Jesus IS King!!!

JoDel · Jun 24, 2017

Is that your final answer? By the way, for a second there you spoke as if you fell under the influence of the "drivelers". Blah Blah Blah

Angela53510 · Jun 25, 2017

John146 said:

The purpose of a translation is to make the Word of God understandable in English. Once again the convoluted wording of the KJV has led you astray! You really need to read a modern, understandable version and maybe you could let go of some of these heresies, because you do not understand what the archaic KJV is saying!

If you want to understand what this verse is saying, try the NET Bible! Now this really sums up the sovereignty of God, and that we do not yet comprehend that he is totally in control.

"You put all things under his control.”For when he put all things under his control, he left nothing outside of his control. At present we do not yet see all things under his control," Hebrews 2:8

Laish · Jun 25, 2017

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]

SovereignGrace said:

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Yes I noticed that too . It got me thinking . It all seems to stem from a manipulation of [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's attributes. Change the meaning or remove just one thing on the short list below and they are led to dozens of heresies.
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]self-existence [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God is [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]spirit [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]He does not have a material body and is transcendent. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God is trinity
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]sovereignty [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]holiness[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]omnipresence [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]omniscience [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]immutability[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's justice [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God is [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]truthfulness [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's mercifulness [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's love [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's grace

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Its like following a map . They start just a degree off course, from there on they keep moving further and further away from the mark . It goes to show you what happens when folks don't get the basics often nothing good follows.
Blessings
Bill [/FONT][/FONT]

JoDel · Jun 25, 2017

Angela53510 said:

The purpose of a translation is to make the Word of God understandable in English. Once again the convoluted wording of the KJV has led you astray! You really need to read a modern, understandable version and maybe you could let go of some of these heresies, because you do not understand what the archaic KJV is saying!

If you want to understand what this verse is saying, try the NET Bible! Now this really sums up the sovereignty of God, and that we do not yet comprehend that he is totally in control.

"You put all things under his control.”For when he put all things under his control, he left nothing outside of his control. At present we do not yet see all things under his control," Hebrews 2:8

AMEN! and AMEN!!! Hosanna in the HIGHEST! Hallelujah and PRAISE KING JESUS! PAST, FUTURE, AAAAANNNNND...PRESENT!

JoDel · Jun 25, 2017

Laish said:

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Yes I noticed that too . It got me thinking . It all seems to stem from a manipulation of [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's attributes. Change the meaning or remove just one thing on the short list below and they are led to dozens of heresies.
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]self-existence [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God is [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]spirit [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]He does not have a material body and is transcendent. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God is trinity
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]sovereignty [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]holiness[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]omnipresence [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]omniscience [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]immutability[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's justice [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God is [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Italic]truthfulness [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
God's mercifulness [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's love [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]God's grace

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Its like following a map . They start just a degree off course, from there on they keep moving further and further away from the mark . It goes to show you what happens when folks don't get the basics often nothing good follows.
Blessings
Bill [/FONT][/FONT][/QUOTEHARK! WHAT IS THIS I HEAR... MORE TRUTH?! SO VERY BEAUTIFUL! I LOVE IT! (oh...and the caps are not 'raising my voice in chat, of which I have been accused... ahem...) They are for emphasis out of the JOY OF MY SOUL! Thank you, Laish

JoDel · Jun 25, 2017

trofimus said:

"But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom."
Heb 1:8

"Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven."
Heb 8:1 (OK, not technically sitting on the throne, but the meaning is very similar)

"John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne"
Rev 1:4

"To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne."
Rev 3:21[/QUOTE TRUTH, yet again explained to the "ones" who won't hear... but is sweet, sweet music to this one's ear...

peacefulbeliever · Jun 25, 2017

ForthAngel said:

Hi peacefulbeliever. God's will being sovereign over evil does not make his will evil, nor does it mean he participates in that evil. There is a bit of a mystery to it. Someone can commit an evil act of their own will, but God can have a will to make good come of it. Same act, two wills, one fallen and evil, one perfect and good. The perfect and good will of God will prevail.

Also, God is terrifying in his own right. I saw this post on my Facebook today and it serves as a solemn and terrifying reminder of the God we serve:

A few days ago I wrote a brief reflection on my favourite chapter of the Old Testament – Isaiah 52:13-53:12. If that doesn’t make you want to leap for joy and praise the Lord, there is something seriously wrong with you. However, not every chapter in the Bible is intended to lighten our steps – some of them are meant to put weight in our souls. So it is with Deuteronomy 28.

Deuteronomy 28 is not my favourite chapter in the Bible. Not by a long shot. In it, Moses tells the people of Israel that they are not strong enough to live apart from the protection of the Lord. He tells them that if they forsake their covenant with the Lord, then they will be exposed to the power of their enemy and they will fall.

The Bible says that our enemy seeks only to steal, kill and destroy and this story reminds us that he will use every weapon in his arsenal and every minion in his power to erase and deface the image of God in us. If the Lord is not our fortress, then we shall utterly despair! This chapter describes that prophesied desolation in almost unreadable detail.

“They shall besiege you in all your towns, until your high and fortified walls, in which you trusted, come down throughout all your land. And they shall besiege you in all your towns throughout all your land, which the Lord your God has given you. 53 And you shall eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemies shall distress you. 54 The man who is the most tender and refined among you will begrudge food to his brother, to the wife he embraces, and to the last of the children whom he has left, 55 so that he will not give to any of them any of the flesh of his children whom he is eating, because he has nothing else left, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in all your towns. 56 The most tender and refined woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because she is so delicate and tender, will begrudge to the husband she embraces, to her son and to her daughter, 57 her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears, because lacking everything she will eat them secretly, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in your towns.” (Deuteronomy 28:52–57 ESV)

Siege warfare is brutal and dehumanizing. The Jews endured it twice, first during the Babylonian assault in 589-586 BC and then again under the Romans in AD 69-70. Prophecy became history in the writings of Flavius Josephus. He records the story of a woman named Mary, driven mad by her incessant hunger during the Roman siege:

“Famine gnawed at her vitals, and the fire of rage was ever fiercer than famine. So, driven by fury and want, she committed a crime against nature. Seizing her child, an infant at the breast, she cried, “My poor baby, why should I keep you alive in this world of war and famine? Even if we live till the Romans come, they will make slaves of us; and anyway, hunger will get us before slavery does; and the rebels are crueler than both. Come, be food for me, and an avenging fury to the rebels, and a tale of cold horror to the world to complete the monstrous agony of the Jews.” With these words she killed her son, roasted the body, swallowed half of it, and stored the rest in a safe place.”1

It is very hard to read a prophecy like the one we read this morning in Deuteronomy 28; it is ever harder when we know that it actually happened – twice in the history of the Jewish people.

This is one of those chapters from which we would rather look away.

We would rather imagine a God who was only mercy.

We would rather imagine a God who was slightly less antagonistic towards human rebellion and sin.

However, the Bible does not give us such a God.

The Bible describes a God who is three times holy. He is HOLY. HOLY. HOLY. He is who He is, and He is not subject to our judgment or approval. He is glorified in the display of His mercy and He is glorified in the display of His judgments.

That is what the Bible says.

That is what Deuteronomy 28 says and nowhere is that said more forcefully or more frankly than in Deuteronomy 28 verse 63.

And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. (Deuteronomy 28:63 ESV)

The Most Difficult Verse in the Bible | TGC

I have no problem with Deut. 28 . . . IF you will obey - blessings; IF you will not obey - cursings, i.e. I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing . . . choose life; i.e. whosoever believes in the only begotten Son of God - cursings and death the result of man's disobedience

Now IF you believe (choose life), you have God's hedge of protection around you; IF you do not believe (choose death) God's hedge is not around you and the devil has free course in your life to destroy you - The thief comes not but for to steal, kill, and destroy. - destruction the result of man's disobedience

IF Satan has to gets God's "permission" (consent/approval) for the things that he does - then Satan is doing God's will for God consented/approved for him to do what he does, steal, kill and destroy. Satan was thrown out of heaven because of his pride . . . How can Satan be doing God's will if he was a murderer and liar from the beginning? Satan is in total rebellion to God . . . They are enemies . . . not coworkers.

FA, thank you for your civility in responding to me and not being condescending in your response. I know it is probably frustrating dealing with me!!

JoDel · Jun 25, 2017

miknik5 said:

I live that Job pled and prophecied man's dilemma for us!!! (Job 9)
imagine a man trying to bypass THE SON thinking that somehow, apart from GOD's PROVISION, a man can come into the presence of THE FATHER!

Job kept his mouth shut and would not profess himself before GOD. He understood

So also were we supposed to do so

however, it appears that some don't understand the magnitude of THE GIFT OF GOD[/QUOTE AMEN! Lovin' this TRUTH!!! Right on!!!

JoDel · Jun 25, 2017

notmyown said:

TRUTH!!! I Love it! (what's this I hear... crickets chirping from the oppressors side?). Ie; the spewers of heresy denying Jesus Christ as King...NOW!

peacefulbeliever · Jun 25, 2017

Angela53510 said:

I do believe they both say the same thing . . . Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. . . ."You put all things under his control.”For when he put all things under his control, he left nothing outside of his control. At present we do not yet see all things under his control," Hebrews 2:8At present = But now

we do not yet see = we see not yet

all things under his control = all things put under him

ForthAngel · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

What has happened in Deuteronomy 28 is God's own doing. Not simply because he removed his protection, but the horrors that take place are God's judgment. Not saying you, but there are some here who will outright reject this truth. He has a track record of using evil nations and evil people and evil creatures to accomplish his will, especially in judgment. This is how we know he is sovereign.

20 “The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me.

21 The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish.

24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder. From heaven dust shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them. And you shall be a horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.

27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, and with tumors and scabs and itch, of which you cannot be healed.

28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of mind

35 The Lord will strike you on the knees and on the legs with grievous boils of which you cannot be healed, from the sole of your foot to the crown of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone.

37 And you shall become a horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away.

48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, swooping down like the eagle, a nation whose language you do not understand

As far as Satan getting permission, Satan may not have to ask permission every time he afflicts someone, but he by no means is left unchecked to roam without interference/allowance from God. He can still only do what God allows (or permits) him to do. God could even use the devil as a judgment on those who reject him. God does give Satan permission in the book of Job though. He sets limits and tells him what he can and cannot do.

Here is an example of God using the evil will of a fallen creature to accomplish His good will and purpose.

Isaiah 10
5 Woe to Assyria, the rod of my anger;
the staff in their hands is my fury!
6 Against a godless nation I send him,
and against the people of my wrath I command him,
to take spoil and seize plunder,
and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
7 But he does not so intend,
and his heart does not so think;
but it is in his heart to destroy,
and to cut off nations not a few;

The evil Assyrian king was wielded in God's hands like a tool and later on God judges the king and his people for this act that God was in control of. How could that even be? Because in verse 7, it was already the will of the Assyrian to destroy and conquer, so God was still perfectly just in enacting judgment through him and his army. I know it's hard to grasp the fact that God can use the will of a fallen evil creature to accomplish an act that both the fallen creature and God both want to happen and God's will remain good, but the bible teaches this. This is what we mean by God is sovereign over evil but still does not commit evil.

The same is true when looking at the crucifixion. The fallen creatures all gathered together to crucify Jesus. This was their will to do so. However, God had already predestined the event to happen at that exact time. The evil murderous wills of fallen man, the Romans, Pilate, and the Jews, but the perfect and holy will of God had already planned this out beforehand and his will was supreme. The very same event, two conflicting wills.

I dunno if this is the right term, but there is obviously some kind of supernatural compatibility between the will of the fallen creature and the will of God. His will always wins and is good, even if the creature's will is fallen and evil.

(I think this touched on everything you said in your post, I hope)

ForthAngel · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

I think we both might get a little frustrated with one another at times

I do like discussing with you though.

Ariel82 · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

I believe God sets limits and keeps Satan from doing certain things, not that God approves of Satan's actions as much as He protects His children from going through more than they can take.

For the most part God allows this world and it's evil to affect all people. Ocassionally God reaches out miraculously to save.

For example most folks don't realize how Satan wanted to destroy Peter. If Jesus hadn't interfered many things could have happen, the guards could have killed Peter after recognizing him...he did after all cut off a guy's ear.

I believe Satan seeks to harm us but God prevents him by placing angels to protect us. However, angels can be corrupted and persuaded to betray us and God, just as cops can become dirty and bought. There is a reason Satan appears as an angel of light.

By the way they aren't co-workers. God is King and Satan was a covert terrorist....now he is an openly declared rebellion leader seeking to sway souls away from God to his kingdom of darkness.

Ariel82 · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

If you mean all the kingdoms of darkness, then I would agree. However Jesus controls His kingdom, His church, the animal kingdom, plants, weather and most of the world

Satan and Evil has corrupted and tainted many things and their influence is present. However God is still in control and able to defeat any evil of this world.

Ariel82 · Jun 25, 2017

JoDel said:

I am baffled by many things on this thread/topic. 1) The evil in this world is the evidence of God allowing man to witness the repercussions of rejecting Him. The curse of this world was not brought upon us by Satan, but by mans arrogant decision to believe the lie satan told, in as far as becoming "like" God, if the transgression against Him was carried out. Adam could have told satan to go to hell where he belonged, but instead, arrogantly chose to believe and INVEST in that lie.

2) It is obvious that evil comes from satan, but he still doesn't rule over us because Jesus and the finished work of the cross ransomed our pathetic lives from that evil and brought us into right standing with God once and for all through the divine genius of Jesus becoming every filthy, rotten, wicked, evil, contemptuous sin man could perform out of his own imagination and arrogance.

3) Long before Adam, God, knowing the betrayal of mans heart toward His own, put a Master Plan into place that would allow reconciliation between God and fallen man... Christ Jesus was the plan and He saw it through to the end. We have been ransomed from satan AND the shackles of sin by which we were once bound and condemned.

4) Jesus sits at the right hand of God, BECAUSE...that's what one does when their perfect work is finished and there is nothing left to do.

5) The right hand in scripture ALWAYS signifies power, favor, strength, blessing, inheritance...all of which we know Jesus has been given by His Father God and already owned as being God in the flesh anyway.

6) He rules and reigns from His Holy place beside the Father, interceding for all of us who are still imperfect, though forgiven of our sins because of the ultimate Blood sacrifice of Christ. Our very names...ALL of them, not one forgotten, are crimson in color by the priceless Holy "life-force" of Jesus. We speak of the whiteness (or purity) restored to us once again by the "washing of His blood" and that we are made the righteousness of God IN CHRIST JESUS.

7) Yet, some want to argue over what power satan has in this world? Some want to question the sovereignty of the Almighty God in whose character, holiness, power, magnificence, glory, etc is MAGNIFIED AND MANIFESTED in Jesus Christ, our Lord... our High Priest, Our King, our God.

8) What does it matter, the subject of satan having "limited power" at this time in the world? We know... he knows... the end of the "story". Why give him the time of day about his pitifully, weak influence he has in this world? Yes, his dark ways are indeed influential in the life of mankind, but ultimately, it is MAN'S decision to fall for the lies...yet again, or refuse them for what they are and adhere strongly to Jesus for power against it.

9) He bled and died on the cross, in our place... to give us His, so that we might have the God given authority over "rulers of darkness and principalities in high places"... ie; satan.

10) The irrefutable Power of God lives within us that we might use wisdom in remembering this fact.~ Jesus Is King. To that, there is no legitimate doubt. The Word of God is clear about that fact. Why can't everyone see it? Even that answer was "divinely documented" for us ... for such a time as this.

Satan's role and how it plays out in this world, was also choreographed by God in great detail with simple instruction to/for us on fighting against it. We are NOT meant to do it alone... (I defer to Adam's unsuccessful and disastrous attempt). I am reminded of the scripture which says, "So, submit yourselves to the One true God and fight against the devil and his schemes. If you do, he will run away in failure". So, rather than building a "false sense" of satans power to argue against, shouldn't we be focusing on the REAL power that IS God and in whose shadow, satan shrinks and runs?

I dunno, but I get a very deep impression that Satan enjoys...wallows luxuriously even, in watching the children of God giving but the slightest mention to his dilapidated "domain of reign". Yes, we are warned to STAND STRONG against his "wiles and schemes"... could entertaining this constant mention of his "power" on earth be one of those schemes?

This thread IS about Jesus Christ being King and exalting His Eternal position as such. Let us stay the course~~~

This is an awesome post!

SovereignGrace · Jun 25, 2017

Laish said:

You could hear Brother Bill's post? What's next? You see noises?

SovereignGrace · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

It says 'we' do not see all things put under Him. It's not that all things are not yet put under Him, but 'we' do not see it. I think it means that we see God's ppl are being killed by wicked ppl, like ISIS beheading fellow Christians, and some thinking that God isn't in control, because if He was, then why are they being murdered for serving Him? Many have died through the centuries for Him. And yet, He's always in control.

notmyown · Jun 25, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

i'm going to paraphrase (murder? haha) an RC Sproul quote. (my off brand search engine can't locate it.

)

If there's one maverick molecule in the universe not under God's sovereign control, we have no guarantee of any of His promises.

think about it, folks.

dcontroversal · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

He didn't touch one hair on Job's body . . . that was one of God's provisions

Are you asking me does God possess man and make man do what he says? No
Are you asking me if God allows and purports evil in people's lives so that he then can turn around and do good? No

Are you asking me if Satan has control over all the kingdoms in the world? Yes
Are you asking me if the whole world lies in the control of the evil one? Yes

Are you asking me if God has given us everything we need to stand, fight, be victorious, against the wickedness and the darkness in the world? Yes
Are you asking me if greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world? Yes

Really....the provision was you can touch all he has but you cannot take his life...WHERE did the BOILS come from?

preacher4truth · Jun 25, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

Which means God is in control and satan can do nothing without permission.

Jesus IS King!!!

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