He came and saved me outside any church. What is this I wondered. He baptized me in the Holy Spirit, gave me the gift of tongues. What is this I wondered. That was forty years ago and the power of His Holy Spirit is undiminished. A thousand testimonies I have of things I've seen Him do by the power of His wonderful Holy Spirit.
Were you a believer before that moment or not? You wondered about it as my neighbor did when she had been a believer for most of her life when she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her, bringing tongues without interpretation which changed her testimony as to when she was saved. All she was doing was reading her Bible at the kitchen table when that had happened.
So like... by her testimony, she is pretty much saying if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved.
If your testimony is like hers... you were saved when you had first believed.
If you are the same poster that goes by the same name of Frank Lee in christianityboard.com that testified that you babbled on purpose for a bit before later on that gift of tongue came.....
Frank Lee said:
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I'd never heard of the Holy Spirit. Jesus saved me at our rural country place in the Ouachitas. I didn't know what saved was either since I did not go to church. Nevertheless He made me born again then He did the next thing. I saw a woman on TV talking about praying and speaking in some language she didn't know. Never heard of such thing. Praying and thinking of that woman, Shirley Boone, a thought said "maybe God would do that for you too".
So I just started making up words and then I didn't have to. He came and did it and I didn't know what it was until later as I read the Bible.
So if you are the same Frank Lee, then I have to discern that you were saved before that moment as my neighbor was, and whatever that was you had experienced, it could not have been of Him at all when Hewas already in you by faith in Jesus Christ when you had first come to & believed in Him.
Just saying because you were wondering about that moment.
You can try to fit your experience into scripture but tongues were never to serve as a sign towards believers as proof that they were saved.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Thanks for sharing the scripture but do discern with Him if you are applying them rightly.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues
Job 29:21 — Job 29:23 (NKJV)
“Men listened to me and waited,
And kept silence for my counsel.
After my words they did not speak again,
And my speech settled on them as dew.
They waited for me as for the rain,
And they opened their mouth wide as for the spring rain.
Job was speaking in a parable about himself; this is not God speaking about Himself. See the beginning...
Job 29:1Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;[SUP]3 [/SUP]When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;
Intercessory prayer in the spirit
Job 32:18 — Job 32:20 (NKJV)
For I am full of words;
The spirit within me compels me.
Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent;
It is ready to burst like new wineskins.
I will speak, that I may find relief;
I must open my lips and answer.
That was not about the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues or just plain speaking through Elihu when he said he is giving an opinion which is by his spirit; not the Holy Spirit.
Job 32:1So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Now Elihu had waited till Job had spoken, because they were elder than he.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, then his wrath was kindled.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.
Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Tongues that will speak TO people.
Zephaniah 3:9 KJVS
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.
Mark 16:17 KJVS
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Acts 1:8 KJVS
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
And how can they be witnesses unto the uttermost part of the earth when these are unlearned men? By speaking with God's gift of tongues of otehr men's lips to speak unto the people.
Acts 2:1-4 KJVS
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
They spoke by God's gift of tongues to other people in their native tongue if you read on from there.
Acts 19:1-7 KJVS
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[2] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[5] When they heard this , they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[7] And all the men were about twelve.
They were disciples of John the Baptist's when Paul found out by what water baptism they were under. Then Paul told them about Jesus Christ being the One that John the Baptist was preaching about. Then they got water baptized in Jesus;s name, meaning they believed in Him now.. and then they got the promise of the Holy Spirit and since they were out in public among other people along the way, they spoke in tongues as a sign towards unbelievers.
BUT they were not believers in Jesus Christ when Paul hapened upon them. They were just disciples of John the Baptist's.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 KJVS
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. [8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
That proves God's gft of tongues is to come with interpretation; it is not a stand alone gift to serve as a prayer language.
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and DO NOT FORBID speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:1*-5*, 18*-19*, 39 ESV
Paul gave the bottom line on tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 and that it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people as it is not to serve as a sign towards the believers for anything; tongues were to serve as a sign to unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP]21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
The Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself; He can only speak what He hears. therefore He cannot use God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people for His own personal use for praying.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV
praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
Ephesians 6:18 ESV
Jude 1:20 (NKJV)
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
Any one praying normally are praying in the Spirit. That is YOU praying; not the Holy Spirit.
Believers seeking to be open to receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation are certainly not praying IN the Spirit.
