Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

easy grace gospel

Really .......You think what Jesus did was easy??

Hey, I hope you feel comfortable telling Him that when you meet Him face to face.

Think about the contradiction in your terminology, especially in light of the cross!

there are those that USE scripture, and there are those who ARE scripture..Know the difference between the two..

The easy grace gospel is from the bottomless pit of man’s imagination (the image of the beast), Satan’s prison…He has been loosed upon them in the little season of this generation of flesh pleasers.

 

[dcontroversal]

Really .......You think what Jesus did was easy??

Hey, I hope you feel comfortable telling Him that when you meet Him face to face.

Think about the contradiction in your terminology, especially in light of the cross!

His view is skewed....a working for, sinless perfectionist dogma that tramples under foot the grace, mercy and work of Christ......see the post under this one for case in point.....

 

[willybob]

those that USE scripture are the posers, antichrist, and those that ARE scripture are the worthy, HIS obedient servants, of the which is our reasonable sacrifice and service said Paul in Romans, 21-1 which aligns with what Solomon said in Eccl. 12-13....

many will wrestle with the text like the apostle Peter said they would, trying to twist it in form by making provisions for fleshly and worldly endeavors . But Paul said make no provision for the flesh.

 

[dcontroversal]

those that USE scripture are the posers, antichrist, and those that ARE scripture are the worthy, HIS obedient servants, of the which is our reasonable sacrifice and service said Paul in Romans, 21-1 which aligns with what Solomon said in Eccl. 12-13....

many will wrestle with the text like the apostle Peter said they would, trying to twist it in form by making provisions for fleshly and worldly endeavors . But Paul said make no provision for the flesh.

I have to tell you the above has got to be one of the biggest cake taking statements that I have seen on CC.....DUDE.....you really should take time off from CC...and spend a few years in honest study......serious!

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[stonesoffire]

I think you forgot the words "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ" and make no provision for the flesh. This to willybob.

Fran

ISV
Tit 3:3　 After all, we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, and misled. We were slaves to many kinds of lusts and pleasures, spending our days in malice and jealousy. We were despised, and we hated one another.　

(the following is in poetic form) The ISV is the most accurate.

Tit 3:4　 In grace our Savior God appeared, to make his love for mankind clear.
　
Tit 3:5　 'Twas not for deeds that we had done, but by his steadfast love alone, he saved us through a second birth, renewed us by the Spirit's work,
　
Tit 3:6　 and poured him out upon us, too, through Jesus the Messiah our Savior true.　


Tit 3:7　 And so, made heirs by his own grace, eternal life we now embrace. (finished)
　
Tit 3:8　 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have put their faith in God may devote themselves to good actions. These things are good and helpful to other people.
　
Tit 3:9　 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless.　


Tit 3:10　 Have nothing to do with a divisive person after you have warned him once or twice.
　
Tit 3:11　 For you know that a person like this is corrupt and keeps on sinning, being self-condemned.
　

 

[UnderGrace]

I keeping asking the same question sigh

God was precise in the Law, it seems out of character for Him not to give us a measuring stick so we have an idea if we are working hard enough after the cross and resurrection.

Maybe I am missing something?

Oh wait .... I know.... I have to be and act exactly like Jesus (does anyone have a spare cross I could carry?).

I better not stop believing (didn't Journey write a song about that?) or falter even for a second or longer.

I better be piling on those good works to ensure my place in heaven cause it would seem that Jesus did not complete the job so I better do my part. Now why would He leave a job half done, it just does not seem like Him?

Well now, Paul must have been confused when he said that we would not be able to boast.

Oops was this offensive, well, it can never ever be as offensive as "cheap grace"

Thanks Grace7, you see it too.. there is a gapping hole in this theology of works like the mouth of an open grave.

I see no one has told us exactly how many good works we need to have in order to be saved and to remain saved.

If our eternal destination is determined on "good works" - then knowing exactly what every one of them is and how many we need to do and for how long - would be a "HANDY DANDY PIECE" of information to have.

Because according to some people's religion our loving Father who loves His children dearly will throw us in the lake of fire if we don't "do good works" and do enough of them.

We need to have every one of them named and exactly how much we need to do them in order to stop our Father from throwing us into hell.

( Notice that Christ is not involved in this at all - it is all us - oh the smart ones will give "lip-service" to the term grace and faith but Christ is not central - we are. We are our own Savior by our good works. It's an anti-Christ belief system. )

 

[Conversationand]

I see both arguments like this: In the near future cars are self-driving to such a point that some even don't have windows. In your self-driving car, you get a call: "Hey, where you headed?" "Well, I set the GPS for my Father's house." "Great, when are you going to get there?" "I don't know." "Why don't you know?" "My GPS doesn't measure speed or distance." "Then how do you know that you're moving at all?" "I don't need to know that information to get there, I've got a GPS." "But what if there's a bridge out or you have to pee or something?" "You're undermining the graceful convenience of the GPS by worrying about all of these details. Besides, if I get off track is it really going to affect anything? I still have a GPS"

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

In keeping with the op,


Ephesians 2:1-10
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[SUP]a[/SUP] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.[SUP]b[/SUP] 4But[SUP]c[/SUP] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Conversationand]

I keeping asking the same question sigh

God was precise in the Law, it seems out of character for Him not to give us a measuring stick so we have an idea if we are working hard enough after the cross and resurrection.

Maybe I am missing something?

Oh wait .... I know.... I have to be and act exactly like Jesus (does anyone have a spare cross I could carry?).
(1 Peter 1 15-16) [FONT=&quot]15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 for it is written: “Be [/FONT][FONT=&quot]holy,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] because I am holy.” (Matthew 16: 24) [/FONT]24 [FONT=&quot]Then Jesus told his disciples, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. (Mind you I don't believe anyone expects Christians to have perfection in the flesh, but we should be striving and "Earnestly contending for the faith to which God has called us.")
[/FONT]
I better not stop believing (didn't Journey write a song about that?) or falter even for a second or longer.
(1 Peter 3-5) [FONT=&quot]3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great [/FONT][FONT=&quot]mercy[/FONT][FONT=&quot] he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (If you stop believing, is God going to continue to shield you despite your lack of faith?)[/FONT]

I better be piling on those good works to ensure my place in heaven cause it would seem that Jesus did not complete the job so I better do my part. Now why would He leave a job half done, it just does not seem like Him?

Just because the Grace of Christ is unfailing and complete doesn't mean we suddenly don't have control over the states of our hearts.

Well now, Paul must have been confused when he said that we would not be able to boast.

Even Paul said that he was saved by Grace through faith. When that faith no longer exists to go through where does your salvation come from?

Oops was this offensive, well, it can never ever be as offensive as "cheap grace"

Thanks Grace7, you see it too.. there is a gapping hole in this theology of works like the mouth of an open grave.

See the notations in the quote above.

 

[willybob]

Really .......You think what Jesus did was easy??

Hey, I hope you feel comfortable telling Him that when you meet Him face to face.

Think about the contradiction in your terminology, especially in light of the cross!

many perceive they will present their filthy rags to God on judgement day. Do you?

 

[willybob]

I have to tell you the above has got to be one of the biggest cake taking statements that I have seen on CC.....DUDE.....you really should take time off from CC...and spend a few years in honest study......serious!

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

This message wasn't for you, but rather to warn others of you, and your false gospel..

 

[FranC]

I used the word on purpose to make a point...guess it went above your head....

con·flate
kənˈflāt/
verb
verb: conflate; 3rd person present: conflates; past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated; gerund or present participle: conflating

• combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
  "the urban crisis conflates a number of different economic and social issues"
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]mix, blend, fuse, unite, integrate "the plot gets weighed down when the writers conflate too many issues into one episode"
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  Originally Posted by dcontroversal
  
  I do love my brothers and sisters in Christ.....you seem to conflate love for a brother with my hatred of the false working for dogma that you and a few others push.....I have no problem with you per se, just what you espouse and teach which waters down and tramples under foot the blood and sacrifice of Jesus...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

It went above my head?

You're such a cutie.
You meant CONFUSE and you know it.

Conflate just sounds better to you....

 

[Katy-follower]

Katy-follower

Maybe you should call yourself a Dcon-follower.

He seems to have his little Group here.

Dcon -followers.
yeah.

Because you know I don't like labels, Fran... except follower of Jesus

There will be (and should be) unity among born again believers who have truth... they're spiritual family, they speak the same language, especially concerning salvation. This is the group.

Of course, there will always be division between the truth and the lie. Christ wanted it this way (Luke 12:51-53). Those of the world and those who no longer are. Like chalk and cheese, no unity.

No Ariel or Dcon group.... you're either a child of God or a child of the devil. Those who don't belong to God are lost in the world, and the devil is their father (1 John 3:10, Acts 13:10).

Only two groups... Abel & Cain, wheat & tares, sheep & goats, narrow & broad way.

 

[FranC]

I agree,, would love to see a thread about imputed righteousness.

Maybe I'll be brave and start one?

 

[FranC]

What I said was fine.....LIKE NORMAL..........!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Sure....I remember him calling me a psychopath and a few other names...so...either you have a poor memory, don't read or just sweep the truth under the table like normal....

Both are grammatically correct.....!

Could you please prove it.

Really.

 

[FranC]

to be saved. No, Thats legalism

For christian growth, Yes, Otherwise you will remain stagnant, or a babe in christ (yet you will still do some work)

Again, Works will happen, There is not a question

the only person questioning a person of God having works is you..

So thanks again for slandering me with a 1/2 truthIf your going to say I do not believe works are required, at least be honest, and add to it, in order to keep saved.. Then you will not be in error. otherwise, You just decieving people into thinking I believe something which is not true.

Hi EG

You said works are NOT necessary.
I made a point of it.
Now you tell me I slandered you.

Here's what you said. I TRY to be careful when quoting persons.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post


No, it is not a requirement, The law demands requirments, Grace demands faith.

People who have true faith WILL have works. You evidently believe one can have faith and not have works.. Which tells me you do not understand what true faith is.

so instead of trying to learn what it means, You have it in your mind your going to earn salvation by your works, . Good luck..

 

[FranC]

I don't think God is in a tiny box. I've found this to be not true. That's why I say that it's a living fellowship with Him and not following rules that are written. The works that the Lord has for me may not be the same as those for you. It's all about the individual plan that He has for us all. So we are led.

What I said is if Peter doesn't have the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ, then he hasn't been transferred from the kingdom of darkness, to the Kingdom of Light.

Its the only way to Father...through the door. So what is he trusting in?

Our righteousness must be greater than the scribes and Pharisees...and that is only His.

Am just taking a short break. Much to do today...lol work of course but of mine, not His. Unless I get interrupted.

Later..

Oh, and when I like a post, there is an idea that I see that I am in agreement with. Personal words I just gloss over.

It helps to not get offended.

I only like to offend Dcon.
That's only because I love him to Death.

But I digress. Let's look at the conversation we're talking about..
Only because I think it's important and it's about having _God in a box. A really tiny box...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On page 732, you and EG were having a conversation about Peter.

In Post no. 14633, EG made this statement: "Peter has said that he rejects imputed righteousness".

In post no. 14634, YOU replied, exact words now... "If so, then he has no part in the Kingdom. Still in the Kindgdom of darkness. No good. "


To which I made the statement that you have God in a very little box.
IF PETER REJECTS IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS , it DOES NOT mean that he is in the Kingdom of darkness.

It only means that he rejects a doctrine. HE IS NOT REJECTING GOD.

So, I stand by my statement that you have God in a little box

BECAUSE IT'S NOT DOCTRINE THAT SAVES US.
JESUS SAVES US.


Capisci?

What say you? What saves? Doctrine or Jesus?

(I don't offend easily either)

 

[Katy-follower]

Those who try to "add their own works" are non-believers as far as YOU are concerned?

As I said, two groups are constantly mentioned in the scriptures... those who have faith in the finished work of Jesus to save them (narrow road) & those who are trusting in their own works to save them (broad road).

Jesus is the only way. Nothing added.

It stuns me that some will stand before Jesus one day, saying "look at what I did for you" rather than "look what you did for me". Many have this thinking... they look to themselves and believe they must add to the finished work of Jesus.


Isaiah 64:6-7:

But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.
And there is no one who calls on Your name,
Who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us,
And have consumed us because of our iniquities.

 

[FranC]

And to not gossip about you Peter behind your back. What are you placing your trust in for salvation?

Here we go again.

Got God back in that box, huh?

 

[FranC]

Whats IOW?

Alter call for salvation I get, although I don't think it's necessary.
In our church we do give that call and as ask people to come forward, but also say you don't have to, you can do it where you are.

Either way we do encourage to them to speak to come and speak to those entrusted to then talk to them.

I get what you are saying and I wouldn't knock someone who keeps coming forward.
I just feel that if its apparent then it's time to come alongside and see what's going on.

You and you know who need to go to a class!
IOW
In Other Words.

I agree with all you've said above.

Of course we could be saved anywhere.

I was in my kitchen when Jesus introduced Himself.