Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey EG,

Here's your post about me going to hell. Post no. 14174


if it is necessary we are all doomed, because no one can keep it according to Gods standard.

james said if you break the lease, your guilty of all, are you perfect? If no (and you have said no many times) Then you failed to live up to Gods standard, so how can it save you, maintain your salvation or cause you to keep it if you can. Not keep it as required?

are you going to answer, or sit there and mock?

Your hate for hypergrace and Calvinism is so deep your willing to possibly go to hell because of it. That is sad!

You DO MENTION HELL a lot, BTW. I never think of it.
BTW, I don't sit here and mock.
You have really bad opinions of me.

I'm here to discuss, not to mock.
Maybe YOU are here to mock and think Others do the same?

your starting to act like peter,

i sad willing to possibly, I did not say you were going,

you yell at at people being dishonest, yet here you are,

and again, when are you ever going to comment on the rest of what. Say, you always focus on a few words, and ignore the rest,


Hell is is a real place, the Bible mentions it, if we do not come t faith in the one true gospel, it will be a place we spend eternity. So I think we should discuss it right?

 

[graceNpeace]

it seems that there is no fear of God in some people, they think that they are sinless. me, I do fear God, and His righteous judgement, so I dare not stand on my own goodness and righteousness , I know it is far short of His perfect and holy standards.

I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus,

AMEN!!!!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it seems that there is no fear of God in some people, they think that they are sinless. me, I do fear God, and His righteous judgement, so I dare not stand on my own goodness and righteousness , I know it is far short of His perfect and holy standards.

I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus,

Amen, there is another one, they tell us to fear god and stop sin, yet they do not fear God or his wrath to those who will stand in judgment,

as moses said, whoever does not confirm and obey ever letter is under a curse, and as Paul and Jesus claim, that curse is still in effect, the law has not been done away with, one and your done is what God says, and James said it did not matter how small a sin you think you commit, how sorry you are, how much you think it was a mistake, it makes you guilty of the whole law,

guilty = death
cross = life

they chose works and replace the cross with those works

 

[FranC]

The Holy spirit is who will testify that we are His Kids now and upon judement day.

God will help us mature and walk with Him and we may have good works but they are not ours but God's that He created in our hearts and lives to bless others and glorify Him,

Our good works do not "prove" who we are.,, they are not done for us or our salvation but for others and their blessings so that they may be drawn towards God and glorify Him.

We don't need any "evidence" to "prove" to God we are His.He recognizes His children whether we babes or mature in Him.

Ariel,

Our good works DO PROVE who we are in Christ.

Ephesians 2:10
We are created for good works. Are we doing these good works? If not, then we are disobeying God.
John 3:36 Those who do not obey God will see His wrath. We should not fool around with God's word. He DEMANDS that we follow His teachings.

Titus 1:16, warns us about false Teachers, but it also speaks as to deeds... “They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed

Titus 2:11-12: God’s grace instructs us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires. Then he adds that Christ “gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."
Titus 2:14

Good deeds, or works, are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and this should be stated with no reservation or page-long explanations.

 

[FranC]

Okay....so untangle and clearly state what it is you believe to be truth about how people are saved?

Is it by faith in Jesus or do you have to add to it before God will accept you as His child?

You seem to be stuck at the "being saved" part.

Could we move ahead??

 

[gb9]

You seem to be stuck at the "being saved" part.

Could we move ahead??

can you move to the truth that good works do not save nor prove salvation, but are a RESULT of being saved. Titus 3, whole chapter.

 

[FranC]

No....not hardly pal...that is not what James is saying......and the same can be said of you.....the bible is clear...salvation is by faith...not works....works are the result of....

Saved unto not saved by....try again....works embellished faith has no power....

What EXACTLY is James saying???

You say that's not what he's saying, but then you never say what he IS saying.

Try it in English or Greek.

Either will be accepted.

 

[FranC]

The part I don't get is why you think only you understand what James is saying and why you attack the church and its teachings?

I can find a handful of quotes from others saying that works are a fruit of folks who have a saving faith. Which is what it seems you are saying...that a saving faith will produce works as God's kids will be lead by the Holy spirit to do the good works God created us to do. That is what you are saying isn't it?

The question would be what good works did the thief on the cross do? What good works are we called to do? Is it different for each person? Will babes be punished if they die before obvious fruits are seen by others?

Finally some serious questions...

I'll let PHart answer them.

I only want to say that for someone who claims to KNOW JESUS, these questions seem pretty silly to me.

'tis all...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ariel,

Our good works DO PROVE who we are in Christ.

Ephesians 2:10
We are created for good works. Are we doing these good works? If not, then we are disobeying God.
John 3:36 Those who do not obey God will see His wrath. We should not fool around with God's word. He DEMANDS that we follow His teachings.

Titus 1:16, warns us about false Teachers, but it also speaks as to deeds... “They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed

Titus 2:11-12: God’s grace instructs us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires. Then he adds that Christ “gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."
Titus 2:14

Good deeds, or works, are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and this should be stated with no reservation or page-long explanations.

Prove to who? Does God need proof?

A non believer can appear to do good works, they can even act like a Christian, so do works prove they are saved?

the Bible says a person of faith will do good works, not that they might, why do you question that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You seem to be stuck at the "being saved" part. Could we move ahead??

if we do not have the "being saved part right" there is no moving ahead, if we get this part right, I think you will see we all agree on what's after,,

 

[FranC]

Another worker for....cake taker who presumes to know my background while sweeping Paul under the table for the go to book out of context to require works for salvation.......another deceiver....

Three derogatory terms in two sentences.
you're showing improvement.
You used to be able to do this in one sentence.

Keep up the good work!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What EXACTLY is James saying???

You say that's not what he's saying, but then you never say what he IS saying.

Try it in English or Greek.

Either will be accepted.

he is saying people who who walk in our churches, who are hearers of the word but not doers, who have done no work which would even lead someone to think they are saved, who claim to have faith, but have zero zip nada works, are you really saved (can your claimed faith save you)

well of course not, faith which is not followed by works is dead, a dead faith will never save anyone.

What he is not saying

works will save you, lack of work will cause loss of salvation

 

[PeterJens]

case in point , this poster always posts about God delivering us from sin, that there is no condemnation to us in Christ,

yet then when he contradicts it by saying we must change ourself, that we must gain victory, that god evidently can not change us or give us victory, we must do it ourself,

Does God rescue us or not? Ask this poster, and many like him, he will declaired yes, then scream you must rescue yourself by doing all these things,

Can you read or hear Jesus?

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Jesus is calling us to choose to put his words into practice.
This is obedience, listening and then acting.

Somehow people have been brain washed into action is selfish, obedience is evil,
Jesus has to do it without us knowing or acting.

This is total cognitive dissonance.

We have been changed in our hearts through repentance, confession and faith in Christ.
We now need to walk in this victory.

It is like saying you know how to ride a bicycle, you have practiced it, but now Jesus will
ride it for you and you do nothing. The whole point of the preparation is to enable you to
put it into reality.

The disdain and emnity here is staggering. But then a sinner will always hate having their
sin pointed out to them and the light of Gods word showing they fall short and are not
walking in the Spirit by their own confession and conscience.

 

[FranC]

So if I believe on John then am I still saved since you say Jesus said believe on him who He has sent?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:29

So if Jesus was God then he must not have been talking about himself since it is written in John 5:31
"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

So you saying we are suppose to believe on Paul?

John 1:6,[/SIZE

Zmouth,

Am I understanding your post??????????????

Are you asking Dcon to explain salvation to you?????????????????

How about you read the bible and get to know Jesus and ask HIM?????????????

Does Dcon have, like, a little cult following here????????????

I'm shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


][/QUOTE]

 

[PeterJens]

John 3:36 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Another way of expressing this, he who walks in rebellion and sin will not see life, will
experience the second death, and no matter the protestations of faith in Christ,
their life will testify to the truth or otherwise of this.

 

[FranC]

if the bot fits.....Learn yourself Fran...faith plus work for salvation equals LOST.....regardless of your inability to acknowledge truth....and your a hypocrite...you judged everyone who believes different than you, make snide remarks about grace and belief and then turn around and say stuff like this...

Now for the record....I judge one's dogma....and false gospels will not lead to heaven....so......quit lying and saying I condemn to hell because what I condemn is false gospels...not people....

Hey cutie,

When you tell me I'M GOING TO HELL, that is not judging my dogma.
That is YOU judging the condition of my SOUL. Something only God can do.

How little is that box you've got God in?
You think He'll just stay in there to make YOU happy?
I doubt it.

Just above in your VERY FIRST SENTENCE, you tell me I'm lost.
How do you know? Are you God??? Seems like you think you are.
Such a cutie too. What a shame you can't be nice.

That's 5 insults up there. I counted. In 5 sentences. I think I have to take back what I said before.
You are NOT improving.

But I still have hope for you.
One day you'll act like the saved man that you are.

 

[Zmouth]

it seems that there is no fear of God in some people, they think that they are sinless. me, I do fear God, and His righteous judgement, so I dare not stand on my own goodness and righteousness , I know it is far short of His perfect and holy standards.

I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus,

Talk about drawing near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Actually perfect love casts out fear, but since you can't be perfect, then why seek what he meant in Matthew 5:48:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:17-18

1 John 3:4-9
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:9

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you read or hear Jesus?

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Jesus is calling us to choose to put his words into practice.
This is obedience, listening and then acting.

Somehow people have been brain washed into action is selfish, obedience is evil,
Jesus has to do it without us knowing or acting.

This is total cognitive dissonance.

We have been changed in our hearts through repentance, confession and faith in Christ.
We now need to walk in this victory.

It is like saying you know how to ride a bicycle, you have practiced it, but now Jesus will
ride it for you and you do nothing. The whole point of the preparation is to enable you to
put it into reality.

The disdain and emnity here is staggering. But then a sinner will always hate having their
sin pointed out to them and the light of Gods word showing they fall short and are not
walking in the Spirit by their own confession and conscience.

Yes peter I hear loud and clear,

i put gods gods words into practice, why? Because I have true faith in God, not because I trust myself and am trying to get saved or maintain my salvation,

the rock is jesus i build build my house on the rock, not on the law, not on myself (works) not on my church, or what over men tell me, but on Christ.

obedince is by faith Peter, not by self effort, if we trust god, we will do what he said, if we do not have faith we will not, plain and simple.

Again, without faith it is impossible to please him, period,

you did did not change your heart Peter, you can't change your heart, stop takin credit and give it to God, all you can do is say yes Lord.

you can repent and start to trust God, because HE HAS TO CHANGE YOUR HEART. As scripture says, He God) will write his law on your heart, not you, but you can not change your heart.

Your example is bad Peter. You can not learn how to ride a bike, God has to teach you, br frst you have to have faith to get on, fall off, then get on again, and allow God to guide you, when you learn one part, two on to next party and keep going until you master it through God,

just don't forget the other parts, you will be running the race to learn how to master the bike until you die,

the lack of faith in Christ is staggering, but then the religious will always be pointing out how righteous they are, in spite of the fact the light of Gods word tells them how they fall short, and Are in need to repent, because they are trusting self and reject Christ,

So peter, when are you going to hear God?

 

[PeterJens]

Hey cutie,

When you tell me I'M GOING TO HELL, that is not judging my dogma.
That is YOU judging the condition of my SOUL. Something only God can do.

How little is that box you've got God in?
You think He'll just stay in there to make YOU happy?
I doubt it.

Just above in your VERY FIRST SENTENCE, you tell me I'm lost.
How do you know? Are you God??? Seems like you think you are.
Such a cutie too. What a shame you can't be nice.

That's 5 insults up there. I counted. In 5 sentences. I think I have to take back what I said before.
You are NOT improving.

But I still have hope for you.
One day you'll act like the saved man that you are.

Do we pick grapes from a thorn bush, or figs from thistles?
The fruit shows the tree from which it comes.

 

[FranC]

I agree, yet the Gospel of John was not written by John the baptist.

Zmouth,

I'm sorry for getting into this.
It seems there's some confusion.

The New Testament speaks of two John's.

One is John the Baptist, as you know he was the cousin of Jesus. They were about 6 months apart in age, John the Baptist being the older.

John the Baptist is the one who came to prepare the way of the Lord. Did you know that in those days when a King or Governor or some very important person had to go to a town or city for whatever reason, men were sent before him to prepare the way. They actually cleared the road of rocks or bushes or any other obstacle so that the trip would be easier for the King making the trip.

John the Baptist did the same thing for Jesus. He prepared the way. He told people about sin. He told them how they had to repent, be sorry for their sins, turn in the opposite direction and walk toward God. This got everyone ready for the gospel that Jesus was going to preach.


The other John is John the Apostle. He was one of the 12 Apostles , he was the youngest. He loved Jesus a lot and Jesus loved him a lot. He was one of the top Apostles. Peter and James were at the top too. Jesus loved all of them, but these were Always with Him.

John the Apostel wrote the gospel of John. He wrote the 3 letters of John and he wrote the book of Revelation.

If you check out the gospel of John... John 1:6-8 is speaking about John the Baptist.

THEN in verses 9 to 13 is switches and is speaking about Jesus.


Blessings