist, since Grace emanates from God so how can it be cheap?

It absolutely makes No sense that Jesus would set the bar even higher than the original law and then expect that we could be saved by living out the beatitudes.

And then on top of that why did Jesus, God in the flesh, even come to the earth, He could have sent one of His prophets with the Beatitudes since we certainly do not need a Saviour since we now can fix our own heart.

You do realize that our righteousness is a "filthily rags to God Isaiah 64:6?" and the people in the old testament were justified by their faith and not the law. Have you ever read Romans?

I'm sorry UnderGrace.

I really must stop speaking to you.
I'm getting high blood pressure.
Sorry.

 

[dcontroversal]

My intention was to show the faultiness of your reasoning according to scripture.

It would seem you are not able to justify your line of thinking with scripture, so I guess I have proved my point that our outward behavior may or may not be an indication of our salvation in Jesus.

People can be very good at giving a surface appearance of doing good works.

Amen...such as the Pharisees........outwardly they appear holy, righteous and faithful.......their works did not quite make the cut......nor will the workers for and their works make the cut......

 

[gb9]

OK gb9.
ONE MORE TIME...

It's useless to quote verses that say we have to Believe in Jesus to be saved and that nothing further is required of us.

WHY?

Because of what the word BELEIVE means. We have so many Greek scholars here, it's Amazing they haven't been able to provide the meaning. Know why? It goes against the grain.

Of course, we'll read that we must BELIEVE to be saved. Believe in Jesus.

Believe means

trust the person
learn from the person
obey the person
agree with the person
do what the person teaches
use them as an example
follow them in all ways

You won't find this anywhere on Google. It's from theology. THIS IS WHAT BELIEVE MEANS IN THE GREEK.

You see, it's not that I don't like Greek or understand why we should look up words every now and then...
It's that those who want to distort the word of God by explaining words in Greek, usually end up making pretzels, if you know what I mean.

So, getting back to BELIEVE.

If I believe in Jesus, then I MUST DO EVERYTHING HE SAID TO DO.

I DO NOT have the right to think that I don't have to.

You see?
That one word makes all the difference.

I do hope that all reading along understand now what believe means.
It certainly IS an action word.

So, let's BELIEVE Jesus, and do what He instructed us to do.

so, do you reject strong's concordence's definition of pisteuo, or disagree with that greek word being used??

because it certainly seems like you are refusing to accept it.

 

[FranC]

Sadly, you are listening to a false teacher, a very false teacher. Then because they do not understand the Gospel the blame cheap grace which does not even exist, since Grace emanates from God so how can it be cheap?

It absolutely makes No sense that Jesus would set the bar even higher than the original law and then expect that we could be saved by living out the beatitudes.

And then on top of that why did Jesus, God in the flesh, even come to the earth, He could have sent one of His prophets with the Beatitudes since we certainly do not need a Saviour since we now can fix our own heart.

You do realize that our righteousness is a "filthily rags to God Isaiah 64:6?" and the people in the old testament were justified by their faith and not the law. Have you ever read Romans?

I'll just say this:

Jesus DID NOT set the bar higher?

Read chapter 5 of Mathew. You could start at vese 21 and then keep going.

You have a very weird idea about how Jesus didn't mean for us to follow what He said.

i wish you'd go to a good Church.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'll just say this:

Jesus DID NOT set the bar higher?

Read chapter 5 of Mathew. You could start at vese 21 and then keep going.

You have a very weird idea about how Jesus didn't mean for us to follow what He said.

i wish you'd go to a good Church.

Is that a church that teaches you save yourself........because the work of Christ is not sufficient....??

 

[UnderGrace]

Well all I can say is ....Good Luck with That!

Even if believe means all the things that you define it as....you have not yet stated the result of that belief from God's end of things according to the scripture?

OK gb9.
ONE MORE TIME...

It's useless to quote verses that say we have to Believe in Jesus to be saved and that nothing further is required of us.

WHY?

Because of what the word BELEIVE means. We have so many Greek scholars here, it's Amazing they haven't been able to provide the meaning. Know why? It goes against the grain.

Of course, we'll read that we must BELIEVE to be saved. Believe in Jesus.

Believe means

trust the person
learn from the person
obey the person
agree with the person
do what the person teaches
use them as an example
follow them in all ways

You won't find this anywhere on Google. It's from theology. THIS IS WHAT BELIEVE MEANS IN THE GREEK.

You see, it's not that I don't like Greek or understand why we should look up words every now and then...
It's that those who want to distort the word of God by explaining words in Greek, usually end up making pretzels, if you know what I mean.

So, getting back to BELIEVE.

If I believe in Jesus, then I MUST DO EVERYTHING HE SAID TO DO.

I DO NOT have the right to think that I don't have to.

You see?
That one word makes all the difference.

I do hope that all reading along understand now what believe means.
It certainly IS an action word.

So, let's BELIEVE Jesus, and do what He instructed us to do.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Newsflash: GraceNPeace isn't a sister.

ILL TAKE THIS AS JUST ANOTHER PALM OFF god blees you sister

 

[FranC]

You should study the word hypocrite.....you constantly mouth about the things people say and then make mouthy comments like this......

I'm a fast learner. (from you)

Doesn't feel nice, does it Dcon?

 

[UnderGrace]

Well I do not want to give you high blood pressure, but you need to see that what you have been listening to and following is a not biblical, it is actually against the good news of the New Convenant which is salvation by Grace (God) through faith (Us).

May the Lord Jesus Himself convict you of the True Saving Gospel, through His Holy Spirit who guides us into all Truth.

I'm sorry UnderGrace.

I really must stop speaking to you.
I'm getting high blood pressure.
Sorry.