Not By Works

[Stephen63]

From https://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html:

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"

Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.

This doesn't mean "perfect obedience", because in our fleshly bodies this is impossible.

Christian submission is about surrendering our will to Jesus Christ.

Jesus Himself was the perfect example in the garden, where He prayed, "not my will, but thine be done."

It makes no sense to claim that Jesus is King if we refuse to follow His lead & authority as Citizens of the Kingdom.

~disclaimer~: John MacArthur is definitely not my favorite teacher, but he does have this right.

 

[PeterJens]

there is so much arrogant junk in here, I do not have time to take apart. so, the big stuff-

you mean terrible thoughts and words like pointing out how YOU slander others, how YOU misrepresent what others say, how YOU claim folks say things they do not say, how YOU refuse to use the full Biblical definition of sin, how YOU misuse and at times misquote Scripture, and refuse to accept correction for doing so.......

and, this is a insincere attempt at an apology, as you stated that others have " terrible thoughts and words " while saying " my comments that insulted or upset". no " I apologize for the things listed above". wow just wow.

gb9 - Lol - You answer to suggesting there is a problem in approach is to say I am
wrong,
1 "slander others"
2 "misrepresent what others say"
3 "claim the say things they do not"
4 "refuse biblical definitions of sin"
5 "misuse and misquote scripture"
6 "refuse correction"

Now the above is actually a misrepresentation itself.
I declare an idea. I expound on why I believe it is true or not.
I present what some positions think of this idea and where I feel there are weaknesses.

Now your contribution is an illustration of the problem. You are attacking me personally,
putting "crimes" at my door without example, and then expecting me to do what?
Capitulate to your opinions as if they are being expressed or even just stop?

Is this how you correct someone? Take them behind the house and just beat them up?
Who is your example? The mafia.

I am still amazed at we are talking about this

Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
John 14:24

Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.
1 Tim 4:12

People with a rock hard heart only see opposition to their version of faith, and because it
is powerful, but there is literally nothing they can do because scripture supports their
opponents, it sets their teeth on edge, and so this post comes about.

Since coming to cc, it has always been the same, stand for the word and love, and someone
will invent some heinous crimes they can never pin one has done, then silence.

Hatred like this must come from somewhere, it is not because of what I am doing.

 

[Stephen63]

This study I find interesting.
Atheist have gone from training college into ministry while not being believers and
hidden this as if ministry has meaning within a christian context if you do not believe.

So it is no surprise that if you join these groups expecting to be taught about God
you hear about atheism instead in a christian wrapping.

This should never have been allowed to occur.

True. What folks don't realize is these people are usually Jesuits or Freemasons seeking to destroy Protestantism from within.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's funny how people want honesty and integrity, when they have non themselves,

Exactly what I was thinking....I have never seen him admit error one time ever........and like Adam and EVE....it is ALWAYS everybody else.....and their fault......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly what I was thinking....I have never seen him admit error one time ever........and like Adam and EVE....it is ALWAYS everybody else.....and their fault......

Yeah, and its to bad, they had him on a rant, and then peopl responded to him..

 

[PeterJens]

True. What folks don't realize is these people are usually Jesuits or Freemasons seeking to destroy Protestantism from within.

This reminds me of some arguments used against me about what it means to be saved,
and to lose ones fellowship with Jesus through unbelief.

I am thinking like men, a humanist. But the joke is they are being humanist.
Saul captured a king. He was a nice guy, let him live because God was just too harsh.

But Saul and the people spared Agag
1 Sam 15:9

I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice.
1 Sam 15:24

Now is it easier to say, all your sins are forgiven, God has saved you forever,
and when you feel like it, because he has forgiven you so much, walk in His ways.
And if you fail, do not worry, He knows how weak and feeble you are, it is ok.

Is this how God dealt with Saul and his fears? No.

Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
He also has rejected you from being king.
Sam 15:22-23

So unfortunately some are behaving in rebellion and stubbornness which is the same
as witchcraft, sin and idolatry.

How many know in their hearts the burning anger the Lord has against them for their
open rebellion? Where is the fear of the Lord or even respect for the sin they commit
in their own consciences and refuse to resolve?

Are they really believers or closet atheists?

 

[PeterJens]

True. What folks don't realize is these people are usually Jesuits or Freemasons seeking to destroy Protestantism from within.

What is stunning about certain people, is how even when sentences are written incorrectly, not
understood or responded to incorrectly, there is not even an acknowledgement of what clearly
happened, and if you point it out the post after the failure, it is like it does not exist.

My first encounter was to make a point that was coherent and straightforward to get a reply
on something not connected, but told a different slant as if the ideas where a response.

It kind of made sense, talk as if they are stupid and got it wrong and most cannot be bothered
to read the contents. It is though just propoganda, and fluff, which shows their fear and failure.

 

[Stephen63]

Ya know, it's been proven during Trump's campaigning & rallies there were protestors causing all kinds of mayhem to make Trump look bad, as wellas make it look like the public didn't want him.

It's really not so far-fetched to think there's people in the BDF doing similar things to sway public opinion on easy believism.

 

[PeterJens]

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 4:8

Wow, God is love, not God shows love, He is the source of what love is itself.

I remember being told I did not know love, because I did not have the same theology
as someone else. A very interesting proposition, because love is something that is within
someone, and you can just tell how they understand it from the outside.

John described it this way

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
1 John 4:20

So my friends, let us learn how to love each other and bear one anothers weaknesses.

 

[Ariel82]

Because there are some that claim that the "falling away" are sinful, religious people who never were saved.

Doesn't the post you quoted say there are some of those who fall away also? Some folks who were never saved along with folks who are saved and will eventually be called back by God?

 

[Ariel82]

Ya know, it's been proven during Trump's campaigning & rallies there were protestors causing all kinds of mayhem to make Trump look bad, as wellas make it look like the public didn't want him.

It's really not so far-fetched to think there's people in the BDF doing similar things to sway public opinion on easy believism.

I am against both easy believism which results in licentious permissiblity and legalistic works salvation that denies Jesus finished work on the cross for eternal life.

 

[Magenta]

Why do we describe sinners as "fallen men" of they can't fall away?

All of creation is fallen. We live in a fallen world, everything is affected by sin.

 

[Ariel82]

Or worse it is taught these were just the tares among wheat, but as oyu have already shown and the Bible teaches, God separates the tares and they are not given the luxury of simply falling away...


I do not understand why people wrestle against being everything for God they can....that is all this comes down to....doing your part...not to gain or keep salvation, but to be fruitful and make disciples...because when you do your part you want to abide with him and you will never fall away....that is eternal security....

A true Christian may never "fall away" as in lose their salvation but they may still fall short of God's glory and sin, because the world will try and break anyone who truly stands for God's truth.

The difference is that God's kids will repent and turn back to God when shown their sins. Everyone else will deny they ever sinned in the first place and continue to walk further and farther away from God.

 

[Ariel82]

All of creation is fallen. We live in a fallen world, everything is affected by sin.

But God gives us this hope:

Romans 8

18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21thath the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whoi have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[mailmandan]

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, BUT the wicked shall fall by calamity.

 

[FranC]

Now you lying & accusing me of something else I didn't do.

They didn't need my help.

Yous got lotsa powa Stephen63.

Yous can gits two gals a arguin' !!

WOWY

Oh. And I'm sorry.
I think I forgot to flirt with you.
Will make up for it in the future...

 

[Stephen63]

Doesn't the post you quoted say there are some of those who fall away also? Some folks who were never saved along with folks who are saved and will eventually be called back by God?

I didn't see that.
I suppose that religious hypocrites would be deluded within those churches that fall away. But they would be the exception, not the rule.

 

[PeterJens]

Thinking about salvation, was Saul saved?

Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord.
1 Sam 15:25

Maybe not, he asked for forgiveness but showed no repentance.
Samuel did not see Saul again.

 

[Magenta]

I could be wrong about inserting myself. I can admit it when I'm wrong. It's entirely possible.

Still, though, You insist you never said this, nor admit to it at all.

I would just come clean, cause it's only gonna get worse.

Nope, I continue to insist I never said that God's elect could be destroyed, I have not denied saying the rest of it, your complaint was about that part and you accused me based on that. There is a difference between saying people are TRYING to do something and that they can actually DO that something, and since I see you complaining about people twisting what others say perhaps you need to pay more attention yourself. Your misunderstanding is your responsibility. You could have a hundred reasons for whatever you assumed that caused you to insert yourself (perhaps it was simply your narcissism after all) , but your assumptions are your own. Go back and you will see that JIMBO's nasty response to Bill was what prompted what I said. You had nothing to do with it but you came at me with pistols blazing just the same and YOU are responsible for that, not I despite your claims of it being all my fault.

 

[Stephen63]

Yous got lotsa powa Stephen63.

Yous can gits two gals a arguin' !!

WOWY

Oh. And I'm sorry.
I think I forgot to flirt with you.
Will make up for it in the future...

Don't worry 'bout it..... my wife wouldn't like it anyway.